Discouraged, frustrated, lost..

[burz96]

Hello,

My name is James and I am 16 years old. Music is my passion in life, I have been playing piano for 1 1/2 years and violin for 8. For most of my piano playing time I have been self taught up until about 6-7 months ago when I finally began taking lessons.

Some pieces I have memorized and played are:

Beethoven's Piano Sonata no. 8  (All 3 movements)
Beethoven's Piano Sonata op. 10 no. 1 (1st movement)
Beethoven's Piano Concerto no. 2 (1st movement with Beethoven's Cadenza)
Various Bach Preludes & Fugues

So as you see, I do play quite a lot of Beethoven and I dabble with other classical composers. Here is where my problem comes in.

I have always been told I have a gift for piano and I am talented, this I do not believe. I see many other people around my age that are playing Rachmaninov's 3rd Concerto and other advanced pieces that I can only dream of playing. Well I have found my technical abilities to be lacking in basic areas and I have no idea on how to improve.

My biggest predicament at the moment is my teacher. He has a Jazz/Blues background and nearly no classical training. The most he can help me with during lessons is fingerings for my pieces and music theory (which has helped me immensely). I have been contemplating finding a new teacher but I am not sure if that is what I need. What should a teacher be teaching me anyway? Scales? Exercises?

Apologies for the long, rambling, probably fragmented wall of text. I have so much on my mind and I'm feeling really down about my skills. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Regards,
James

[theholygideons]

wow.. has only played piano for 1.5 years and wants to play rach 3.. either very impatient or mega-troll.

If your teacher has absolutely no classical training, then that is very alarming. Post a video of you playing one of these pieces so we can see if you're going down the right path. Better get a properly teacher, lol.

you should be practising a mix of scales, arpeggios, octaves, thirds, as well as some romantic repetoire to build further technique if you actually wanna play rach 3>>" (what?), plus some music theory as well.

[burz96]

wow.. has only played piano for 1.5 years and wants to play rach 3.. either very impatient or mega-troll.

If your teacher has absolutely no classical training, then that is very alarming. Post a video of you playing one of these pieces so we can see if you're going down the right path. Better get a properly teacher, lol.

you should be practising a mix of scales, arpeggios, octaves, thirds, as well as some romantic repetoire to build further technique if you actually wanna play rach 3>>" (what?), plus some music theory as well.

I think you misunderstood me. I was referring to a Piano Concerto Competition that was held in my area and there were 16-18 year old's playing Rach. I understand I am nowhere near the level of skill required to play a piece such as that and have no desire to currently.

[outin]

Well I have found my technical abilities to be lacking in basic areas and I have no idea on how to improve.

My biggest predicament at the moment is my teacher. He has a Jazz/Blues background and nearly no classical training. The most he can help me with during lessons is fingerings for my pieces and music theory (which has helped me immensely). I have been contemplating finding a new teacher but I am not sure if that is what I need. What should a teacher be teaching me anyway? Scales? Exercises?

I am not at all surprised at all if you are frustrated and discouraged. You need a new teacher. The pieces you are playing are inappropriate concerning the short time you have studied. I don't think any classically trained teacher would try to skip basics like that. Since you have a musical background you probably can somehow get through things, but you miss learning many important things.

You will learn technique by practicing music suitable for someone with your experience and with good guidance from a teacher. Piano playing is a complex neurological skill and it takes time to develope it from scratch. Have you considered how many years those people who can play Rach 3 at your age have studied the piano? Only after the same amount of years with proper teaching can you judge your own playing compared to them.

[burz96]

I am not at all surprised at all if you are frustrated and discouraged. You need a new teacher. The pieces you are playing are inappropriate concerning the short time you have studied. I don't think any classically trained teacher would try to skip basics like that. Since you have a musical background you probably can somehow get through things, but you miss learning many important things.

You will learn technique by practicing music suitable for someone with your experience and with good guidance from a teacher. Piano playing is a complex neurological skill and it takes time to develope it from scratch. Have you considered how many years those people who can play Rach 3 at your age have studied the piano? Only after the same amount of years with proper teaching can you judge your own playing compared to them.

Thank you for your response. I suppose I really do need to find a new teacher if I want to progress. Now regarding your statement "The pieces you are playing are inappropriate concerning the short time you have studied." I understand they are quite advanced pieces for someone of my playing time but I have found them to not be extremely challenging technically (musically is another story). While I begin the search for a new teacher, is there any pieces or exercises you could recommend to me that would help build proper technique?

Again I greatly appreciate the help.

[outin]

Thank you for your response. I suppose I really do need to find a new teacher if I want to progress. Now regarding your statement "The pieces you are playing are inappropriate concerning the short time you have studied." I understand they are quite advanced pieces for someone of my playing time but I have found them to not be extremely challenging technically (musically is another story). While I begin the search for a new teacher, is there any pieces or exercises you could recommend to me that would help build proper technique?

Again I greatly appreciate the help.

Can one really differentiate between technicality and musicality? They are supposed to be developing at the same time. There are people who can progress very fast and can play difficult music after just a couple of years. But I also see people who play advanced music very badly, some don't even seem to notice themselves. From your post it seems you are not happy with your own abilities with those pieces, so it would be good to go back and try to take some time to build a more solid foundation with a competent teacher. If the problems are minor, it might not take long, just to get your confidence and motivation back.

I think it's best to let your new teacher determine what you need. There's no way anyone could do that here without seeing/hearing you play. I am certainly not qualified to do that.

Teachers have different methods that they have found to work. Mine makes me play pieces and scales and arpeggios, but the main focus has always been on pieces.

[yohankwon]

I'm 16 and played Beethoven Op.19 this year....and I also played Chopin's 2nd Sonata and Petrushka. These pieces are way up there, higher than what a normal 16yr old plays.

[j_menz]

I'm 16 and played Beethoven Op.19 this year....and I also played Chopin's 2nd Sonata and Petrushka. These pieces are way up there, higher than what a normal 16yr old plays.

Running for most irrelevant post award? 

[yohankwon]

Running for most irrelevant post award? 

You missed my point

[j_menz]

You missed my point

I even missed that you had one. 

[rmbarbosa]

Do you play Beethoven Piano Concert no 2 ou do you "make noise" with it? And do you play it with orchestra? And do you play this Concert and still need a teatcher and ask us if you must play scales? And your teacher is a teacher of Jazz? Oh, so many duties I have...

[burz96]

Oh, so many duties I have...

Oh yes, poor you. I came to this form in hopes of seeking advice to further my musical studies. You  were not required to reply, nor did you need to do so in a condescending tone. I have had a teacher who has not been very helpful, and you expect me to know what I should be improving on? There is only so much I know and can hear in my own playing. You realize that's kinda the point of having a teacher? A more skilled musician who can analyse your playing and strengthen your playing abilities. And in regards to your comment about playing the concerto. No I do not 'make noise' with it. I happen to play it quite well I think (of course not as well as a trained musician).

I made the original post simply asking about exercises I could do to improve my playing while I search for a new teacher. In the future, you should remember that this is a forum. You have no obligation to post, and in this case it would have been better for you to not as yours was quite useless and somewhat rude.

To the others who have contributed advice, thank you. I have decided to find a new teacher who better fits my interests.

Regards,
James

[senanserat]

Drama aside, why not some Czerny Op.299 (School of Velocity) I think it has helped me greatly to get some stamina and improve technical skills...

The first No.1 Op.299 took me 4 months...In my defence it was the first etude I ever did and I didn´t have a piano.

I started my piano career with the Death Waltz and as today 1 and 2 months later I only have the text up to 70% of speed, the point of this is that you should not rush ahead before you have solid bases.

I think that in my case right now would have been a good time to start learning it.

[burz96]

the point of this is that you should not rush ahead before you have solid bases.

Thank you. Most of my time playing the piano was me just picking pieces I enjoyed and trying to learn them. I am working on building a better foundation which is why I came here to better understand what I should be working on.

I will check out the Czerny pieces, thanks for the recommendation 

[senanserat]

Thank you. Most of my time playing the piano was me just picking pieces I enjoyed and trying to learn them. I am working on building a better foundation which is why I came here to better understand what I should be working on.

I will check out the Czerny pieces, thanks for the recommendation 

On other note I concur that you should post at least one recording so the more experienced members can gauge your skill level. For example I feel like I still play like rubbish but most members here have helped me a lot to gradually polish my performace up to a point where my first recording of a piece has even been described as;

Passable for music with just one shoot of vodka.

I am was touched

[rmbarbosa]

James,
Please insert here a video with you playing the Concert of Beethoven. Thank you.

[alpacinator1]

For what it's worth, I never started on the Pathetique until I had been playing for about 8-9 years. Granted, my enthusiasm was rather on-and-off over the course of those years and I went through phases where I rarely practiced, but even so, I think playing the pieces you're playing after 1.5 years is very impressive, even considering your extensive musical background.

[cabbynum]

Don't compare yourself to those kids.
A friend of mine who is just a year older than me has played rach 2, I've watched him sight read ridiculous pieces and he learned the notes of TE 4 in about 2 days just about at full tempo.
The thing is, he's been playing since he was 4 (I think) so he has way more experience than me(2 years of piano playing with no musical background) you and I are similar I think. We both learn really quickly and we both have natural ability with it. We can work our asses off and catch up to them if we want to. It is doable it'll just be hard. You've played violin for 8 years so I'd take a guess that your reading is pretty quick. (Mine isn't) so is suggest do lots of scales and lots of arpeggios. Octaves are the easiest thing in the world for me so I don't work those as much as thirds and 6ths. My goal is to have those as fast and confident as my octaves.
Don't compare yourself to those guys just yet. Work really hard and make it so that they also compare them-self to you.

[rmbarbosa]

I`m a kid with 64 years of piano practice.