Playing in a off-key piano

[faa2010]

Do you think it is possible to play in an off-key piano?

Can you provide a good sound in an off-key piano?

[iansinclair]

by "off-key" do you mean out of tune?  Because if you do, in general the answer would be not really -- but I know of at least one piece of very serious classical music which requires that the piano be slightly out of tune to sound right (Aaron Copland's Rodeo).

[gore234]

If one note is flat then it wont sound good but if the whole piano is flat then the piano will sound in tune with itself.

[j_menz]

if the whole piano is flat then the piano will sound in tune with itself.

Not necessarily.  First it would be rare for each note to be flat by exactly the required amount, but one also needs to consider that most notes have more than one string, and these detune with respect to one another quite noticeable.

Of course, there is a vast repertoire of music where being even quite seriously out of tune would be little noticed.

[indianajo]

I found, after I got rid of my tuner, he was tuning my piano flat.  The piano was only three years old, WT*!  Everything on record (LP) was always 1/4 tone off C# or Ab or something. 
Now that I tune my piano myself, bands on records play in D or A or G, like the easy chords in the guitar book. 
The tuner installed a $125 humidifier to address the one note that would go flat in a couple of months.  That was a complete waste of money.  He should have put sandpaper in the hole or bought an oversized pin or something.  The dealership gave me $800 off this piano versus the one at the mall store;  there had to be something wrong, it wasn't the finish.  This tuner had paperwork from some professional tuner organization and worked for the Steinway dealer.  I've got to get on the internet to learn about these repair methods?  Thanks pianostreet and organforum members. 
Other than not being in tune with records, the piano sounded fine tuned 1/4 step flat. 

[hfmadopter]

  He should have put sandpaper in the hole or bought an oversized pin or something.  The dealership gave me $800 off this piano versus the one at the mall store;  there had to be something wrong, it wasn't the finish.  

Odd to have a loose pin in a new piano, that kind of sucks. One would think that on a new piano a warranty would have covered that situation. Now that it's not new any longer and you tune it yourself, I guess the repair is on you.

 For a loose pin the first action generally taken is to drive it deeper into the hole. It's hammered in deeper with string tension let off some and then pulled back up to tune. The pins are tapered and the driving allows for a new bite into the wood. It's driven just enough for more bite or proper bite often by feel ( though there is a  torque specification). The second line of repair is to remove the old pin and bore the wood of the block to the proper size for a larger pin. The pin and proper boring bit can be purchased from a piano supply place like Vandaking or any number of other places. However, those holes are not 90 deg to the surface of the block, there is a slight angle, so it takes proper set up.

I suspect someone got over zealous with a tuning wrench on your piano. Hopefully it's not a defect in the pin block material. FWIW, I've driven in maybe a dozen pins on my grand and they are very tight, one  is a tad too tight actually, I got carried away. Yes, really it needs repinning but I just keep it percolating and nurse it along.

[indianajo]

I lived 200 miles from the piano dealership when i bought the discounted Sohmer, and got another $100 off because they wouldn't send somebody out that far to tune it after no delivery ( I hauled it home in a U-haul trailer).  I was in the Army at the time anyway, no time off Mon-Sat to meet a piano tuner.  The loose pin didn't become obvious until I started having it tuned when I moved to Louisville after I got out of the Army. 
Thanks for the tips, I think I'll try the Baldwin trick of stuffing a shim of sandpaper in the hole first.  I'm putting the job off until I remember to buy a nylon head hammer. I really don't think a Craftsman steel ball peen hammer is the right tool for removing and replacing pins.  I'm a bit nervous about extracting the pin without putting grooves in it, too. Vice grip leaves marks.  I'm starting to practice the two piano Rhapsody in Blue though, it is time to put the second piano (Sohmer) back in action.  Also at 0% humidity today (higher inside, I use unvented gas heat) the one key (b2) on the Steinway is sticking badly; I need to get the $2800 piano with the broken wire back in action.  Then I can spend months contemplating the Steinway action without stopping practicing. 

[hfmadopter]

Thanks for the tips, I think I'll try the Baldwin trick of stuffing a shim of sandpaper in the hole first.  I'm putting the job off until I remember to buy a nylon head hammer. I really don't think a Craftsman steel ball peen hammer is the right tool for removing and replacing pins.  I'm a bit nervous about extracting the pin without putting grooves in it, too. Vice grip leaves marks.  I'm starting to practice the two piano

indianajo, you might be interested in this thread I will link you to. Meanwhile, I don't use a nylon hammer, there is a tool that fits over the pin and you hit that with a regular steel hammer. It's made for driving pins. You are an ingenious kind of guy you can probably devise something ! As to fearing doing this, nothing to fear, whisper a little prayer and say here it goes ! Wind that sucker out if that is your choice of routes to go.

Here is the thread: https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1697484/Pin%20loose%20when%20tuning,%20how%20to%20.html

[indianajo]

Okay, thanks for the link.  I watched the video of the russian guy putting cardboard in the pin hole; it seems to me the tuning pins have a coarse thread on the bottom?  I thought they were just a straight taper fit. 
That lead off to a "why the key sticks" video, which seemed to require less special tools than string replacement.  I may take look at the sticky key on the  Steinway the next couple of days, that doesn't look nearly as scary as string replacement.  I'd best do the sticky key now anyway, it is way worse in the winter and another time of year I might not be able to see what was wrong. 
I did actually finally look at the tuning tools page at Steve's piano supply, he has a rant at the top of the page about inferior C****** steel and tools.  One reason I've put buying tuning tools off so long, I hate buying anything from C**** unless it is used, and I haven't seen any used piano tools in any flea markets or anywhere that I usually buy stuff abandoned by the heirs of dead craftsmen.   The senior coworker on the last job satisfied the requirement to have a full set of tools by buying Harbor Freight imitation tools, and we spent a lot of time trying to drill out wallowed out allen screws or turned off bolt heads.  But Steve's will have to wait somemore; I went to the dentist Monday and there is another little $800 problem that can't wait.