Chopin Ballades compared to Beethoven Sonatas

[jorley]

Hi! I have seen at many different rankings of the Beethoven Sonatas, and I was wondering, where would one put the Chopin ballades in these lists? If this is an example of a list of Beethoven sonatas for example:

1 - Op 49#2
2 - Op 49#1
3 - Op 79
4 - Op 14#1
5 - Op 2#1
6 - Op 10#1
7 - Op 14#2
8 - Op 10#2
9 - Op 54
10 - Op 13
11 - Op 26
12 - Op 27#2
13 - Op 28
14 - Op 31#3
15 - Op 78
16 - Op 31#2
17 - Op. 22
18 - Op 2#3
19 - Op 2#2
20 - Op 90
21 - Op 31#1
22 - Op 10#3
23 - Op 27#1
24 - Op 7
25 - Op 110
26 - Op 57
27 - Op 109
28 - Op 81a
29 - Op 53
30 - Op 111
31 - Op 101
32 - Op 106

Where would the Chopin ballades fall in at that list? I thought maybe something like this:


1 - Op 49#2
2 - Op 49#1
3 - Op 79
4 - Op 14#1
5 - Op 2#1
6 - Op 10#1
7 - Op 14#2
8 - Op 10#2
9 - Op 54
10 - Op 13
11 - Op 26
12 - Op 27#2
13 - Op 28
14 - Op 31#3
15 - Op 78
16 - Op 31#2
17 - Op. 22
18 - Op 2#3
19 - Op 2#2
20 - Op 90
21 - Op 31#1
3rd Ballade Op 47
22 - Op 10#3
23 - Op 27#1
1st Ballade Op 23
24 - Op 7
2nd Ballade Op 38
25 - Op 110
26 - Op 57
27 - Op 109
28 - Op 81a
29 - Op 53
4th Ballade Op 54
30 - Op 111
31 - Op 101
32 - Op 106

Does that look right?

[awesom_o]

Not at all. The styles of the two composers are too different to compare in this way.  It is completely meaningless to compose silly lists in this manner.  Much better to spend your time playing all of that music instead!

[david456103]

i personally find op 53(at least mvmt 3) harder technically than ballade #4, and maybe slightly easier musically. but considering op 53 has another 2 mvmts, i would say it is harder overall.

[4greatkeyboards]

Chopin did not like or play Beethoven. Before his concerts (few) he would warm up by playing Bach or Mozart.

I would rank Chopin's Ballads, all above Beethoven's Sonatas. I personally like Ballad 1 first and No. 4 second. That said I still play, in my repertoire, Beethoven's Sonatas and the Ballads. Vladimir Horowitz once said " Beethoven did not know the piano as well as Chopin", and I agree.

But I believe Beethoven surpassed Chopin, musically, in his larger works like his symphonies. Keep in mind Chopin died at age 36, like Mozart,  whereas Beethoven had a long life.

[pianoman53]

I would rank Chopin's Ballads, all above Beethoven's Sonatas. I personally like Ballad 1 first and No. 4 second. That said I still play, in my repertoire, Beethoven's Sonatas and the Ballads. Vladimir Horowitz once said " Beethoven did not know the piano as well as Chopin", and I agree.

But I believe Beethoven surpassed Chopin, musically, in his larger works like his symphonies. Keep in mind Chopin died at age 36, like Mozart,  whereas Beethoven had a long life.

To say that all Beethoven is easier than Chopin ballades is simply ignorant. It's not even an opinion, because it's simply too stupid. It's like "In my opinion, 1+1=7."

And why do you think Chopin "knew" the piano better than beethoven? Is it because the piano were under major development during (and because of) Beethoven? Is it because Beethoven didn't have any great examples on how to write great piano music?

Yes, Beethoven had a longer life, but he was also death most of it. That means, he wrote most of his major works while he couldn't hear them.

Beethoven's piano sonatas are so incredibly ahead of his time, so to say that they are easier than Chopin's music is just... aaagh! This is probably the first time I'm getting upset by a post here.

Yes, Chopin wrote beautiful and deep music. But Beethoven wrote music that's beyond everything we can understand.

[beebert]

Doubtful about the list. I think that Ballade 1 is harder technically than Op 7 and about as difficult as the Op 110. Though I don't even agree with the Beethoven Sonata rankings so...

[tdawe]

It's also fairly futile to compare a 45 minute sonata to a 10 minute ballade.

[pianoplunker]

Hi! I have seen at many different rankings of the Beethoven Sonatas, and I was wondering, where would one put the Chopin ballades in these lists? If this is an example of a list of Beethoven sonatas for example:

1 - Op 49#2
2 - Op 49#1
3 - Op 79
4 - Op 14#1
5 - Op 2#1
6 - Op 10#1
7 - Op 14#2
8 - Op 10#2
9 - Op 54
10 - Op 13
11 - Op 26
12 - Op 27#2
13 - Op 28
14 - Op 31#3
15 - Op 78
16 - Op 31#2
17 - Op. 22
18 - Op 2#3
19 - Op 2#2
20 - Op 90
21 - Op 31#1
22 - Op 10#3
23 - Op 27#1
24 - Op 7
25 - Op 110
26 - Op 57
27 - Op 109
28 - Op 81a
29 - Op 53
30 - Op 111
31 - Op 101
32 - Op 106

Where would the Chopin ballades fall in at that list? I thought maybe something like this:


1 - Op 49#2
2 - Op 49#1
3 - Op 79
4 - Op 14#1
5 - Op 2#1
6 - Op 10#1
7 - Op 14#2
8 - Op 10#2
9 - Op 54
10 - Op 13
11 - Op 26
12 - Op 27#2
13 - Op 28
14 - Op 31#3
15 - Op 78
16 - Op 31#2
17 - Op. 22
18 - Op 2#3
19 - Op 2#2
20 - Op 90
21 - Op 31#1
3rd Ballade Op 47
22 - Op 10#3
23 - Op 27#1
1st Ballade Op 23
24 - Op 7
2nd Ballade Op 38
25 - Op 110
26 - Op 57
27 - Op 109
28 - Op 81a
29 - Op 53
4th Ballade Op 54
30 - Op 111
31 - Op 101
32 - Op 106

Does that look right?

Why compare a Sonata to a Ballade ?  They have totally different formats.  Might as well compare a jazz trio to a four piece rock band

[mjames]

Can't believe people are actually giving this thread the attention it doesn't deserve.

[kitty on the keys]

I agree with awesom_e & pianoman!!!!

Kitty on the Keys!!!!

[hbofinger]

I always considered myself Beethoven and Schubert, though maturity shows that even they are very different. Then, as I approach the ballades, they are a whole thing  onto themselves. I am German, yet I cannot pass judgement comparing, ranking, or preferring. I agree with the first reply - spend more time learning, and less time ranking. I say they are all masters, in their own right. And one should  not have Chopin's judgement of Beethoven, or Beethoven's judgement of his great admirer Schubert (it was not enthusiastic) get in one's way.

[beebert]

I think that OP is wondering about technical difficulty, not how "great" the pieces are... I simply think that his question is how hard the ballades are technically compared to the Beethoven sonatas.

[awesom_o]

But the technical difficulty of a work always lies in getting the greatness out of the music.... regardless of which composer wrote the music originally.

To play a great work and butcher it musically does not mean anything....except that our supposed 'pianist' is in fact a butcher instead of an artist.

This is why I strongly object to childish lists ranking and comparing pieces in terms of their supposed 'difficulty'