Schimmel vs Shigeru Kawai

[jknott]

I'm intending to buy a small grand piano as I'm starting work on a DipABRSM and need a more serious instrument than my antique upright.

Budget is up to £30k (I'm near London), and have space to go up to 180cm/6 ft. 

I've come down to a choice between two which I like a lot.  First, a Shigeru Kawai 180 cm SKL-2, which I could get for around £25k.  Second, a Schimmel K169 - old style, before they created the new K175T, which is on sale for just under £30k (and the shop says they don't do deals). 

I find the Shigeru immediately appealing, and easier/more responsive to play at first try, particularly to play softly.  The Schimmel seemed harder work at first though it improved as I played over some pieces.  I also don't know whether it's good for technique to practise on a piano that seems easier, particularly as this may make the piano I play for the diploma seem more difficult!

Any thoughts/advice?

Thank you!

[awesom_o]

If you tell the shop that has the Schimmel that you are most likely going to get the Kawai because they are giving you a great deal on it, they will come down in price, guaranteed.

30,000 quid for a K169 is too much!

Have you tried the smaller model of Estonia?

I would be inclined to go with the Shigeru. Definitely try the Estonia first, though.

[hfmadopter]

Common sense says to go with the piano that calls to you, the one you want to play and play because it's glorious to play on. It's not fun to own a piano where you have to adjust yourself to it's what ever, be that tone or presence but especially action. You will get through your exam either way, perhaps it might go a little bit better if you get a heavy action piano for the exam if you had to live with that at home. The key is you have to live with that at home day in and day out. Yes you will adjust and really it is not so much if the action is heavy or light but sublimely corroborative to your style of playing that matters.

[gvans]

I agree with awesom and hmfa-- the Schimmel is overpriced, and be sure to fall in love with the piano. It will be there with you for a long time.

I personally have a Schimmel 178, I love it. The tone is even throughout the register. Yes, it has a bit of a stiff action, but I don't mind. If you can play a trill well on the Schimmel, you can do it well anywhere else with ease. The Schimmels have, typically, a singing, bright treble register. This is not a problem for me, nor for the string players I rehearse with. They often find the Steinways we are given to perform on at halls to sound rather lame and dull in comparison.

Still, Kawais are fine pianos, and not dissimilar from the Schimmels in many ways. Keep looking, become an expert! Bigger pianos (more bass overtones) and newer pianos (rebuilding is expensive and problematic) are, for the most part, better. Sometimes a bigger grand that's 20 years old and in perfect shape will cost the same as a new, smaller one.

There's nothing more fun than trying out pianos, new and used, by the dozens. Like dating in college. Don't rush the process. Fall in love.

[jknott]

Thanks for all the advice so far. 

I do need to keep within 180cm to fit into the room where the piano will live.  Of course the Shigeru is a few inches bigger than the Schimmel (180 vs 169) - does that make much of a difference?

I would love to have the time to look around and try lots of pianos, but it's difficult fitting in with a more than full-time job and the shops here in the UK don't open much when I'm not at work (no late evenings and very few are open on Sundays). I'm hunting via web plus some word of mouth advice, and then going to try the one or two I think are contenders.

[hfmadopter]

Thanks for all the advice so far.  

I do need to keep within 180cm to fit into the room where the piano will live.  Of course the Shigeru is a few inches bigger than the Schimmel (180 vs 169) - does that make much of a difference?

I would love to have the time to look around and try lots of pianos, but it's difficult fitting in with a more than full-time job and the shops here in the UK don't open much when I'm not at work (no late evenings and very few are open on Sundays). I'm hunting via web plus some word of mouth advice, and then going to try the one or two I think are contenders.

The Shigeru in your size is near perfect, the action seems to be what you like and with proper tuning those piano's have a beautiful almost crystalline tone in all the upper register with a vibrant deep toned bass. They tune out with a clear rich tone throughout. I don't think anyone who has played and bought it ever wants to part with it actually. I would love to own one myself, it's a dream piano with me ( it wouldn't make much sense to own a piano larger than 6' in my house either, my present one being 5'11"). But you have to know you like it going in. They beat the RX by a fair margin and that piano is no slouch to begin with.

Around the 5'10" mark to 6' will give a very nice strong bass on most decent brand pianos, far better than anything under 5'7" for sure ( sorry for the non metric measurements !) and in between there is the transition when some pianos could muster up  to the standard of the larger ones and some may not. Down around 5'3" you need to get really picky about the bass.

Of course we all love to own 7' or 9' concert grands but hey we have to be realistic.

You are on the right path.

[beethovensonata]

As an owner of a Shigeru Kawai Sk5 i can tell you, you will not be disappointed with it!  It is unparrelelled, only brands like bosendorfer, steinway, and fazioli are better, maybe even on the same level!
Go Shigeru

[pogmoger]

Given the straight choice between a Shigeru and a Schimmel, I would go for the Shigeru based purely on my own personal preference. Both are more than decent pianos.

Bluthner in London often have lightly used/rebuilt pianos around the £30k mark.

Markson Pianos are open on Sundays. They had a wonderful Steingraeber about that size when I was there a couple of months ago, but it might be a bit over budget - I can't remember.

https://www.marksonpianos.com

Have fun trying as many different pianos as you can get your hands on!

[richard black]

Personally I would go for the Schimmel every time on quality grounds. But then again, I would also consider a second-hand Steinway, Bechstein, Blüthner, Bösendorfer or Steingraeber: with that budget, you'll find plenty of choice. I looked at the Besbrode Pianos website a day or two ago (yes, they're in Leeds, but the train fare there and back won't make a huge whole in your budget) and they've got lots of tasty-looking instruments around £30k.

[withindale]

Personally I would go for the Schimmel every time on quality grounds.

In what ways does the quality of a Schimmel exceed a Shigeru?

[hfmadopter]

In what ways does the quality of a Schimmel exceed a Shigeru?

IMO, O ways. But I suppose Richard sees a certain other quality that I'm not looking for. A Shigeru is a fine fine instrument built in limited quantities I might add.

[jknott]

Btw thanks for all the advice.  I went ahead and bought the Shigeru (sorry Richard!) which is now delivered and installed - two weeks of hard practice ahead over the Christmas break from work.

Many thanks for all the advice.  In the end the deciding factors were: I loved the piano at first sight and was reassured by most of the advice given here, and value for money seemed good compared to German-made pianos.  I could perhaps have spent more time hunting around but didn't want an older piano (already have an older upright) and don't really have the time to spare. 

Happy Christmas all!

[hfmadopter]

Btw thanks for all the advice.  I went ahead and bought the Shigeru (sorry Richard!) which is now delivered and installed - two weeks of hard practice ahead over the Christmas break from work.

Many thanks for all the advice.  In the end the deciding factors were: I loved the piano at first sight and was reassured by most of the advice given here, and value for money seemed good compared to German-made pianos.  I could perhaps have spent more time hunting around but didn't want an older piano (already have an older upright) and don't really have the time to spare. 

Happy Christmas all!

Same to you ! And be sure to let us know how you get along with your new purchase. I hope that you find it very satisfying to own, I know 100% that I would !

[richard black]

In what ways does the quality of a Schimmel exceed a Shigeru?

Sorry, I was stupid there - I omitted the word 'sound'. I prefer the sound quality of the Schimmel. In terms of build quality there's probably nothing in it, they're both very well made.

[keys60]

I played a Shigeru last night and it was instant love. Some of the softest pp I've ever played. I just don't have 57k US to spend on a piano. Shimmel is wonderful too. Not only is it a joy to play buy I love the craftsmanship. Too different animals, both really nice. Guess the rest is up to you.