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why hanon?!?! (Read 3339 times)

Offline julie391

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why hanon?!?!
« on: November 19, 2004, 10:31:52 PM »
of all books of technical exercises, why has hanon's the most popular?

i have seen all of the most popular exercise books, and this looks to be the least useful of all..

why?!?!

piano sheet music of The Virtuoso Pianist Part 1 (1-20)


Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #1 on: November 19, 2004, 10:58:22 PM »
Hanon is good because it is easy to learn and use. How he goes through and trains every single finger combination is good to target whatever fingers bother you and needs strengthening. You find they become pretty useless once you're well develoepd in your single finger combinations but its good to throw in a hanon for warm-up now and again.
"The biggest risk in life is to take no risk at all."
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Offline julie391

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #2 on: November 19, 2004, 11:06:04 PM »
dohnanyi looks to be a much better method

Offline Daniel_piano

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #3 on: November 19, 2004, 11:48:02 PM »
of all books of technical exercises, why has hanon's the most popular?

i have seen all of the most popular exercise books, and this looks to be the least useful of all..

why?!?!

Why the Hanon is the most popular?
Bacause Hanon is the only one that made such big promises even though he knew they couldn't be kept
We know that people tend to vote for those who make a lot of promises that won't be kept instead of voting for those that are honest enough not to promise you the world but that keep all their pledges

(No reference to any real president is intended or should be inferred)
Yeah, right....  ;)

Daniel
"Sometimes I lie awake at night and ask "Why me?" Then a voice answers "Nothing personal, your name just happened to come up.""

Offline julie391

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #4 on: November 19, 2004, 11:55:59 PM »
haha, indeed the preface is misleading

Offline Tash

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #5 on: November 20, 2004, 11:06:41 AM »
cos people like to do useless things that seem to be usefull, like productive procrastination eg. re-writing my study notes in different colours to stick on my walls is really not very helpful but looks like it is and thus feels productive;)
'J'aime presque autant les images que la musique' Debussy

Offline julie391

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #6 on: November 20, 2004, 11:39:26 AM »
my point is - why specifically is HANON the most popular exercise method?

Offline Daniel_piano

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #7 on: November 20, 2004, 12:40:58 PM »
my point is - why specifically is HANON the most popular exercise method?

I've already answered to this one ;)
HANON is specifically the most popular exercise method book because HANON is the only book that made a lot of promises that can't be kept
Hanon promise people that:
1) just with one book you'll get all the technique needed to play pianos a virtuoso a the whole book can be completed in less than one year

All other method, either don't make such unrealistic promises or deal only with one specific aspect of technique, not the whole technique matter

So, when a student want to become a good pianist quickly it is eager to try a method that promise you to provide you all the technique you will ever need in less than a year
No other book has such premises and that's why HANON is more popular than other technique exercises books

Daniel
"Sometimes I lie awake at night and ask "Why me?" Then a voice answers "Nothing personal, your name just happened to come up.""

Offline julie391

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #8 on: November 20, 2004, 01:37:10 PM »
i doubt people can be that gullible - id like to hear bernhard's opinion on this matter

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #9 on: November 20, 2004, 04:00:39 PM »
God has already answered this question before. He is basically saying the same as the previous post.

Offline julie391

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #10 on: November 20, 2004, 04:03:35 PM »
hehe, well this is really rather disturbing

how can so many people be so gullible and naive?

Offline Brian Healey

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #11 on: November 20, 2004, 05:48:08 PM »
Quote
how can so many people be so gullible and naive?

Have you lived on the planet Earth very long? :)

People are always looking for an easy way. There are tons of people every day who go out and buy books and video tapes that promise to teach you piano or guitar not in a year, but in an hour!

Offline julie391

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #12 on: November 20, 2004, 05:50:24 PM »
i guess im the naive one for having too much faith in people's common sense..

even rachmaninov studied this, and recommended it

but then again...he did see a hypnotist ;)

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #13 on: November 20, 2004, 09:22:31 PM »
low blow man.

horowitz also played Hanon, scales, and arpeggios.


Offline mosis

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #14 on: November 20, 2004, 10:19:10 PM »
low blow man.

horowitz also played Hanon, scales, and arpeggios.



Coincidentally, Horowitz also had really shitty technique.  ::)

Offline julie391

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #15 on: November 20, 2004, 10:29:57 PM »
despite frequest wrong notes in his later life - he did have a SUPERB technique, his command of earth shattering sonority is just phenomenal.

Offline mosis

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #16 on: November 21, 2004, 03:17:47 AM »
despite frequest wrong notes in his later life - he did have a SUPERB technique, his command of earth shattering sonority is just phenomenal.

The purpose of Hanon's exercises aren't to develop earth-shattering sonority. He developed that of his own accord.

Offline Maui

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #17 on: November 21, 2004, 12:20:12 PM »
Hanon is popular because people who did it, even if they know that is bullshit, keep recommending it.

Offline julie391

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #18 on: November 21, 2004, 12:53:30 PM »
despite frequest wrong notes in his later life - he did have a SUPERB technique, his command of earth shattering sonority is just phenomenal.

The purpose of Hanon's exercises aren't to develop earth-shattering sonority. He developed that of his own accord.

yes, but my point was that he had a unique and great technique of his own.

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #19 on: November 21, 2004, 09:14:27 PM »
low blow man.

horowitz also played Hanon, scales, and arpeggios.



Coincidentally, Horowitz also had really shitty technique.  ::)

and which horowitz were you listening too?

Offline julie391

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #20 on: November 21, 2004, 11:52:17 PM »
perhaps the drugged up hyper-insane horowitz of his later years

but even then - he had a great technique and made some superb recordings

i might be criticised - but i love his later(drugged up ) live recording of the mephisto

Offline bunbuns

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #21 on: November 22, 2004, 05:32:01 PM »
I know this girl in my class who is a beginner and the teacher gave her the hanon book she won't stop playing warm ups everyday in class on the grand and it is annoying!! and I don't think her playing has improved maybe even decreased I dont think she practices anything BUT HANON ??? WUTEVER

Offline jazzyprof

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #22 on: November 22, 2004, 07:43:33 PM »
I really don't think Hanon deserves the bad rap it's getting from some.  As they say in medicine: "First do no harm".  Will playing Hanon exercises harm you in any way?  No, if you play without tension and without doing unnatural things.  Will it help you?  I venture to guess that most living concert pianists have at some point in their lives played Hanon.  It is actually pretty good for jazz pianists if they play Hanon in all keys...emphasis on "in all keys".  An improvising pianist needs intimate familiarity with the keyboard terrain in all keys.  Many jazz solos have bits where you have a sequence or pattern of notes which you repeat some interval higher or lower.  Hanon has a lot of these sequenced patterns.  Of course in a jazz solo you're not necessarily going to be playing Hanon sequences.  You create your own or you steal licks from great players.  There are jazz players who often play rapid-fire unison solo lines two octaves apart (e.g. Phineas Newborn, Benny Green).  Playing Hanon can actually help with that.    Oscar Peterson worked on Hanon and Czerny...but also Bach Inventions.  Later on, in order to get a more singing style his teacher gave him Chopin etudes.  Hanon certainly didn't hurt him.  Did he waste his time playing them?  I guess that's something we'll never know. 
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Offline Daniel_piano

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #23 on: November 22, 2004, 10:54:20 PM »
I really don't think Hanon deserves the bad rap it's getting from some.  As they say in medicine: "First do no harm".  Will playing Hanon exercises harm you in any way?

Yes, it can hurt your musicality a lot
I've friend whose musicality they had while playing was something marvelous, and now after working with Hanon they play all pieces mechanically withou emotion, like robots

On the other hand Hanon deserves all the bad rep and critique just for the fact that he made absurd misleading claims
Had he been less presumptuos his book would have been just another technical exercises book that one can like or not, but after all that unrealistic promises plus the fact that he had his book pushed in accademies through interested donations
(in fact there were a time in the 1930 in which a teacher could not choose not to use it, they were not allowed to crticized it now they can have their voice heard in accademies) his book is an example of dishonesty and possibly dangerous

Daniel
"Sometimes I lie awake at night and ask "Why me?" Then a voice answers "Nothing personal, your name just happened to come up.""

Offline julie391

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #24 on: November 22, 2004, 11:04:59 PM »
I know this girl in my class who is a beginner and the teacher gave her the hanon book she won't stop playing warm ups everyday in class on the grand and it is annoying!! and I don't think her playing has improved maybe even decreased I dont think she practices anything BUT HANON ??? WUTEVER

lol, you should educate her then

Offline Daniel_piano

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #25 on: November 22, 2004, 11:10:03 PM »
I know this girl in my class who is a beginner and the teacher gave her the hanon book she won't stop playing warm ups everyday in class on the grand and it is annoying!! and I don't think her playing has improved maybe even decreased I dont think she practices anything BUT HANON ??? WUTEVER

lol, you should educate her then

My Hanonh book has a page with rhythm variations
It was added my Longo after evidence of tendonitis and bad musicality resulting from Hanon
Instead of playing an exercise for 10 times, just use 10 different rhythms one each time
This way you even improve your musicality, you don get tendons problem from mechanical repetitions (and with the lack of musicality it's impossible not to play mechanically eventually) and it even makes Hanon fun
I posted few years ago the list of rhythm variations, it's now accepted that Hanon is "dangerous" withou the rhythm variations

Daniel
 
"Sometimes I lie awake at night and ask "Why me?" Then a voice answers "Nothing personal, your name just happened to come up.""

Offline BoliverAllmon

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Re: why hanon?!?!
«Reply #26 on: November 23, 2004, 12:20:07 AM »
I really don't think Hanon deserves the bad rap it's getting from some.  As they say in medicine: "First do no harm".  Will playing Hanon exercises harm you in any way?

Yes, it can hurt your musicality a lot
I've friend whose musicality they had while playing was something marvelous, and now after working with Hanon they play all pieces mechanically withou emotion, like robots

On the other hand Hanon deserves all the bad rep and critique just for the fact that he made absurd misleading claims
Had he been less presumptuos his book would have been just another technical exercises book that one can like or not, but after all that unrealistic promises plus the fact that he had his book pushed in accademies through interested donations
(in fact there were a time in the 1930 in which a teacher could not choose not to use it, they were not allowed to crticized it now they can have their voice heard in accademies) his book is an example of dishonesty and possibly dangerous

Daniel

playing the piano can kill your musicality. You have to consciously think of musicality. If you are not careful, even a Chopin Ballade will sound mechanical and robotic if you don't work on dynamics, phrasing, and the such.