Pathétique or Moonlight?

[schwartzer]

Hello everyone,

My teacher and I are looking forward to learn on of these two. However, I already learnt by myself the 1st and 2nd movement of Op. 27 no.2 but I never learnt any movement of Op. 13.

Now I know many people believe that Pathétique is a very good sonata to learn first, but in this case, would it still be?

Thanks in advance

[chessman]

I gues it depends on how much time you can invest in it, they are both not easy pieces, Pathetique is much harder though and since you never played any movements of it, then lots and lots of work is needed But it's great so again- it really depends on time You could learn 3rd movement of Moonlight in the "meantime" as practice. Thats my opinion at least.

[theholygideons]

DO NOT PLAY PATHETIQUE, YOU WILL DAMAGE YOUR LEFT HAND AND NEVER BE ABLE TO PLAY AGAIN.

[schwartzer]

DO NOT PLAY PATHETIQUE, YOU WILL DAMAGE YOUR LEFT HAND AND NEVER BE ABLE TO PLAY AGAIN.

What, lol?

And thanks for the input, chessman!

[bronnestam]

The first movement of the Pathétique is physically hard with all the tremolos for the left hand BUT

- you don't have to play it like you were chased by the devil. I play it in half tempo and it still sounds pretty good that way. I leave the turbo speed for the professionals.
- pracitice by "cheating". Play the tremolos as simple chords/octaves until you are 100 % comfortable with the bass line. That will make you play the tremolos in a more relaxed way and you will spare yourself a lot.


You can also start with Mvt 2, which is a beautiful piece which works as a standalone piece as well. Hey, nothing is holy here, skip the parts you cannot master yet! Just be imaginative, I bet Beethoven would appreciate it if he knew.

[chessman]

bronnestam- I agree with that too. Second movement of Pathetique is amazing

[schwartzer]

Wow, some great advices here.

Indeed, the 2nd movement of Pathétique is one of Beethoven's most beautiful sonata movements. I was thinking about choosing the moonlight first since it has just 1 "hard" movement. Pathétique has 1 and a half, I'd say, since the 3rd movement can be a bit tricky. Can't forget the 2nd movement is harder than it seems to be.

I actually don't have that much trouble with tremolos. They seem to come in a very natural way for me.

[bronnestam]

I thought the 3rd movement was easy after my long and hard struggle with mv 1 (the war is not over yet). Well ... at first. Technically it was not that difficult, although there are a few complicated turns ... but when it came to interpretation, it got worse. It is a difficult piece in the musical aspect, especially if you see it as this final part of a whole sonata and not just a standalone piece ... What does it say? How do you play it?

The 3rd movement of Moonlight is technically hard, at least to me, but maybe I will crack the code soon. But musically it is just a "free improvisation" over movement 1, Beethoven going loose over the keys so to speak. Maybe movement 2 is included too, I have not analyzed it very much yet. I think I should try it soon, but aim for a very slow tempo. (No, I'm not an idiot, of course you have to start in a slow tempo! But sometimes your goal is to speed up as quickly as possible, and sometimes you keep on playing slowly as an exercise. BTW try that with Chopin's etudes as well, they work fine in slow tempo too!)

[schwartzer]

Chopin's Etudes still scare me. I'm able to play Op. 10 No. 3 only, haha. Guess I'll tackle one after I finish Moonlight. I'm getting the hang of it pretty quick. It's much easier to read the sheet than it is to read Pathétique.

My next Beethoven sonata will *probably* be Pathétique, but certainly not soon.

[jeffkonkol]

the tremolo's in pathetique are one of the main reasons to do it.  It is a great technique to improve upon, and pathetique is virtually a chopin etude with respect to how much if builds that technique...... (and it's a really cool piece)

if you are damaging your left hand in all caps... you are doing it wrong  :-)

[schwartzer]

Today I read through Pathétique's 1st movement sheet. It doesn't seem to too hard, but I believe the part with the right hand over left hand may take a while to be performed at full speed. I'm just not used to this technique.

Having so many tremolo's makes it even easier to read through.

How's the development section though? It seems kinda hard.

[liszt1022]

I've done mvt 1 of Pathetique and all of Moonlight. It's actually mvt 3 of Pathetique that's giving me trouble. The left hand in that just doesn't come out like I want. Moonlight had all right-hand issues for me.
So maybe it depends how confident your left hand is?
Mvt 1 of Pathetique didn't bother me much, except for memorization of the recap, which is always a problem for me in sonata form.
Practice mvt 1 of Pathetique with as little pedal as you can so your LH doesn't get lazy.

[jeffkonkol]

with respect to the cross-over ... the first instance of it is easier for me than the second instance as you aren't crossing nearly so far.  Be careful to control and create a difference on the low ascending voice (where you are crossed over) and the descending mordents.  Also... controlling the volume on the held whole note on the left hand can be tricky - needs to be heard, but can never be so obvious as to distract from the other voices going on.

it is a really neat section

[schwartzer]

"Also... controlling the volume on the held whole note on the left hand can be tricky - needs to be heard, but can never be so obvious as to distract from the other voices going on."

Definitely the hardest part, haha.

I'm done with moonlight now, learned all the notes, just need speed. I tried pathetique for a couple of measures and it's much "easier" than it seems to be.

[Bob]

How about both?

[schwartzer]

Yea, bob, I was thinking about this. I already learned the notes of moonlight, just need to get 'em all up to speed. I was taking a look at pathétique the other day, playing random parts of it, and it doesn't seem to be too hard. I may end up learning them back to back.