How would you evaluate me

[mani8463]

Hello and thanks for reading this,

I'm 29 years old and I have started playing piano since 2 and a half years ago,
I have learned to play 2 walts by Chopin (easy ones I think), Bach 2 part inventions n. 1, 8, 9, 13 and 3 part inventions n. 6 and 10 (I played n.10 and a walts by Chopin, in a very tiny concert for 70 people, do you even call that a concert? lol) and right now I am working on prelude and fugue n.10 of Bach and moonlight sonata first movement by beethoven. Also I have learned to play the last nocturne of Chopin (21st), and a serenade from Schubert.
I also need to mention that I have a digital piano and not an acoustic one.
Where I live, I don't know of any grading systems to know what my grade is, and since I only attend a private piano class and have no musical academic education I don't know where I stand.
So I thought I'd post here and know other people's opinons on this. Has my progress been satisfactory in 2 and a half years? In the tiny live performance that I mentioned above, I felt so nervous but in the end the result was not bad, but eversince I have lost my hope in the whole thing. And now I feel like I should make up my mind whether I should continue learning piano or give up the whole thing. I appreciate any opinions on this.
This is me playing Bach 3 part invention n. 10:

And this is the walts of Chopin I mentioned above:

Thanks

[hfmadopter]

Everyone is in such a rush these days, I just don't understand it. Piano and especially music is a life long experience and there are methods out there that work where you can make reasonable progress over what ever amount of time it takes.  Maybe it is because so many try and get by without a proper teacher early on to get them on course , so to speak.

2 1/2 years is nothing in the big scope of things and now you think you should quit. Why ? I think you should back up a bit and get more in line with where your level is actually at or potentially at in that time period, then move up from there. You've taken on work that is actually beyond your skill level. Yes you can do the notes but you need more technique to make it sound as it should. You passed by those building blocks.

You can look right here at piano street for what the standard is for the pieces you are playing. Just look it up in the tabs under piano music , find the composer and then the piece. They have level standards written there that gives a rough idea of the skill level involved to get them up to that standard. However, because you do the piece doesn't mean you have attained that level of expertise.

[mani8463]

Thanks for your quick response, I totally agree with you, I know I have many technical errors that I make while playing, like how I should sit and how I should touch the keys etc, it's mostly my teacher who is in a rush, I know I don't have the experise to play the songs that I play right now, and it's practice over a long period of time that makes a pianist better and better. Maybe it's also this rush that has taken the hope away from me, again I might have not chosen the best piano instructor out there.
Anyway thanks again for your input

[hfmadopter]

Thanks for your quick response, I totally agree with you, I know I have many technical errors that I make while playing, like how I should sit and how I should touch the keys etc, it's mostly my teacher who is in a rush, I know I don't have the experise to play the songs that I play right now, and it's practice over a long period of time that makes a pianist better and better. Maybe it's also this rush that has taken the hope away from me, again I might have not chosen the best piano instructor out there.
Anyway thanks again for your input

It is a fact that really good piano instruction is not always available right away. I certainly don't mean to be throwing more of a damper on your will to play.

Don't get discouraged, instead become your own advocate ! It is an accomplishment in itself just to get through the level pieces you are doing. Take the good from that, look to the positive and improve on what is weak in it. Start with technique. I really suggest that you back up a bit though and really learn what is back there very well.

Incidentally, playing in front of 70 people is not a small thing. All you need is just one person who isn't on board with you and the pressure is on or can be.

Hopefully some others will reply too. There are a lot of helpful people here !

[mani8463]

You're absolutely right, had i not this instructor I would have put my time on practising easier pieces that would be more appropriate to my real level in piano, and as you say I try to be positive too. It's ok as long as I just want to play for myself or for friends and family. But when it comes to playing and performing live in front of peopl, like you said even in front of 70 people, that's something else.
Add to that, in 3 months my instructor expects me to play Bach's fugue and beethoven's moonlight Sonata in front of 300 people. even at the thought of it I want to commit suicide. And I mean it... last concert (and the only one I've had so far) was bad enough. I keep telling him a person(me for instance) should play songs he feels ok playing, not try playing the most difficult songs for his level (sometimes even too difficult). But he keeps telling me that I can do it... I wish you could talk my instructor out of the idea of this concert.
Like you advised me, I am trying to see the positive side, but playing in front of 300 people, live, really makes me wish I were never a pianist, that's another reason why I think I should quit, I mean if I can't do now I will probabely never do it in the future, as the path of the pianist is always filled with these stressful moments before concert, and apparently I don't have the capabilities to cope with this stress.

[outin]

Makes me wonder if your teacher is using you as a showcase for exceptionally fast progress? Do not get discouraged, but be firm with the teacher, because this approach might give you many regrets later. If YOU feel you want to work on lower level pieces then that is what should be done. After only 2,5 years this is not avoiding challenge, it's just common sense.

I assume you are paying for lessons? Then you are the customer and you must not let your teacher bully you.

There was much good in your playing, so do not think of quitting. Quite an achievement to play for such an audience!

[j_menz]

Mani,

Your progress is fine for 2 1/2 years.  Better than most.

Don't expect to have the full control yet to play these pieces as perfectly as you want - that will take more time. Be reassured that you can spot the gap.

Your progress and current level are no reason to feel discouraged, or to give up. Indeed, the only reason to give up (ever) is if you have lost the joy of it.

[faulty_damper]

I can tell that you don't practice much, both by listening and by seeing.  Tempo is all over the place with lots of small hesitations.  Visually, your fingers lack a lot of control, which is why they flail around in the air or held in awkward positions instead of relaxed.  These are technical issues that would greatly improve if you practiced a lot more.

Musically, you don't hear very well which indicates you dont' listen to much music.  I suggest actively listening to a lot of music.  Active listening means really listening to all the minute details the performer does that adds to the character of the music. 

I disagree that it's fine for 2.5 years.  The quality, imo, is something that can be achieved in 6 months, not 2.5 years.  However, both instruction and practice time are the culprit.  Fix or amend both and you'll be a lot better a lot sooner.

[outin]

I think the OP can safely ignore the previous poster. He's informed us that he is special so he probably is not the best to judge normal people...

The quality of the playing may not be what is expected with those pieces, but those pieces are also not what is expected to be played in a qualified way after such a time of study.

[j_menz]

These are technical issues that would greatly improve if you practiced a lot more.

Remember, practice makes perfect the way you practice.  Practice does not make perfect.
Eat a jelly belly when you need energy.

Make up your mind. 

As to the rest, presumptuous nonsense. Methinks you project greater talents onto your earlier self than is warranted.

[hfmadopter]

Make up your mind. 

As to the rest, presumptuous nonsense. Methinks you project greater talents onto your earlier self than is warranted.

You guys don't know how close I came to telling Faulty to switch from jelly bellies to white raisins and he could be the next Horowitz ..

Doesn't help our OP situation either. I still think he needs to back up a notch, fill in the gaps back there and then move back up to this level work. To me he is not ready for this level yet but will be with good instruction. It's a lot to expect from a person in 2 1/2 years to do this work and to also go on to perform it in front of 300 people. I might have been able to do the crowd depending on the situation ( class recital or some such thing) in that time frame but playing appropriate work for my time invested, maybe an easier prelude or some level 3 and 4 work is where I was at personally in the 2 year level. Not level 7 work for sure. I didn't hit that until later on. not that we should guage his work according how we progressed ourselves either but he is feeling far too much pressure and I can understand why !

[dima_76557]

@ mani8463

What a sad thread you created! From what you write, it seems to me that your "teacher" is (ab)using you as a vehicle to show off his own "qualities" at any cost. He is putting far too much of the wrong kind of pressure upon you. This is NOT good for you. My advice to you: find another one.

P.S.: You have no reason at all to be discouraged. You just need to find a qualified instructor who can approach your development from different angles to gradually get you where you want to be.

[keypeg]

When you learn to play an instrument, the idea is not to be given music that becomes increasingly hard, while as a student you figure out how to produce that music as you practice.  You should be given skills and knowledge about music as you go along, approaches to practising and so on.  All these things go together.  My impression is that you are not being taught properly and that you are being rushed.  If so, then the struggles you are having don't reflect a lack of ability that you have, but what you have not been taught.

[mani8463]

@outin: Thank you for you input, he is like that, he has another student, an eleven year old (I think) who plays fur elize after 3 years, and he considers the child one of his best students.
@j_menz: you're right, the only thing that discourages me right now is the fear of my failure in the upcoming live performance that I am going to have in 3 or 4 months, other than that I enjoy playin piano and learning new songs, I especially love playing Bach,
@faulty_damper: you're right, I practice for no more than 3 hours each day, but I only practice the songs that my instructor asks me to, that is something between 4 to 6 songs(some are etudes and some are pieces), and given that they are all chosen by him and there are some that I don't like playing -but he keeps telling me that as a pianist I should play different songs from different eras- and it is really hard for me to practice more than 3 hours the same songs, sometimes I enjoy practising, especially when it comes to Bach, but when it came to for instance Nocturne 21 of Chopin I get bored very fast, and I have to keep forcing myself to continue. And about listening to music, I used to listen a lot, but since I have decided to start listening only to songs that I rightfully own(I'm talking about copyright here) and they are very few (lol) I nearly stopped listening to music, but I've started buying albums lately and I will definitely work on this, thanks for your advice.
@hfmadobpter and dima_ogorodniko: you're right both, but where I live it's hard to find good teachers, and many good teachers I have seen don't work with me because I don't have an acoustic piano at home, and this one was an exception, he is ok with me practising on a digital piano. I will definitely change my instructor if given the chance, and if I find a better instructor.
@keypeg: omg you just spoke my heart, I even think I would practice more if the etudes and pieces were easier

[gyzzzmo]

Couple of things: Keep on practising, try to recognize your weaknesses and work on them, keep on challenging yourself by doing different and slightly harder pieces, and get yourself a teacher who helps you with this and on the musical part.

It doesnt matter if you progress fast or not, just keep having fun playing the piano and dont let anything discourage yourself.

Gyzzzmo

[piano4kay]

Keep playing! Just find a different teacher.  I've been playing just under four years, and have been through several teachers.  It amazes me how incompetent and lazy some teachers can be. My first teacher was very lazy and had no business teaching adult students.  I wasted a year with her.  She never provided me with music.  I would select my music from the pile next to our piano based on how easy it looked.  In the short time I have been playing, I have developed a simple sense of what piano teaching literature is.  It would seem more appropriate for your teacher to have assigned the Short Preludes...or even the Notebook for Anna Magdalena.  I purchased the book The Pianist's Guide to Standard Teaching and Performance Literature by Jane Magrath.  It has been very helpful in guiding me what music I should be working on in order to progress. 

[keypeg]

In this case it is without a doubt the teaching you are receiving - or more precisely - that you are not receiving.  There are skills, and those skills are the bridge to achieving the actual pieces.  Your links also allow us to see other students playing.  The problem seems to be across the board.  DO NOT give up.  If you do get proper instruction, you will see things that seemed hard, become easy.  It may be that by now you have acquired a number of habits that are not ideal, and approaches that don't work well.  It is a job to learn new habits (physical playing etc.), new ways of seeing things, and new ways of approaching things - harder than starting from scratch - but the change is absolutely worth it.

[faulty_damper]

Make up your mind. 

As to the rest, presumptuous nonsense. Methinks you project greater talents onto your earlier self than is warranted.

I think you're envious since you attempt to attack me by pulling things from a different thread to try to force a contradiction.  So stop it and you should take my advice and practice more.

[mani8463]

@gyzzzmo: you're right, I should practice, practice and practice, I should engrave that somewhere lol,
@piano4kay: I learned to play 4 pieces from Anna Magdalena notebook and that's when he decided they were 'easy' for me and he decided I should move on to other pieces which are harder, and he started teaching me 4 inventions and then through the same excuse we did 2 sinfonias and now it's fugue's turn it has been my fault too, perhaps I haven't been very strict with him about which pieces to work with me, but again he is the instructor, I am the student, he is the one who should decided what I should work on and what I shouldn't work on,
@keypeg: how I wish I were following a method like the one you explain, a method that allows me to learn difficult pieces when it's 'time' for me to learn them, and not when it's 'too' early for me to learn them,
big thanks to all you lovely people for your comments

[gyzzzmo]

@gyzzzmo: you're right, I should practice, practice and practice, I should engrave that somewhere lol
big thanks to all you lovely people for your comments

To make myself clear, dont just 'practice, practice and practice'. You should practice mindfully and efficiently, wich for most people takes a good teacher

[cometear]

Hey there!

I think you're doing fairly well for two and a half years! These pieces are beyond your skill level and I think it's great you took them on. In my opinion, I would have started with something more appropriate to efficiently sculpt your technique. In an earlier post you asked if you were sitting right or if you were playing the key correctly. They are questions many people have and unfortunately we can't answer them by watching a video. My suggestion is to find a new teacher! I don't like the way your teacher is having you progress. It seems unhealthy and they seem to be using you as a representative.

What really is your goal for piano? A fun hobby? Performing for small audiences maybe? Or is it more than that, possibly a career? I can better suit your questions depending on what your trying to achieve. For example, if you don't really have a goal than our answers will vary. Thanks for asking!

-cometear

[j_menz]

I think you're envious since you attempt to attack me by pulling things from a different thread to try to force a contradiction.  So stop it and you should take my advice and practice more.

I am envious, in moderation, of many people, but you are not counted among them.

The contradiction is not forced at all. I agree with the quote from the other topic - that the quality of practice is more important than the quantity (without knocking quantity of good practice) - and was sorry to see you lapse into the mindless "practice more/harder" school of thought.

[mani8463]

@cometear: I started the whole thing with having it in mind as a carrier opportunity, or better to say, I wanted to prepare myself to enter a university or a conservatory, and back then like everyone hears this, people told me I wouldn't make it, and that only people who had started playing piano as children could enter academic centers to continue their musical studies, but I didn't listen to them and started it anyway, but later on I realised there was some truth in what I'd been said before, now I know how much long term learning and practice is important in playing any instrument, especially piano.
so far I've lost my hope in entering a university or conservatory because I know their entrance exams mostly are so demanding and one must have a high skill level in playing to be able to pass them, so I don't know exactly where I stand, is it a hobby for me? it is but again it's not just a hobby, if it were I would defenitely quit going to my current piano class and just play the songs that I like at home, is it a carrier for me? Im not sure I can step into that path, I've tasted the stress in front of 70 people and Im not sure it's something I can handle(maybe I can, I don't know), so you're right, your question is very important but right now I don't have a definite answer to it I'm afraid

[keypeg]

.

[sucom]

Hi Mani,

I don't believe the average student can learn the technical skills required for achieving musical expression of such advanced music within two and a half years, let alone 6 months!  Getting your fingers to play such a lot of notes, in the correct order, requires tremendous perseverance in such a short time.  In this respect, I think you are doing extremely well to even tackle these pieces.  So in one way, I think the teacher may be keen for you to demonstrate this skill just because it is unusual to play such advanced music within such a short time.

However....despite achieving the technical skills for playing more advanced pieces, the average student will be musically 'immature' at this early stage, so it would be expected that musical maturity will develop later .... with a good teacher.

I would be interested in hearing you play a piece that is more suitable for your development where you have been allowed to consider the musical skills required to express the music as a language, rather than being pushed to the challenge of learning so many notes!  That would allow for a better evaluation, in my opinion.

Whatever you do, don't give up if you enjoy practising.  Enjoyment is THE main reason for playing - don't ever forget that.  If you enjoy what you are doing, keep going regardless.  If playing the piano brings you joy, don't ever consider giving it up, no matter how anyone evaluates your playing.  It is far too easily forgotten that the main reason for playing an instrument is the enjoyment it brings.  It's not a competition about who is the better player or who learns the quickest.  It's about feeling the joy of reproducing the music.  And when you follow that joy, it leads you to the right places for you, whether that be a career in music or quiet time away from the stresses of everyday life.  Whatever the reason for your practice, it will serve you in the way it is meant to.  There is no need to ask for an evaluation of your playing.  If you enjoy it, that has to be good enough for anyone.

[outin]

@cometear: I started the whole thing with having it in mind as a carrier opportunity, or better to say, I wanted to prepare myself to enter a university or a conservatory, and back then like everyone hears this, people told me I wouldn't make it, and that only people who had started playing piano as children could enter academic centers to continue their musical studies, but I didn't listen to them and started it anyway, but later on I realised there was some truth in what I'd been said before, now I know how much long term learning and practice is important in playing any instrument, especially piano.
so far I've lost my hope in entering a university or conservatory because I know their entrance exams mostly are so demanding and one must have a high skill level in playing to be able to pass them, so I don't know exactly where I stand, is it a hobby for me? it is but again it's not just a hobby, if it were I would defenitely quit going to my current piano class and just play the songs that I like at home, is it a carrier for me? Im not sure I can step into that path, I've tasted the stress in front of 70 people and Im not sure it's something I can handle(maybe I can, I don't know), so you're right, your question is very important but right now I don't have a definite answer to it I'm afraid

There are many of us who want to learn to play really well and are quite ambititious and study hard even if we know we will always just be amateur players, maybe never going to perfom much. There is a long tradition of skilled amateur playing when it comes to piano and I think it is being revived again with the internet. So you really do not need any other reason than enjoyment of the music and the piano.

"Hobby" is not a very good word for describing it. As with any other engaging acitivity people do on their free time, it may look strange to an outsider to spend so much time and money for something that will never become an income source, but those who are initiated know why

[iancollett6]

For only playing for 2.5 years, I think you are doing very well! What country are you in out of interest?

[j_menz]

"Hobby" is not a very good word for describing it.

Why not? A "hobby" is something we engage in for the love of it, as a means of enriching our lives - and possibly, but not necessarily, the lives of others - without thought of effort or reward. Other than the reward it itself provides. Our hobbies are often some of our greatest sources of joy and peace, and speak more eloquently of our true selves than any mere paid pastime could ever do.

[outin]

Why not? A "hobby" is something we engage in for the love of it, as a means of enriching our lives - and possibly, but not necessarily, the lives of others - without thought of effort or reward. Other than the reward it itself provides. Our hobbies are often some of our greatest sources of joy and peace, and speak more eloquently of our true selves than any mere paid pastime could ever do.

It would be a good word of course, but I feel it has became to mean something a bit shallow and less important for many people. Something you can start when you feel the need to get an activity and then drop when something else comes along or you get time issues. I do not see a possibility to drop the piano even though it would make my life a lot easier right now. 

[hfmadopter]

It would be a good word of course, but I feel it has became to mean something a bit shallow and less important for many people. Something you can start when you feel the need to get an activity and then drop when something else comes along or you get time issues. I do not see a possibility to drop the piano even though it would make my life a lot easier right now. 

I like to view "my piano experience" as an avocation without monetary gain. In the end that would be a hobby but the other way seems like it fits better.

[andd845]

I'd say you're only a short hop from ABRSM grade 5, particularly if you can get some regular time on an acoustic, which isn't bad at all for only 2 years and a bit...

[mani8463]

@sucom: thanks for your lovely comment, I loved how you talk about the joy the music should bring and how it should be the reason why I should practice
@iancollett6: I live in Iran, and it's another reason why I can't find many good teachers who teach classical piano music, they are hard to find, and there are almost no conservatories here where I live so I had it in mind to go to europe to enroll in a conservatory there and continue my studies there but again like I said before, Im not sure I can pass the entrance exams there,
@andd845: wow thanks for your evaluation, I feel flattered xD, if I were in britain I would sure try take those exams, maybe I wouldn't go further than grade 1 but still it's good to pass those exams no matter what grade I'd get

[cometear]

Check the message I sent to you Mani.