How fast do *you* play Op 10 No 4 Chopin etude?

[alextryan]

I listen to Pollini blaze along at about 180 beats per minute, and then I start my metronome and tick down further and further till I hit around 108bpm, my current sweet spot.  Granted I just started learning it, but I doubt if I'll ever get it faster than 140bpm. 

So I challenge you, in a friendly way, to get out your metronome and figure out your own speed.  I'd like to know where the bulk of normal human beings land once they have this piece polished up. 

[thracozaag]

I listen to Pollini blaze along at about 180 beats per minute, and then I start my metronome and tick down further and further till I hit around 108bpm, my current sweet spot.  Granted I just started learning it, but I doubt if I'll ever get it faster than 140bpm. 

So I challenge you, in a friendly way, to get out your metronome and figure out your own speed.  I'd like to know where the bulk of normal human beings land once they have this piece polished up. 

  Listen to Richter's or Cziffra's, now that's blazing.

koji (STSD)

[mosis]

Richter's black and white video of doom slays all. If you want to see the sh*t taken out of that etude, watch it.

[allchopin]

Richter has nothing on Cziffra....

And Cziffra has nothing on Sinadinovic (He actually visited the forum in the distant past).  Check this out.

www.fmu.bg.ac.yu/sinadin/sound/mp3/subotica/subotica_chopin.mp3

[Spatula]

There's a level of speed in which I find acceptable.  For some reason I find I have a certain limit or thresh-hold if you will.

I've sped up Beethoven's Moonlight Nr 3 twice as fast using Finale Notepad, and it sounds like crap.  I've read up on C Changs book and our ears and brain can only interpret up to a certain tempo, and after that, it sounds like mush no matter how clear the notes are played even without the damper pedal.  And further more, I felt that performance was lacking in musical content simply because I'm more acustomed to a slower 150 MM tempo. 

I still have to praise Sinadinovic virtuoso skills though, lets see Liszt do that, or even Chopin himself. 

Hearing this is about the total opposite how I'd interpret if Idil Biret would play it, although I have yet to hear her recording. 

[jlh]

When I learned this piece, I had it going at about 152-160 bpm.  Of course, I'd only been playing the piano for 4 1/2 years at that point.  I've now been playing for about 12 years, so if I revisited that etude, it would probably be in better (and probably faster) condition.

It's one of my favorite etudes (I even won a competition with it once).

[thracozaag]

  I'm more of an articulation than speed-freak:

https://66.49.129.194/chopin-op10no4-attwood.mp3

koji (STSD)

[mosis]

Koji, were you using a lot of pedal in that recording?

[mosis]

Richter has nothing on Cziffra....

And Cziffra has nothing on Sinadinovic (He actually visited the forum in the distant past).  Check this out.

www.fmu.bg.ac.yu/sinadin/sound/mp3/subotica/subotica_chopin.mp3

OMFG

That is *** INSANITY. Wow, that was a great recording.

[goansongo]

  I'm more of an articulation than speed-freak:

https://66.49.129.194/chopin-op10no4-attwood.mp3

koji (STSD)

That's a pretty damn good recording...

[thracozaag]

Koji, were you using a lot of pedal in that recording?

  Actually, hardly any (it was recorded in a rather live hall, though).

koji (STSD)

[Antnee]

Even tough Sinadinovic plays it blazingly fast, I so much prefer Koji's recording. Articultaion is so much more critical than speed.  Sinadinovic's speed is good to  to exercise with and really get the etude aspect out of it, but for performance it is just much too fast.  A first time listener wouldn't be able to comprehend the piece well at that speed, and frankly, although it is amazing, I don't like all that much. Nice recording Koji...

[mh88]

I am in the same boat...I was playing about 150 bpm when I first learned this etude 2 years ago.  With work I could now play it a little faster, no where near Cziffra though...wow.

On a side note, Boris Berezovsky has his recording of the etudes out there and most of them are played with great reluctance, 10/4 is no excection.  However, the recordings are quite interesting to listen to as no other artist has released the etudes at less than acceptable speeds (to my knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong I'd like to listen to it).  His recording allows you to hear every single note and pattern, every little delicate feature of the songs, but this can be a little irritating at times becaues there are moments when you want to scream "speed up and play it right PLEAAAAAASE.  Off topic...his recording of 25/12 is unmatched.

[chromatickler]

Da SDC's official reply to dis topic:

Pollini 1'55
Gavrilov 1'43
Cziffra 1' 41
Sinadin live 1'40
Barere live -sounds like 1'38-1'42 judging from da 1minute sample
Richter live (from Enigma video) 1'31

So da fact is: Da Rectum OWNZ ALL. But da Ziff deserves special mention fo his random deceleration/accelerations. If he chose to play the piece at a strict tempo like everyone else he would probably match da Rectum. In certain parts (ie. the rh arpeggio + lh octave bit, the lh descending scale at the climax) where he chose to accelerate, Da Ziff is by far the fastest.

 

[Spatula]

  I'm more of an articulation than speed-freak:

https://66.49.129.194/chopin-op10no4-attwood.mp3

koji (STSD)

Link doesn't work

[thracozaag]

https://66.49.129.194/chopin-10-4-attwood.mp3


koji (STSD)

[alextryan]

Does anyone have the richter mp3 who'd be willing to (unofficially) post it on a web site or email it?  I keep hearing about this recording but can't find it any local libraries.   

[brewtality]

https://www.chopinmusic.net/sdc/viewtopic.php?t=8

 

[alextryan]

That video is unbelievable.  He makes it look so easy.  Thanks!

[legend]

that site is a superb resource for all things concerning remarkable feats of pianism

[allchopin]

That video appears to be sped up.. his actions don't look natural upon closer examination.  Maybe the conversion from reel to digital created a speed error (and it's always possible to change the pitch of the sound afterwards).  Also, I have an audio recording of Richter's 10/4 and it is slower than Cziffra's.

[legend]

you question richter's abilities?

i dont

[Spatula]

https://www.chopinmusic.net/sdc/viewtopic.php?t=8

 

After that I click on the https://glumolwiki.free.fr/richy/richter10.4-highres.avi link but it gives me a blank white page...I'm sad. 

wait never mind...it works!

[rohansahai]

That video appears to be sped up.. his actions don't look natural upon closer examination. Maybe the conversion from reel to digital created a speed error (and it's always possible to change the pitch of the sound afterwards). Also, I have an audio recording of Richter's 10/4 and it is slower than Cziffra's.

You took the words right out of my mouth! It does appear to be sped up, just the way he THROWS the hankerchief and at the end, removes his hand from the keyboard, it did appear quite mmmmmmmmm, unnatural so as to say.

[Spatula]

He looked kinda pisssssed when he threw he glove like that and wanted to send the piano to hell or something.

[f0bul0us]

He looked kinda pisssssed when he threw he glove like that and wanted to send the piano to hell or something.

Lol, good one =D

[kempff]

That video appears to be sped up.. his actions don't look natural upon closer examination.  Maybe the conversion from reel to digital created a speed error (and it's always possible to change the pitch of the sound afterwards).  Also, I have an audio recording of Richter's 10/4 and it is slower than Cziffra's.

OMG!!! You are questioning Richter's abilities? I would certainly rethink that.

[m]

Koji,

Does it ring a bell for you?

[thracozaag]

  Absolutely.  How's he doing?

koji (STSD)

[m]

  Absolutely.  How's he doing?

koji (STSD)

He is fine.
Check your PM.

[opus10no2]

that site is a superb resource for all things concerning remarkable feats of pianism

I must concur.

I'd add Wunder to this topic.

Can anyone actually BEAT Richter's time  with his degree of accuracy?

[jlh]

wow you just lazarus-ified this thread... 

[soliloquy]

MT's is randomly my fav for the eerie ending

As far as I know Richter's is the fastest though.

[franzliszt2]

Slow and steady wins the race

[opus10no2]

Slow and steady wins the race

haha Good one.

[elevateme_returns]

Richter has nothing on Cziffra....

And Cziffra has nothing on Sinadinovic (He actually visited the forum in the distant past).  Check this out.

www.fmu.bg.ac.yu/sinadin/sound/mp3/subotica/subotica_chopin.mp3

thats very lovely, and lightning fast!

but - its not crisp, and its not musical . i hear a blur, of wrong and right notes. i dont hear the music!