any idea on how to play this section

[swagmaster420x]

at the crazy marked speed of quarter note = 160?
https://i.imgur.com/oirsPan.png

[j_menz]

Assuming you know how to play octaves at a reasonable speed, the "trick" here is to chunk them effectively. In other words, consider a group of them a single thing.

In this instance, I'd chunk them differently to the grouping they're written in and chunk each two semiquavers together with the quaver in the following (written) group.  Not totally certain of that since I don't recognise the piece, but it doesn't appear to have phrasing that conflicts with that. It is important to not let your chunking interfere with the rhythm.

To practice, start slowly and do  da da daaa  alternating going up a semitone, down a semi tone, up a tone, down a tone, starting on a black note and a white note. One da da daaa then pause then another. Don't overdo it in any one sitting - five or so minutes a few times a day- but in a few days (or maybe more) your brain or whatever will click in and the pattern will be set. Then you can start to go fast.

[swagmaster420x]

i think i know what you mean. i just figured out how to play the pairs of semiquavers fast. this is what i did: for one pair, though theres two notes, i used "one hand motion" to play them both. i.e. i acted like the two semiquavers were actually only one note, but the bouncing of my hand after it jabbed the keys made it two notes. is that what you're talking about by chunking?


o ya and my fingering is like this: 1-5 for the first quaver, and then 1-5 1-4 for the two semiquavers that follow, then back again. the only issue i have actualy is doing 1-4 on the octave on white keys, which stretches my hand 2 much

[swagmaster420x]

fkk i just tried it your way, by grouping two semiquavers then the quaver instead of quaver then semiquavers, and it was way easier to play fast but i had to change to 1-5 fingering for all of them.

fk i used 1-5 for all of them at the beginning and spent considerable effort changing to 1-5 1-4 1-5 so i could play it faster. my effort feels wasted now. so sad. but i got it pre fast following ur advice though ty

feels so bad though.. changing then changning back

[cabbynum]

No idea if this is acceptable, but I've done it in the past for a few pieces where it's octave in one hand and single note in the other on the same not, I just make them both an octave. It makes it easier to play fast for me.
What piece is this? It looks interesting!

[j_menz]

I'd use 1-5 for all of them, certainly on the two semi-quavers.

The feels like one hand motion thing is what should happen, so sounds like you're doing it right.

 

[cabbynum]

The feels like one hand motion thing is what should happen, so sounds like you're doing it right.

 

Is that bit directed towards me? If so is doing that frowned upon?

[swagmaster420x]

its played pre significantly slower.. i dont think i would have troubles with the section i posted if i played it at the speed in the vid (mebbe still some troubles with the F octave).
why do composers fking mark their pieces at crazy speeds? leonard bernstein plays it at nowhere near 160 crochets/min

when i first read the score of the piece, i thot it was easy t . t but it's actually hard.. harder imo than the grieg a minor concerto i played last year

[j_menz]

Is that bit directed towards me? If so is doing that frowned upon?

Nope - not at you.

On your point:

Doing the double octave thing you talk about is generally fine - even to be encouraged in some cases. But be careful you aren't upsetting an intended balance. Pianos ofttimes had fewer octaves until the early mid 19th century (some earlier Liszt pieces even have explicit ossias to allow for this), so the missing octaves may just be because the notes weren't there at the time. For later pieces, I'd be cautious that the difference in texture wasn't explicitly intended.

[j_menz]

its played pre significantly slower.. i dont think i would have troubles with the section i posted if i played it at the speed in the vid (mebbe still some troubles with the F octave).
why do composers fking mark their pieces at crazy speeds? leonard bernstein plays it at nowhere near 160 crochets/min

This is it played (at 160 or thereabouts) by Dimitri's son:

[cabbynum]

its played pre significantly slower.. i dont think i would have troubles with the section i posted if i played it at the speed in the vid (mebbe still some troubles with the F octave).
why do composers fking mark their pieces at crazy speeds? leonard bernstein plays it at nowhere near 160 crochets/min

when i first read the score of the piece, i thot it was easy t . t but it's actually hard.. harder imo than the grieg a minor concerto i played last year

You should be fine at this tempo. Try speeding up a bit and see what speed you like, I wouldn't go slower than this though.
That's just me though.

[cabbynum]

Nope - not at you.

On your point:

Doing the double octave thing you talk about is generally fine - even to be encouraged in some cases. But be careful you aren't upsetting an intended balance. Pianos ofttimes had fewer octaves until the early mid 19th century (some earlier Liszt pieces even have explicit ossias to allow for this), so the missing octaves may just be because the notes weren't there at the time. For later pieces, I'd be cautious that the difference in texture wasn't explicitly intended.

In rachmaninoff a prelude in g minor I would do it after the D major to Bb a if chord, not too specific but right there! Haha, I would then have the g minor scale in octaves. For pieces I have intention on performing I sometimes challenge myself and make it octaves, liszt Paganini etude no. One is fun. I have the "tremolo" be two octaves with the melody note in the right hand in eternal the outer notes. It makes for a fun effect and fun exercise but doesn't add anything to the music, it takes away in my opinion. But it's fun! You should try it!

[swagmaster420x]

This is it played (at 160 or thereabouts) by Dimitri's son:

dan thas beast