@pianoslav: George Carlin would be proud.
1) Praise "everything" is an extreme, and extremes are never really productive.
2) If "teaching" involves nothing else but giving repertoire and "correcting mistakes" in the next lesson, then that is not good teaching.
3) A really COMPETENT teacher (a rare breed, I admit) works not only on repertoire, but also helps the students to get contact with themselves, with their bodies, a quality that is indispensable to become a true artist. Besides, the teacher does that according to a plan he/she has in mind, tailored to the needs of that particular student, step by step. In this incredibly difficult process for both the giving and the receiving party, positive reinforcement (the use of praise where it is appropriate) is one of the most powerful tools for shaping or changing the student's behavior, just as it is in dog training. For a trick that was done well, you praise the dog. Now, if you give a dog tricks to do that it can't really do or is not ready to do yet, what do you suggest, punishment maybe?
@ pianoslavWhat I wrote was not meant to criticize YOU. It was a "happy student's view" of what good teaching is and what role "praise" plays on the way to success, but since you don't seem to like students talking back, I'll just keep silent, OK?
@ pianoslav
So your "happy student's view" just coincidentally quoted phrases from my post and misrepresented them?
and what about this:That must be in reference to the other pianoslav in this post.
You must hold the line that a teacher may not criticize a student if you react like this.
It breaks my heart to see ignorant comments like "young people have too much self esteem in these days, they are terrible to deal with yada yada yada". The world would be a MUCH better place today if generation after generation had not nurtured this idea, that youths should be taken down in order to become "bearable".
We were shocked, and he had to ask the teacher why he did not get more, as he had been doing all the moments. "Yes," she said, "but I don't think you seem to pay enough attention when I talk".So, that stupid cow had no idea what ADHD means.
Many little kids go to their first school day filled with happy anticipation, with shining eyes, so eager to discover, to learn, to grow. A few years later they struggle with motivation, with self esteem, with the constant, nagging idea of not being good enough. How come?
Two years ago we feared he would end up committing suicide because his self esteem was practically non-existent.
People don't commit suicide because of low self-esteem. People commit suicide due to social isolation, i.e. no friends.
Social pressure. They become self-aware and realize they are pigs controlled in a pen so herd mentality kicks in - don't be different, don't draw attention. This does not happen in every school, however. The schools that integrate teachers and students probably don't see this simply because students have social guidance.People don't commit suicide because of low self-esteem. People commit suicide due to social isolation, i.e. no friends.
Aren't we presumptuous? I'd normally say experience it yourself before talking about it, but with suicide it's kind of hard, eh?I'm sure people have committed suicide for both reasons among many others.
positive reinforcement (the use of praise where it is appropriate) is one of the most powerful tools for shaping or changing the student's behavior, just as it is in dog training. For a trick that was done well, you praise the dog. Now, if you give a dog tricks to do that it can't really do or is not ready to do yet, what do you suggest, punishment maybe?
I learned to play piano in the Russian school where the role of the teacher was very simple: teaching the students to play the instrument at the highest possible level. This didn't involve any elaborate relationships with the students or special approaches. I would get an assignment, go home and work on it, and come back to the lesson where the teacher would correct any mistakes. As a teacher now, I find it very hard to understand why the teacher has to be the students' best friend or be their motivator. When did criticism of mistakes turn into the teacher giving students physical prizes such as candy? As a student, neither me nor any of my peers would ever take criticism of our mistakes personally. Why does a teacher have to praise a student for a sloppy performance in order to keep them motivated? If a student begins to dislike piano after a little constructive criticism, maybe the student never liked playing piano to begin with. If they enjoy playing piano, they will want criticism to improve their playing. Maybe the student who no longer enjoys piano after the teacher corrects their mistakes was only taking piano lessons because of all the praise the teacher would give them for tripping over the keys rather than the joy of making music. In my opinion the praise everything mentality is a just another way we are spoiling our next generation. You can't improve your skills at something if you don't know what to fix and get showered with praise. Don't get me wrong, I am not encouraging physical punishment or yelling at the mis-performing students, but I believe that the teacher who buddies-up with the student and praises everything is doing them a great disservice.
#cue the outrage at my treating students the same way I would a dog... kind of...
Yes - its really good to know what you're doing right - and what you need work on.But even if a person if not 'doing it right' and they are doing it better -shouldn't that be noticed?
Well, you do have to make them learn to sit
Speaking as a dog trainer (or at least the husband of one) -In the beginning, we have the "teaching" phase...Then comes "training"...Lastly, "proofing"...
. If you try behaviorism, you'll get resentment from both dogs and humans because both are emotionally-based animals. This is why attempting behaviorism in schools doesn't work to change negative behavior, only displaces that negative behavior into some other manifestation. The best way to change behavior is through positive social reinforcement since it not only elicits the desired behavioral change, but it also integrates the outcast into the group.
This type of training comes from the psychological literature on learning based on BF Skinner's work. It works well for simple stimuli with food rewards. However, the work on rats is not entirely applicable to either dogs or humans because of the emotional component that Skinner did not even address. If you try behaviorism, you'll get resentment from both dogs and humans because both are emotionally-based animals. This is why attempting behaviorism in schools doesn't work to change negative behavior, only displaces that negative behavior into some other manifestation. The best way to change behavior is through positive social reinforcement since it not only elicits the desired behavioral change, but it also integrates the outcast into the group.
Behaviorism is still present in schools. That's what I see, and those schools have better behaved students. Constructivism sounds great, but in reality you get kids that don't adjust or just don't care. Some of them need to be knocked off their feet. It also allows one kids to spoil things for everyone else. Behaviorism might produce resentment but if things are better overall...
the post above is heavily simplified so far as how one would apply it to a human and warrants much elaboration on rewards and punishments and how when what to do..that process is also not something you use as a method for behavioral adjustments such as where dogs (or humans) have behaviours exhibited as a result of emotional response.. aggression due to anxiety or fear for example etc. it plays a part but its hardly the whole picture..in its simple form above its just how you teach a dog basic commands when they are in a stable emotional state.. or more complex commands by linking together a series of simple ones.
I might add that this type of teaching to be effective requires one-to-one long term interaction and consistency, which can happen in private teaching or in family settings, but not in schools.
Whatever reward and punishment system is used in schools will always be arbitrary and often timed incorrectly so it would not work.
My experience is that learning to train animals has been extremely useful in learning to deal with people
I would not agree. Behavior (and that's intended as a broad term encompassing everything, not just misbehavior) is always shaped by reward and punishment, external and internal.
- A student needs feedback on what s/he is doing right and wrong - how to do things - practical things that the student needs- The feedback that says "This is correct" "This is close" "This thing that you are doing is giving good result x" may be a "positive" feedback, but above all it is informative and useful. The student can do something with it.- The feedback that says "This is not correct - it is not going in the right direction" (so the student can adjust), "This incorrect thing is causing this problem to happen" - "You have this error, which is caused by x, which you can correct by doing Y" - this may be seen as "negative", but in fact it also is informative and useful.
The best and most complete answer resides in the post of momopi. It contains everything.
Except she took six lessons with a nutcase. I'd have demanded my money back after the first one.
I am interested in the specific things she said helped her and were useful. This should be useful information for teachers. It is spot on.