Help! Nocturne op 27 no 1 piu mosso section!

[rjgrech]

i have a show coming up on may 8th and Ive basically finished the first page of this piece and have moved on the the 2nd page the piu mosso middle section the harmonics are very hard as the right hand chords have to be played in sync with the left hand rapid 7 note alteration. If you have performed this piece please give me some advice on it. Do you think I have enough time to master it by the 8th or should i switch to one of my alternate pieces the nocturne op 55 no 1 or the prelude op 28 no 15?

[j_menz]

The left hand is three triplets to the bar..... where does the 7 come in?

[iansinclair]

The left hand is three triplets to the bar..... where does the 7 come in?

That's sort of what I was wondering... the right hand is a very straightforward dotted quarter/eighth/quarter rhythm against an equally simple 9/8 left hand.  You may need to practice them separately for a while, perhaps?

As to getting it by May 8th, if it is well within your technical ability you may be able to do it, although getting the melody line to sing properly isn't quite as simple as it looks (but is really important).  If it is a technical stretch for you...

[rjgrech]

The left hand is three triplets to the bar..... where does the 7 come in?

i mean the section for the left hand starts with c then to an g then an alteration between g sharp and a ending on the g sharp these notes are altered 7 times the 7th being the g sharp

[j_menz]

I'm afraid I haven't a clue where you are talking bout. How many bars into the piu mosso section are we talking? And by G, do you mean Fx?

[hfmadopter]

You could listen to Rubinstein to see if it sounds like a stretch to you:

[rjgrech]

I'm afraid I haven't a clue where you are talking bout. How many bars into the piu mosso section are we talking? And by G, do you mean Fx?

the first measure and yes my mistake i mean Fx i mean the triplets they are rapid alterations basically and played with the right hand i find myself losing track of the counting for the left. im looking for a way to remedy this as well as some tips for the large octave jumps right before the alteration into a flat major. its very remniscent of la campanella

[j_menz]

On the triplets, you need to keep the triplet feel Da da da Da da da.  That will help you keep time.

If you're having trouble with those jumps before the modulation, the ones after it will be even worse. Slow, accurate practice, with no looking is what's required.

It's not looking good for the 8th, I should say, and your backup is probably a better option.

[rjgrech]

On the triplets, you need to keep the triplet feel Da da da Da da da.  That will help you keep time.

If you're having trouble with those jumps before the modulation, the ones after it will be even worse. Slow, accurate practice, with no looking is what's required.

It's not looking good for the 8th, I should say, and your backup is probably a better option.

im not having trouble with the jumps they are relatively easy as the always go back to the same note if i worked on it a bar a day for the whole of april could it be done? I see with the first measure just a few minutes of repetition is already making it easier to play at the right tempo

[j_menz]

Sorry, I had read the 8th to be April 8th.

You should be the best judge of whether that's enough time. IMO, though, you need to spend quite a bit of time actually playing it - without technical issues - to have it up to a stage where you really know what to do with a piece.

[rjgrech]

Sorry, I had read the 8th to be April 8th.

You should be the best judge of whether that's enough time. IMO, though, you need to spend quite a bit of time actually playing it - without technical issues - to have it up to a stage where you really know what to do with a piece.

im not very confident in my playing even though all of my peers and most of my teachers think i play beautifully so i could never really say if i could do it in that time. have you played it? and how long did it take you to learn it?

[iansinclair]

I do play it -- it's part of my current concert repertoire (and quite well received -- it is a wonderful piece!).  How long did it take me to learn it?  Technically, I suppose about a month and a half until I was at the point where I made relatively few mistakes (I always make a few in any piece I do...) at the tempi marked in my edition (the contrast between the A sections and the B piu mosso was not marked enough for my taste, among other things).  Which, however, did not satisfy me; didn't feel right.  Another month until I was reasonably happy presenting it in public.  But I'm still working on refining my interpretation of it!  But then, I suppose that will never stop...

[rjgrech]

I do play it -- it's part of my current concert repertoire (and quite well received -- it is a wonderful piece!).  How long did it take me to learn it?  Technically, I suppose about a month and a half until I was at the point where I made relatively few mistakes (I always make a few in any piece I do...) at the tempi marked in my edition (the contrast between the A sections and the B piu mosso was not marked enough for my taste, among other things).  Which, however, did not satisfy me; didn't feel right.  Another month until I was reasonably happy presenting it in public.  But I'm still working on refining my interpretation of it!  But then, I suppose that will never stop...

have you also by any chanced played the f minor nocturne or the rain drop prelude which out of these would you personally recommend for me to play following to of my peers one playing the first movement of the tempest sonata and the other playing prelude in g minor by rachmaninov

[j_menz]

im not very confident in my playing even though all of my peers and most of my teachers think i play beautifully so i could never really say if i could do it in that time. have you played it? and how long did it take you to learn it?

I've played it on and off over, well, longer than you've been alive (let's leave it at that), but never really studied it. I'm not good with Chopin in any case - he and I don't see eye to eye on enough, so he'd never really be my choice for a performance. That's just me, though.  Funnily, that has gotten worse over the years.

You're currently at the stage of learning the notes.  Depending on your affinity for this piece, you need to allow time for it to sink in after you've got to the point where you can play it comfortably.  I have no means of knowing how long that might be, but it's best not to underestimate it.  You probably don't have much idea yourself on this point, and that's OK.  You should have some better idea, though, of how long you think you can get the notes down.  If that's another week or two, you may be OK - if it's much longer than that it's an increasing risk.

As to your backup options, the nocturne is probably the better choice, assuming you can do it some justice.

[lateromantic]

I've played it on and off over, well, longer than you've been alive (let's leave it at that), but never really studied it.

I worked on this nocturne in college (back in the late 1960s) enough to use it in an audition.  By coincidence, I pulled it out again just recently and have been working on it a bit.  I was having the same left/right synchronization problem in the Pił mosso section.  I have plenty of experience with cross-rhythms, and at a slow tempo I can handle it just fine, but not at the faster intended tempo.  I'm not sure whether my problem is really one of physical control, or whether I'm not hearing it precisely in my mind.  Focusing on having the hands synchronized at the downbeat of each bar seems to help a bit.  It will be another six months before I will really be able to practice it seriously (I'm retiring at the end of September), and I'll probably try some segmental practice on it then--i. e., practicing a fraction of a measure at a time at speed, then gradually combining those segments.

[iansinclair]

Oddly enough, at least for me, cross rhythms of this sort are easier more up to tempo -- or maybe it's just that minor timing errors stand out more at slow tempi.  But the suggestion to mentally (if not actually) emphasize the major beats is spot on (and for me, in this nocturne at least, my interpretation is that the left hand should be a steady ripple with the first beat of the measure slightly accented, while the right hand -- which is the melodic thread, needs to be brought out lyrically and really sing -- applies all through the piu mosso section as appropriate).

[quantum]

Problems with the triplet section are probably caused by the concurrence of the LH hemiola and the RH dotted rhythm.  These two things tend to feel opposed to each other when played by the hands simultaneously. 

When I play the LH triplets, I actually feel 9 subdivisions in a bar with one beat per bar, and not three groups of triplets.  Really the only accented note is the initial downbeat, which also sets the bass pitch.  It can be rhythmically cumbersome to try to feel 3 in a bar while propelling the phrase to its climax point. 

Don't learn and practice the piece linearly.  Work at the most difficult sections first.