Lang Lang

[LaVirtuosa]

Has anyone watched the DVD of his live Carnegie Hall Performance? I thought it was very boring. I much prefer performances in which I do not expect everything to go well. Where we all know that he/she is human aswell. eg Horowitz, Rubinstein etc. He hit about two wrong notes in 90 mins. It was like listening to a computer. The only good thing, I thought, was his sense of tradition. Visually, he looked completely overdone and fake. Does anyone share this opinion with me?

[Troldhaugen]

Yeah, I feel the same way about him. I've listened to some of his recordings and I think they are pretty dry. I mean his techniques are almost flawless..no doubt about that..but he lacks other important elements. I think there are a lot of people out there who can play as well as him.....at least technique wise. I wonder how he catapulted into such stardom in the first place. Just because he replaced Andre Watts at the last minute? still don't understand....

[donjuan]

Has anyone watched the DVD of his live Carnegie Hall Performance? I thought it was very boring. I much prefer performances in which I do not expect everything to go well. Where we all know that he/she is human aswell. eg Horowitz, Rubinstein etc. He hit about two wrong notes in 90 mins. It was like listening to a computer. The only good thing, I thought, was his sense of tradition. Visually, he looked completely overdone and fake. Does anyone share this opinion with me?

so you didnt like it because he didnt play enough wrong notes?? sorry, I cant understand that..

I understand Horowitz plays many wrong notes, but the difference is the Horowitz magic that seems to make them all forgettable and the only thing the listener is left with at the end of the performance is a feeling of having just listened to something miraculous.  With Horowitz, we just dont seem to be bothered with wrong notes because it's the overall effect that matters. 

Lang Lang, despite his somewhat annoying mannerisms, is an exceptional pianist both musically and technically.  Sometimes he does get a little carried away with the music and ends up pounding the poor piano to death in his euphoria (eg. Wagner-Liszt: Tannhauser overture), but he comes across to me anyway as a very sincere musician.  However, I do prefer Yundi Li..

donjuan 

[kempff]

I agree about Horowitz. When he played a wrong note, it was like it is part of that piece, noone's bothered about it. After all it was papa Horowitz

About Lang Lang, although he has achieved alot at this young age, I feel he is not mature enough for "certain" pieces. I don't realy care about mistakes, as there was ABM who is said, he never made single mistake while performing. He was perfect, but was he a computer? certainly not.

[m]

I remember Gilels playing live Schumann's Symphonic etudes and Brahms Paganini in one recital. It was not one single page without a few wrong notes! Nevertheless, nobody had even payed attention to it. And it was in Moscow, where many students could play both pieces without one single wrong note.

Such a Musician!

And Lang Lang... well.... there are many like him. Some are better, some are worse....

[claudio]

i remember this funny televison documentary re. a studio recording of a mozart piano concerto by horowitz. i believe it was recorded and broadcasted by bbc in the 70s.

after the concert, horowitz, his wife and the entourage settled down on a sofa to discuss the performance. all of a sudden, the studio director or producer was approaching to tell horowitz that they had to repeate the whole thing because the
maestro apparently had played a wrong note (s.th. like mozart composed a row of four similar 16th and he had played only 3 and moved on).

after horowitz looked into the score his annoyed face broke into a hilarious and mischievious grin to announce that not he had made a mistake here, but mozart!

i thought that was realy grand 

[kempff]

Exactly, that's the spirit. No one should care about mistakes and wrong notes unless they ruin the sense of that piece.

On a side note, now that we are talking about some pianists making mistakes, here is an story about Rudolf Serkin:

He was playing Hammerklavier sonata at Carnegie hall. He missed the very first jump at the beginning, and went on making the same mistake in the numerous returns of this jump in the 1st movement. Also in the 4th movement, in the fugue, he arrived at a unison passage starting on A in both hands, however, he started one hand on A whoile the other was on G and he lost control causing in dissonant chords going all over down that passage.

[julie391]

of course, he lacks the intellectual rigour of arrau, brendel etc..

BUT

i DO enjoy listening to him, even when he bangs the piano senseless.
spontineity should be encouraged in music-making.

[nick]

Has anyone watched the DVD of his live Carnegie Hall Performance? I thought it was very boring. I much prefer performances in which I do not expect everything to go well. Where we all know that he/she is human aswell. eg Horowitz, Rubinstein etc. He hit about two wrong notes in 90 mins. It was like listening to a computer. The only good thing, I thought, was his sense of tradition. Visually, he looked completely overdone and fake. Does anyone share this opinion with me?

Sounds like psychological help is needed here: uncomfortable when others don't faulter.

Nick

[julie391]

haha, yes indeed

i have heard these same complaints about hamelin.

horowitz is a funny one, becuase for example in his rach 2nd sonata - he hit many wrong notes in climatic sections - the only way they enhance the piece is if they make it sound better as music

wrong notes arent good, but sometimes they actually make a piece sound better.

[chromatickler]

The best sounding wrong note i've heard is at the end of Lisitsa's live prokofiev sonata7. Although i suspect that's a delibrate (tho spur of the moment) re-write. In any case, it shows her insane comedic genius. 

[julie391]

i am familiar with her playing and admire her style

her sheer aggressive bravura is unusual among female pianists, though i have yet to hear musicality on the level of argerich - another bravura female

[Motrax]

To address the first topic, I find Lang Lang to be a rather superficial pianist. He seems to have no concept of the form or overall structure of a piece. Listening to him reminds me of someone sightreading rather well, having never heard the piece before. His getting carried away with showing off technique is inexcusable, as it is for any any other pianist. His physical motions are pretty absurd, but if he played well, that wouldn't really be much of an issue.

However, not missing a note is not necessarily a bad thing... we all try to do it. One shouldn't be faulted for that alone, no matter what other problems you might have with their music.

This comparison with Yundi Li and Lang Lang is getting tiresome. Li is a wonderful pianist in his own right, and because there's another popular Chinese pianist roaming about doesn't mean the two must be compared at every turn. The two are utterly dissimilar, and Li is in a league of his own which Lang Lang would never reach if he continues his theatric, empty playing.

"Aggressive Bravura" is not exactly uncommon in femaile pianists. Delarocha, Argerich, Kern, and Nikoleyeva (off the top of my head) all posses the ability to beat the hell out of a piano, and certainly do so on occasion. Helene Grimaux does not play with such aggressive flair, but you could just as well attribute that to a French style, rather than a style common among females. To be quite honest, I don't think there is any consistant difference between male and female playing, when it comes to a professional level. One cannot listen to a recording and say "that's a lady playing."

[julie391]

i agree that when it comes to form and structure - he isnt very good.

but this isnt why i listen to him, i enjoy his spontineity, and i admit to enjoying some 'random insanity' ensueing from some of his interprative decisions/whims

but i agree about yundi li, he is a totally different pianist, and better IMO

i just defend langlang because i get sick of people bashing him

[super_ardua]

I don't mind Lang Lang.  He's good,  but his interpretation sounds improvised on the spur of the moment. Reminds me of the 19th century virtuoso - much about impressing the audience .

Barely makes any mistakes though,  but is more of a showman.

However i would prefer to listen to Yundi Li (sometimes),  and Argerich, Howard, Hough etc. (most of the time)

[julie391]

thats a very acute observation - he IMPROVISES his interpretation

which is inherently hit and miss - but IMO very exciting too

[DarkWind]

Him, I've never thought of him as a bad pianist. Although, he does move his hands way too much, and needs to be able to color passages more clearly. I also think he is a bit musically immature. Not the kind of person you would see playing something like, say, Barber's Piano Sonata, Op. 26.

[julie391]

indeed, but this trend of calling him 'the worst pianist' is just stupid

[Tash]

i didn't think he was a bad pianist, his playing was lovely provided i didn't watch him, cos his facial expressions annoyed the hell out of me- he kept looking towards the audience which i really don't like.

[julie391]

this is really a superficial extra-musical matter

it seems to be one of the reasons he is popular actually - so you are in the minority

i personally find watching him VERY FUNNY 

[Tash]

it wasn't funny it was damn annoying! i was like stop looking at the audience and focus on what you're bloody playing!

[tibidi]

Hi!

[tibidi]

I personally feel that Lang Lang shouldn't have chosen music as his line although he has already made a fortune these few years by performing hundred over concerts  each year. I have never come across a pianist playing like Lang Lang. Do you think he has the ability to understand music? He is born without such ability obviously. No training is going to improve his playing. Why do you think he always wears that kind of fake expresion on his face? To hide his inablity to feel music. Why do think he made so much body movements while playing in the concert halls? To make up for his inablity to excite you with his music and to draw you away from paying too much attention to his music. He is just a product of forced training by his father since he was three years old.

[julie391]

you are wrong

noone in their right mind would doubt that he is innately very musical

[tibidi]

If he is musical, I would have enjoyed his playing, but I  must say that I could hardly enjoy anything played by Lang Lang. His phrasing doesn't make sense at all. You won't find any other pianists  playing  like him. The reason could be that no other pianist had been forced by thier parent to practise piano as hard as Lang Lang. He childhood day was a misery due to long hours of practice every day. One of his childhood piano teacher never liked his playing. It was a few years after  he went to US that a group of people including his US piano teacher started to market him as a concert pianist. Many music critics nowaday started to criticize his music. That is why he is now relying on huge propaganda for survival.

Music is not just technique!

[julie391]

i dont like all of his playing

but what you are saying is purely subjective!

this is just your own taste - i dont enjoy everyone's playing - and when i am asked what i think , i simply say its not to my taste - i DONT go around calling them unmusical

[Motrax]

Well, I don't believe he's particularly musical either. But then again, I have similar feelings about Argerich as well, though for different reasons. In any event, it's not wrong to call a musician unmusical if that's what you think - we're each entitled to our own opinion.

[julie391]

but its wrong when it is obviously an opinion based upon personal taste

[tibidi]

I mean usually when a child is not musical,  his parent wouldn't have forced him to choose music for his career. That is why we don't often hear a playing as unmusical as Lang Lang's. Martha Argerich's Chopin may not be that good, at least not as good as Kissin's, but her many concertos are better than Kissin's for sure. To me, Martha Argerich is quite musical.

If you think it's based on my own taste, what about other well known music critics who had  criticized Lang Lang harshly?

[xvimbi]

i dont like all of his playing

but what you are saying is purely subjective!

this is just your own taste - i dont enjoy everyone's playing - and when i am asked what i think , i simply say its not to my taste - i DONT go around calling them unmusical

julie391, you seem to get offended very easily. Calm down.

In The Arts, it is often difficult to distinguish between a performance that is not to somebody's liking and an outright bad performance. Speaking about Lang Lang, most people tend to think that he does not possess a lot of musicality, and I personally agree wholeheartedly. I have never witnessed a more flamboyant, pushy and empty performance of Tchaikowsy's piano concerto No. 1 than his. In other words, he is bad, not different.

Radical ideas and novel interpretations rarely translate into something truely outstanding. It mostly translates into rubbish. Lang Lang is producing a lot of rubbish right now. A lot of eventually famous pianists did the same at his age. Perhaps, he will come around and enlighten us with something profound in the future. At the moment, he is a spoiled "superstar" who runs around with Ray Ban shades and feels really cool about himself. The way he gives autographs is appaling and extremely arrogant, and it translates into his playing. There are a lot of other young and promising pianists on the circuit who deserve much more attention.

[julie391]

I mean usually when a child is not musical,  his parent wouldn't have forced him to choose music for his career. That is why we don't often hear a playing as unmusical as Lang Lang's. Martha Argerich's Chopin may not be that good, at least not as good as Kissin's, but her many concertos are better than Kissin's for sure. To me, Martha Argerich is quite musical.

If you think it's based on my own taste, what about other well known music critics who had  criticized Lang Lang harshly?

its a stupid trend, some critics cant think for themselves

i heard a different story, that langlang wasnt forced, and that it was through his won will that he kept up his passion

[julie391]

i dont like all of his playing

but what you are saying is purely subjective!

this is just your own taste - i dont enjoy everyone's playing - and when i am asked what i think , i simply say its not to my taste - i DONT go around calling them unmusical

julie391, you seem to get offended very easily. Calm down.

In The Arts, it is often difficult to distinguish between a performance that is not to somebody's liking and an outright bad performance. Speaking about Lang Lang, most people tend to think that he does not possess a lot of musicality, and I personally agree wholeheartedly. I have never witnessed a more flamboyant, pushy and empty performance of Tchaikowsy's piano concerto No. 1 than his. In other words, he is bad, not different.

Radical ideas and novel interpretations rarely translate into something truely outstanding. It mostly translates into rubbish. Lang Lang is producing a lot of rubbish right now. A lot of eventually famous pianists did the same at his age. Perhaps, he will come around and enlighten us with something profound in the future. At the moment, he is a spoiled "superstar" who runs around with Ray Ban shades and feels really cool about himself. The way he gives autographs is appaling and extremely arrogant, and it translates into his playing. There are a lot of other young and promising pianists on the circuit who deserve much more attention.

i agree partially, some of the things he does are terrible - but he is exciting and interesting to me

i dont look for profundity in his playing , i look for sparks of sponineity

he may be arrogant, but i still think its arrogant to call him unmusical

i think he is an interesting young pianist, but i do completely agree that many better young pianists are out there

[tibidi]

Will Lang Lang improve when he gets older? I am pessimistic. You can improve your technique, but hardly your musicality. Your musicality is inborn, it's normally revealed when you are still very young. If it's possible to change oneself from unmusical to musical, Lang Lang would have changed himself long ago before he started his career as a concert pianist and every pianist would have played musically, but you do notice that some are not as musical as the others. For example, I don't find Alfred Brendel and Richter as musical as others like Zimerman, Kissin or Martha Argerich.

[julie391]

i think you are confusing musicality with musical maturity

i think lang lang could improve his approach if he had the inclination to

[tibidi]

Musicality is something that comes naturally with a person, it's your natural ability. That is why it can hardly be acquired by learning. Musical maturity grows in you. Some are very mature musically while they are still very young and their  musical maturity keep growing as they get older and older, while others just don't have enough natural musicality to allow his musical maturity to grow.

[julie391]

i think langlang is evidently a very musical person - his playing is often very brash - BUT i think this is just due to him with all heat and no brain.

i think he is an honest and sincere musician - he plays what he feels

[LaVirtuosa]

can you imagine lang lang playing liszt's sonata? i would leave after 1 minute.

Lang Lang is like pop music. it is so famous at the time. everyone knows about it. everyone loves it. but after 5 years nobody listens to it.
on the other hand, horowitz, argerich and other pianists from the 'golden era of piano' are like bach, mozart and chopin's music. these are immortal things, which for some reason have lasted for centuries, and touched everyone, despite changes in fashion, technology and society. in 100 years lang lang will be forgotten, but Rubinstein's kind will not be. that's my opinion.

[Nightscape]

Keep in mind... that Lang Lang is only 22 years old.  He has his entire career ahead of him, decades really to improve his musicality, etc.  Most other pianists (including the really famous old ones) do not have his technique (accuracy, etc) at that young of an age.  Now that Lang Lang has gotten a good hold on his technique, that means he can focus mainly on improving musicality from now on.  Of course, that is if he hasn't already gotten a big head over his fame.

[tibidi]

Lang Lang is certainly over rated by some music critics. These critics are either having ear problems or they are just biased towards Lang Lang. I think Lang Lang's music  is only suitable for people who haven't had enough experience in classical music.  His technique is better than some older pianists for sure, but among the younger generation, he is not  that outstanding.  I much prefer Volodos or Kissin for their dexterity and precision. There is little fire or passion when he performed in concert halls, his piano sound was often drown by the orchestra. His tone colour is no where if you compare him with Gilels. Lang Lang has been over rated even for his technique. He will probably  last for quite a while with all the big publicity machine behind him, but his recordings will be regarded as rubish for sure by the  next generation.

I will never believe that Lang Lang will improve and finally possess musicality. In my opinion, no one is able to change oneself from being unmusical to musical finally. The best Lang Lang can do is never to touch pieces that require more musicality such as Grieg concerto which he had stopped playing for a long time now.

[julie391]

can you imagine lang lang playing liszt's sonata? i would leave after 1 minute.

Lang Lang is like pop music. it is so famous at the time. everyone knows about it. everyone loves it. but after 5 years nobody listens to it.
on the other hand, horowitz, argerich and other pianists from the 'golden era of piano' are like bach, mozart and chopin's music. these are immortal things, which for some reason have lasted for centuries, and touched everyone, despite changes in fashion, technology and society. in 100 years lang lang will be forgotten, but Rubinstein's kind will not be. that's my opinion.

i wouldnt leave any recital of his, is be gripped to hear what he does with it - id expect to hear new exciting things.

and about the pop music comparison(regardless of how weak it is) - GREAT pop music will also endure a very long time, wait and see

[gezze]

i remember this funny televison documentary re. a studio recording of a mozart piano concerto by horowitz. i believe it was recorded and broadcasted by bbc in the 70s.

after the concert, horowitz, his wife and the entourage settled down on a sofa to discuss the performance. all of a sudden, the studio director or producer was approaching to tell horowitz that they had to repeate the whole thing because the
maestro apparently had played a wrong note (s.th. like mozart composed a row of four similar 16th and he had played only 3 and moved on).

after horowitz looked into the score his annoyed face broke into a hilarious and mischievious grin to announce that not he had made a mistake here, but mozart!

i thought that was realy grand 

I think I have seen the same documentary. Giulini was the director, completely overwhelmed by Horowitz´s behaviour.  I remember Horowitz saying that for him Mozart was the composer "number one" (something I wouldn´t expect from him) and explaining a necessary adjustement in the coda of the secondo tempo of KV488, because "Mozart made a mistake".  Of course, he announced  this modification to Giulini, who had to inform right away the orchestra about that, in order to have a consistent perfomance between piano and orchestra!  And it is definitely better like that!
 
Not only Liszt needs to be "revised" by the musicians....

[Maja81]

  Lang Lang has a great personality and I think you can hear that in his performances also. Has anyone listened to his new release, yet? I am excited to hear what it is like.