Chopin posth. Nocturne - middle section tempo change

[skern49]

I've listened to several recordings of Chopin's Nocturne in C# minor, op. posth., and 90% of people double the tempo at the end of the middle section, when the meter changes from 4/4 to 2/4 and then 3/4. Why do they do this? There is nothing indicating this change. Perhaps if the meter changed to 2/2 and 3/2, THEN I might understand (even then, it'd be ambiguous).

[mjames]

Because they wanted to.

Simple as that.

Not everyone plays by the book; if you wish to do so, then by all means go ahead.

[faulty_damper]

When does it change to 2/4?

It starts out in:
C (mm 1-20)
3/4 (mm 21-2)
C (mm 23-4)
3/4 (mm 25-6)
C (mm 27-9)
3/4 (mm 30-44)

Anyway, that's the second version, KK IVa Nr. 16.  The first version has no such notated meter changes.

[chopin2015]

because of the triplet?

[faulty_damper]

Even with the triplet, it doesn't call for the funk that so many pianists take liberty at expressing.  In fact, I don't think anyone who reads what is written would ever interpret it with such pizazz, especially considering what comes before it.  I think somewhere along the timeline, some pianist played it that way and it just caught on with other pianists copying it.

[chopin2015]

Even with the triplet, it doesn't call for the funk that so many pianists take liberty at expressing.  In fact, I don't think anyone who reads what is written would ever interpret it with such pizazz, especially considering what comes before it.  I think somewhere along the timeline, some pianist played it that way and it just caught on with other pianists copying it.

forsure. possibly, because it is a simple part...the melody is just ta dam...you know? so you gotta make it a little faster to bring that little bit out. Maybe...

[skern49]

When does it change to 2/4?

It starts out in:
C (mm 1-20)
3/4 (mm 21-2)
C (mm 23-4)
3/4 (mm 25-6)
C (mm 27-9)
3/4 (mm 30-44)

Anyway, that's the second version, KK IVa Nr. 16.  The first version has no such notated meter changes.

Whoa, never seen that version. Do you have a link?

This is the one I'm talking about: https://imslp.eu/linkhandler.php?path=/imglnks/euimg/b/b3/IMSLP86710-PMLP03848-nocturne_C-_minor_B.49.pdf

Measure 32 is in 2/4.

But yeah, I agree with your assessment. Someone probably did it and then it just caught on. And regarding the other poster who said it's really slow, I agree with that too, and it might be appropriate to speed up a little. But the double-time thing is jarring. But that's half because I'm used to hearing/playing it without it.

[faulty_damper]

I'm looking at the Carisch edition and the second version does, indeed, have a 2/4 measure, but it isn't notated as such.  The first version differs and m32 is the beginning of the funk.  The second version, the implied 2/4 is just before the funk.

[rmbarbosa]

The transition 4/4 to 3/4 by itself tends to increase the speed even with the metronome unchanged.
But beyond this mathematic fact, we  may feel this intermediate section as a period of "restlessness", like a "cry", that then returns to calm.
Almost every nocturns of Chopin have a faster and "stormy" intermediate section...

[mjames]

In my edition (schirmer) there are changes to 5/4 and changes to 3/4 right before the end of the intermediate section.