I have also been frustrated at teachers who won't do their job of teaching but insist on me playing easier pieces that I don't have an affinity with,then complain when I'm slow to pick up on The Well-Tempered Clavier book they've just thrown at me. It's their job to put in correct fingering and listen whilst I play and make practical suggestions,not to give up because a piece is beyond me and dangle the piece I want to play as years down the line,when working on just two bars seems beyond ther patience and comprehension.
Some people learn more slowly than others,yet it's often the teachers who profess to be the most enthusiastic and caring in their advertisements who don't have the patience when you hold on a crotchet which shoudn't be held(this was a direct experience of mine) and use this as an excuse not to teach the whole piece! Any piece can be broken down into constituent parts and I don't agree that fingering is the pupil's responsibility either:it's part of why I pay a teacher handsomely to look at my hands and direct a pencil con moto across the ledger lines..
I don't agree that fingering is the pupil's responsibility either:it's part of why I pay a teacher handsomely to look at my hands and direct a pencil con moto across the ledger lines..
It should be a teachers responsibility to show you how to work out good fingering. That would be worth paying handsomely for; what you are getting - "use this fingering" - isn't worth the money.You are, after all, trying to learn how to play the piano. Not just to play as you are told, but to equip you to go off and do stuff on your own. Unless you are planning on paying handsomely forever.
You have to be spoon fed at the beginning unless you're a prodigy and most of us are not. I've heard this trust in the teacher before but as someone started a thread I replied to just now one knows instinctively if something is wrong,and a syllabus with some direction is often a compromise solution to a teacher who has forgotten what passed between himself and pupil the previous week. Modern syllabuses have a variety of choice to suit every age,and I don't accept the excuse to diverge from this because "this piece can be played in a Grade 3 or a Grade 6 way" when it's pretty obvious I'm past that stage and I do wish to be stretched whilst being motivated by a teacher who cares.
You have to be spoon fed at the beginning
I guess it all boils down to just what do you wish to do with the instrument, where do you wanna go... And that is something you have to decide when choosing a teacher, and maybe even talk with the one you have. Some people only want to play for pleasure, so there's no real problem in "skipping some steps". But if you are serious and have a more professional approach to the music... then you are the one who has to find a way to motivate yourself. Wether you want it or not, you are not always gonna play what you like. I don't know if you want that kind of exposition, if you don't want to talk about your case... but if you do, can you please tell us more about it? What are your "goals" with piano? Your teacher's curriculum, how long have you been playing... Sorry if you don't to talk about it, but I'm curious about your case.
Nor did I suggest otherwise. But along the way, you need to be taught to feed yourself. And the sooner that starts, the better.
Actually beginner or not, I never expected to be spoon fed...that would be a good reason to change the teacher.A little help guiding the spoon to the right direction every now and then is ok Even if my teacher does sometimes write fingering suggestions for me when I try to sight read something new with her or I've been too lazy to think myself, quite often they have to be changed after I actually start practicing the spot. I think it's a ridiculous idea that a teacher should write in fingerings for the student. Use lesson time for that? The way to learn is to try first and then ask help if you can't find a solution on your own. And in the very beginning the pieces usually have the fingerings already printed.
I wonder if the progression is to work on a more difficult piece, get ideas from the teacher to speed things up, eventually overcome the piece and move up to a new playing level.
Yes,and to go back to shellfishsea's initial comment it's great that one feels the need to broaden one's horizons in the first place,even if the pieces you aspire to play are a few years down the line.
Man, honestly, what it looks like is that you are mad because your teacher doesn't think you are ready for the sort of repertoire you want to play. This is very normal, believe me.
Possibly chicoscalco,but there's only so long you can spend on Mozart or Schumann's Kinderszenen before an adult gets to screaming pitch..
It is really difficult to perform Schumann well.
I apologize if the title is strangely worded. As a student, how do you "know" if you're ready to tackle difficult pieces (eg. Beethoven's later sonatas)? Would you have to master that particular composer's easier works before attempting them?
I'll definitely take all the comments on board.Of course there's no substitute for the long hard slog.Who is Thalbergmad?
I was talking about more advanced pieces which I still insist I play better if fingering is marked in. Take it as a guide if you don't accept it as gospel.
But if you are already into more advanced pieces, why would you need the teacher to do that? If you don't practice working on fingerings from the earlier stages, how would you learn to know your hands and what works and what doesn't? I've always thougth that working for to find good fingerings is an essential part of learning technique. It can sometimes feel overwhelming at first but when you get into it, it's really rewarding.
I use it as a guide I suppose. I can copy better than I can create.
Nobody is born knowing how to "create" fingering. That's exactly why we learn it, as should you.
On my brief time on this site I must confess to feeling either you're all a bunch of arrogant snobs or in your desire to help you really have no idea how you come across to the average aspiring musician..
Steve, If you are frustrated with your progress then either you are not working hard enough (which does not sound likely) or your teacher is not teaching you technique properly. If the teacher is not working out, then find another. Or just get a second opinion. Ask for a single lesson with someone who you've heard is good and ask for an evaluation of your technique and your approach to practicing. My only amateur bit of wisdom about technique is that 95% of technique is about making a beautiful sound. Once you've got the right motions to make a beautiful sound, playing a lot of notes, or playing fast comes fairly easily.