Debussy's Clair De Lune: How do I count the third bar?

[mathandmusic]

In bar 3, treble clef, I have trouble counting the two duplets. I have difficulty transitioning from "One-2-3-Two-2-3-Three-2-3" to "One and Two and".

The piece is in 9/8 so I counted it like I would count for a ballad ("One-2-3-Two-2-3-Three-2-3"). When I encountered the duplets, I continued counting "Two-2-3-Three-2-3" and eyeballed the rhythm (I knew that the 2nd note of the duplet had to come after the 2nd note and before the 3rd note of the 3-note rhythm).

This is imprecise as I'm not really counting. How should I go about counting for this rhythm? Should I count "ONE-2-3-TWO-and-THREE-and", thinking in terms of duplets for the duration of the "Two-2-3-Three-2-3"?

[Bob]

Learn to feel it.  Instead of feeling 3 to 2, you could think 3 to 4 to make it more precise.

Otherwise...
Find the least common multiple between 2 and 3.  That's 6.  2 4 6...  3 6...
If you break 6 up into two groups...   123 123
If you break 6 up into three groups... 12 12 12

123123
121212

Or counting in three to start...
1+2+3+   <-- triple
1+a2+a   <-- duple

When it switches to duple/2, that second note lines up with the + of 2 in triple feel.

So if you want them really lined up, learn to feel...
1+2+3+
1 2+ 3

It's the same as learning to play 2 against 3 or 3 against 4.

But it's really the feel, the shift of the division of the beat that changes.  Or that's what the listening would hear. 


Another exercise that can help is to just keep shifting beating duple and triple time.  Break the beat into 2, then 3, and back.   Or 3s and 4s, same idea. 

Debussy isn't helping you any by not having notes on the downbeats.  Makes it trickier.  I'd just mentally 'yell' it out enough until it becomes the feeling.  But if you want it absolutely precise, you could measure it out like above.  You end up in the same place eventually though.

[mathandmusic]

When it switches to duple/2, that second note lines up with the + of 2 in triple feel.

So if you want them really lined up, learn to feel...
1+2+3+
1 2+ 3

Ok. I think I got it: Subdivide 3 beats into 6 sub-beats

One and Two and Three and  (Triple)
One ---  ---- And ----- ----  (Duple)

or more explicitly:

One Two Three Four Five Six  (Triple)
One --- ----- Four ---- ---   (Duple)

[mathandmusic]

Ok. I think I got it: Subdivide 3 beats into 6 sub-beats

One and Two and Three and  (Triple)
One ---  ---- And ----- ----  (Duple)

or more explicitly:

One Two Three Four Five Six  (Triple)
One  --- ----- Four ---- ---   (Duple)

The dashes represent an uncounted sub-beat. The underlined beats are counted. Please verify that I've counted correctly in my recording.

[Bob]

Gffr...  If you counting, 123, for each beat, start on 2.  Get the time going first, then play the first note.

I'm not quite sure where you are.

Just learn how to do this.  It will pay off for a lot of piece.

Learn 2 against 3 (3 against 2).
Tap triplets in your LH while tapping 8ths in your RH. 
Feel it in 3.  Feel it in 2.


In 3....    Meter of 3.  Simple (2, halves)subdivision.
1 2+3       
Or,
L  L  L
R    R

Then switch hands. 


In 2,    (if you're using 1+a, 2+a)    "One and uh, two and uh)
Duple meter, compound (3) subdivision.
1  a2+
L    L
R  R  R


After you've got each engrained -- just the pattern, then the pattern with LH RH, then the pattern with RH LH.  And feeling it in 2  and in 3.  -- try keeping the subdivision the same and shift the feel of the beat from 2 to 3. 

Another idea for this piece -- Just rearticulate the note on the beats.  Debussy wrote it held over the barline.  For practice, play the note again on the barline to get the rhythm down.  After that, just keeping holding the key down and nod your head or press down with the wrist to keep that physical feel of the beat.  Then get rid of that part, esp. a head nod if you're performing it.