I need help choosing a beethoven sonata.

[francisco40295]

I am a regular self taught pianist who just created an acount to ask this.
I play a little beethoven, I play Tempest mov 1 and 3 and moonlight moovement 1 and fur elise.

I play another things, but that's my beethoven and hardest pieces so that you can have an idea of my level. I've been playing for 1.5 years or so but I play a lot and learn fast.

The issue here is simple. I play tempest sonata and I know it's not very hard, I play it well. But people on forums here keep rating tempest sonata among the highest, keep telling it's very very hard... harder than many others which are objectively harder.
How do I determine the difficulty? I have all sonatas on midi files which I open on synthesia, that's where I learn, I can't read music.

So my question here is:

1-How hard is pathetique mov 1 compared to what I play?

2-Why do people SYSTEMATICALLY rate tempest sonata as being harder than pathetique, if pathetique's first moovement is clearly very very very hard. ( This happens a lot and it's been bugging me since I lost my confidence... ive been playing chopin because I can't choose my next sonata)

3-Recommend me a decent p beethoven sonata, challenging but suitable to my level, it can be of any really. Recooment me something that could suit my abilities. I'm tired of playing nocturnes, they're easy, but I always find them challenging and I take too long to learn them.
I want beethoven...

[kalirren]

1) The technically hardest thing in the Pathetique 1st movt is the left hand tremolo.  If you don't find tremolos difficult, maybe you'll be fine.

2) Every person's technique is different.  Some people find the tremolo in the Pathetique hard.  Some people find the two-note groupings in the Tempest hard.  The second movement of the tempest (especially the left hand where it crosses over) is also pretty difficult.  All in all, the technical and musical challenges of the Tempest are more varied than those in the Pathetique, so it's harder.

3) It's difficult to judge your ability without a video, or at least an audio recording.  Have you studied Opus 49, #'s 1 and 2, and/or Opus 79?  If those are all easy for you, go ahead and try out the Pathetique for size.

[ianw]

The people who set exam syllabuses certainly disagree with you. The pianosyllabus.com website has Op 31 No 2 (Tempest) at grade 10 or 11, while the first movement alone is grade 9.  Op 27 No 2 (Moonlight) is grade 7 (1st movement) and grade 8 (2nd and 3rd mvts). Fur Elise is grade 5. There's no listing for the first mvt of Op 13 (Pathetique) although the whole piece goes at grade 9 or 10, while the third mvt alone is grade 7 or 8.

[bronnestam]

The 2nd movement of Pathétique is not very hard. The third is technically not that outstandingly difficult - although not the easiest I have played  - but I think it is rather hard to interpret. The first movement ... well, I don't find the tremolos difficult at all, although my arm muscles hurt if I try to play too fast, but there is a section in the middle (the key change) which is driving me nuts because some bars are terribly hard to get right. On the other hand, I know how I want this movement to sound so this is all about technique.

In parallel I have studied op 49:2 and I found it easy and nice to play. Now I will continue with op 49:1. I think it is a pity not to learn these easy sonatas as they are helpful when you study the more demanding sonatas.
Beside that I also work with the Rondo, C Major, which I think also lays a good foundation for further sonata studies. The pieces of Beethoven indeed are "supporting each other", as a good Beethoven player described it. He also wrote a lot of "Bagatelles" that can be very useful in many ways.

Even if you happen to be the most talented piano student in history, you will win little and lose a lot by skipping the easier and shorter sonatas and go straight on the challenging ones. I find it a bit alarming that the OT claims to "play the Tempest well" and also says he (?) has played for 1,5 years all in all, is completely self-taught, and cannot read music. Sorry, but this equation seems hard to believe.

[francisco40295]

1) The technically hardest thing in the Pathetique 1st movt is the left hand tremolo.  If you don't find tremolos difficult, maybe you'll be fine.

2) Every person's technique is different.  Some people find the tremolo in the Pathetique hard.  Some people find the two-note groupings in the Tempest hard.  The second movement of the tempest (especially the left hand where it crosses over) is also pretty difficult.  All in all, the technical and musical challenges of the Tempest are more varied than those in the Pathetique, so it's harder.

3) It's difficult to judge your ability without a video, or at least an audio recording.  Have you studied Opus 49, #'s 1 and 2, and/or Opus 79?  If those are all easy for you, go ahead and try out the Pathetique for size.

Look man thanks a lot. You answered exactly as I wanted. If I accidentally step in hard pieces I'll manage, like I did with Moonlight mov 3, I'll manage my way out. Its getting in that's the hard part. I found the sonata 25 absolutely gorgeous, it's 9 minutes of bliss. That's the one I'll tackle next definetely. THe hard part is starting, and when I look back on the pieces I play I assume I must be wrong and you're right. I must be systematically undermining the pieces I play because they seem simple now.

Sometimes I struggle with bach's inventions so I assume I'm never ready for anything more than grade 4, but it's all a matter of effort. See you, I'll definetely learn sonata 25, it's awesome!

[francisco40295]

The people who set exam syllabuses certainly disagree with you. The pianosyllabus.com website has Op 31 No 2 (Tempest) at grade 10 or 11, while the first movement alone is grade 9.  Op 27 No 2 (Moonlight) is grade 7 (1st movement) and grade 8 (2nd and 3rd mvts). Fur Elise is grade 5. There's no listing for the first mvt of Op 13 (Pathetique) although the whole piece goes at grade 9 or 10, while the third mvt alone is grade 7 or 8.

THanks I must have, as usual, underestimated my effort. Looking back it took me like 5 month to learn both moovements properly. Then I was complaining on the first day. It's been almost a week and there haven't been any technical difficulties