Schumann

[ventus]

I'm wondering why so many people don't like Schumann's music and call it boring?

I personally find his music very beautiful and unique...

If you like or dislike his music, please say why...

[blazekenny]

I am definitely not a Schumann fan, although I admire him alot. He also wrote many pieces I love, like Carnaval or Arebeske.
Compositionally, he was a top notch composer, but I find his writing boring in therms of the piano writing. His ornamentation and you know, the stuff which supplies the melody etc is awkward to me

[mjames]

Imo, Schumann's large scale works don't "flow" properly...I don't know how to explain it. I can understand the dislike. First work I ever listened to was piano concerto and it sooooooooo repetitive and boring.

BUT, I love his piano cycles(set of miniatures) and variations. I believe that's where his talent was. Stuff like the Carnival, Dances of the league of David, Pieces from Childhood, symphonic etudes, ghostly variations, and romances etc...stuff like that are really amazing.

[j_menz]

I'm wondering why so many people don't like Schumann's music and call it boring?

Assuming you mean Bobby (rather than Clara).

Answer: Cloth ears!

Personally, I'm a fan.

[dima_76557]

I'm wondering why so many people don't like Schumann's music and call it boring?

I personally find his music very beautiful and unique...

If you like or dislike his music, please say why...

I think it may depend on who is playing. For Schumann (and for many other composers too), give me Sviatoslav Richter and no one else. One can never actually say that one hates this or that music because one may not have heard the "perfect" version yet.

Glen Gould, for example, was the most fervent Schubert hater you can imagine. Still, when that same Sviatoslav Richter played one of Schubert's longest sonatas, Glen Gould sat on the edge of his chair for the whole hour it lasted, not to run away from the concert, but because Richter managed to convince him that there was beautiful music inside, notwithstanding the length of the piece.

When Richter started playing some little pieces by Ravel, the great Artur Rubinstein felt tears running down his face, emotions he had never experienced before while playing the music himself or while listening to those pieces by others.

[thalbergmad]

I think it may depend on who is playing.

I don't think so, as it is impossible to polish a turd. No pianist is good enough to extract emotion from his uninteresting piano works.

His biggest crime against music is that feeble Piano Concerto.

Thal

[redbaron]

With the exception of the Piano Concerto, the Toccata and Eintritt, I find his music unengaging and for the most part melodically unmemorable. I also think it's very awkward and unpianistic to play.

[dima_76557]

With the exception of the Piano Concerto, the Toccata and Eintritt, I find his music unengaging and for the most part melodically unmemorable.

Even the "Introduction and Allegro Appassionato for Piano and Orchestra in G major, Op 92"? I can hardly believe that.

[dima_76557]

I think it may depend on who is playing. For Schumann (and for many other composers too), give me Sviatoslav Richter and no one else.

Correction: I think forum member marik1 made a VERY good case in favor of Schumann in his rendition of the Symphonic Etudes:
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=52132.0

[ventus]

I don't think so, as it is impossible to polish a turd. No pianist is good enough to extract emotion from his uninteresting piano works.

His biggest crime against music is that feeble Piano Concerto.

Thal

And yet his piano concerto was Gilels favourite piano concerto...

So I think we'll have to agree that it's matter of personal taste when you say "biggest crime" and that "biggest crime" is someone's favourite concerto, especially when that someone is Gilels.

[ale_ius]

The scores are perfect, I had once a a piano bench with wobbles because of unevens floor.  I put R. Schumann scores under right rears leg of bench.  No more wobble.  Just perfect and where belongs.  Sometimes if need to sit higher too and cannot adjusts seat,  I place on bench under my tushy, works very wells there too.

---Alee Marie.

[thalbergmad]

What an excellent use for Schumann scores.

I always keep a few sheets in the toilet just in case.

Thal

[pianoman53]

What an excellent use for Schumann scores.

I always keep a few sheets in the toilet just in case.

Thal

Why don't you get a job?

[thalbergmad]

I have got a job. I am there now.

Thal

[pianoman53]

I have got a job. I am there now.

Thal

Aha. Cool. I'm sure you contribute much in life.

[thalbergmad]

I'm sure you contribute much in life.

I am satisfied with my output and care nothing for what others may think.

Thal

[gvans]

I...care nothing for what others may think.

Thal

Hmmmm. Your 14,000+ posts on Piano Street say otherwise. Or perhaps you only care for what you think, and wish to broadcast that everywhere, ignoring the rest of the world, in a sort of intellectual imperialism.

There are composers I like less than others. Some speak to me, some don't. There is no value in speaking ill about the ones that don't move me. If others like them, great. No need to disparage their judgment. Different music moves different people differently.  

[wwalrus]

I don't think so, as it is impossible to polish a turd. No pianist is good enough to extract emotion from his uninteresting piano works.

His biggest crime against music is that feeble Piano Concerto.

Thal

We've seen you bash Schumann quite a lot, although you haven't actually given any reasoning. Don't respond with "no reasoning needs to be given" as a deflection. Actually support your argument and you might be taken seriously.
About the concerto, if you actually compare it to Grieg's concerto, they're quite similar in form- in case you're not aware, Grieg's was modeled after Schumann's. In fact, I think it's quite uninformed to say that it's repetitive- the main theme repeats just as much as the main theme does in Grieg's.

[dima_76557]

Don't respond with "no reasoning needs to be given" as a deflection.

Actually, no reasoning really needs to be given, because we are talking about TASTE and difference in knowledge, perception. That's why "Like/Dislike" buttons exist, because otherwise the one with the best debating qualities would always be "right", and that is simply not the case. Even if Thalbergmad can point you to the objectively weak points in works by Schumann, it won't make a difference for your taste. Since Thalbergmad criticized Schumann and not you and your taste, please respect his taste as much as he respects yours.

[pianoman53]

and care nothing for what others may think.

Thal

Well, obviously. If  you'd care what people think, you probably wouldn't think anymore, so to say...

[wwalrus]

Dima, you're right. I hadn't thought about that.

However, based on your post, that still leaves room for the lack of awareness about what in Schumann's music makes it beautiful- which could apply to both those who like him, and those who hate him.

[dima_76557]

However, based on your post, that still leaves room for the lack of awareness about what in Schumann's music makes it beautiful- which could apply to both those who like him, and those who hate him.

Trying to convince with the best of arguments still wouldn't be enough to convert those who "hate" Schumann. The only thing that could work with time is forced exposure with no way out, but I suspect that would be too cruel a punishment for some.

[thalbergmad]

There is no value in speaking ill about the ones that don't move me.

Different people think differently. I am hardly on my own in disliking Schumann.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

We've seen you bash Schumann quite a lot, although you haven't actually given any reasoning. Don't respond with "no reasoning needs to be given" as a deflection. Actually support your argument and you might be taken seriously.
About the concerto, if you actually compare it to Grieg's concerto, they're quite similar in form- in case you're not aware, Grieg's was modeled after Schumann's. In fact, I think it's quite uninformed to say that it's repetitive- the main theme repeats just as much as the main theme does in Grieg's.

I have bashed Schumann a lot and will continue to do so. I have given reasons in the past and have no desire to repeat myself. I have absolutely no wish to be taken seriously.

Thanks for enlightening me re the Grieg/Schumann. I know nothing about piano concertos.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Even if Thalbergmad can point you to the objectively weak points in works by Schumann, it won't make a difference for your taste. Since Thalbergmad criticized Schumann and not you and your taste, please respect his taste as much as he respects yours.

Well said.

Thal

[carpbear]

I really think it's a matter of individual taste and temperament. 

Schumann is a difficult composer to pull off -- but I believe Schumann is well worth the investment of time taken to learn and polish his music.

Personally, speaking as a composer and a pianist, I strongly relate to Schumann's brand of Romanticism.  I'm drawn to his use of canons, fughettas, counterpoint and the everpresent sense of structure; and I think only Liszt is Schumann's equal for being able to draw out a cadence to the very last possible moment - and then resolve it. 

Many of the accompaniments to his songs and chamber music are absolutely breathtaking. 

But Schumann is definitely not everybody's cup of tea. 

[thalbergmad]

I strongly relate to Schumann's brand of Romanticism

I don't consider him to be romantic. Restrained romantic possibly, but not melodic or powerful enough to be considered romantic. Never really let himself go.

Thal

[worov]

Even if Thalbergmad can point you to the objectively weak points in works by Schumann, it won't make a difference for your taste. Since Thalbergmad criticized Schumann and not you and your taste, please respect his taste as much as he respects yours. Smiley

Well, taste isn't everything. There is good taste and bad taste. Some people like McDonald's food. I can't say they have good taste. But I don't think that's the case of Thal.

Thal, if you want to listen some melodic Schumann, try this :

[thalbergmad]

No thanks, I have reached my limit for the decade.

No more wasting time listening to Schumann.

Thal

[pjaul]

I have only listened to bits and pieces of Schumann's output -- some I have felt neutral about and some I absolutely love.  I adore Kreisleriana, particularly the second "movement."  There are phrases in the second movement where there are these counterpoint lines running up and down the scale (sometimes contrary, sometimes parallel) that give me the chills.  I really relate emotionally to Kreisleriana.