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Topic: tension  (Read 3408 times)

Offline flash

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tension
on: November 24, 2004, 01:15:14 AM
Hi there.
What do you think about playing with  arm's tension and strong pressure on the keyboard? Try it either in pp and ff,  pushing the key very slowly but with great tension of fingers and arms...and listen.. what a sound!.
Dan

Offline richard w

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Re: tension
Reply #1 on: November 24, 2004, 10:35:19 AM
I had a teacher that recommended this kind of technique for the purposes of getting a good tone out of the instrument. He advocated 'stroking' the key with a rather tense finger. The kind of application would be a slow movement of a Mozart sonata, for example. It will be interesting to see what others say about the deliberate 'use' of tension.

Offline flash

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Re: tension
Reply #2 on: November 24, 2004, 10:51:40 AM
Very interesting indeed.
Of course this kind of playing is very tiring so it is necessary to achieve a good athletic conditions of hands and arms, but the final result is quite impressive.
Do you come from? I'm from Italy.
Daniele

Offline xvimbi

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Re: tension
Reply #3 on: November 24, 2004, 01:49:17 PM
Very interesting indeed.
Of course this kind of playing is very tiring so it is necessary to achieve a good athletic conditions of hands and arms, but the final result is quite impressive.

Don't fall into the "power" and "strength" trap. These techniques do not require power, nor strength, nor "a good athletic condition". All they require is an economical and intelligent use of the strength you already have. In this case, the motion begins at the hips. If you move your upper body back and forth a tiny little bit, you already have most of the movement that is required at the fingertips. If you now include your shoulder (ever so slightly), you'll amplify the motion. The weight of your upper body will provide most of the "power" you need. Gravity is your friend. Make good use of it, and you'll find that there is hardly any pianistic technique that is truely tiring.

Offline Hmoll

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Re: tension
Reply #4 on: November 24, 2004, 06:17:38 PM
what a sound!.
 

What a bad idea. A one way ticket to Tendinitisland.

Listen to Xvimbi's advice. Tension results in a very limited sound, lack of facility, and lots of potential for injury.
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Offline shasta

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Re: tension
Reply #5 on: November 24, 2004, 06:35:27 PM
I agree with Xvimbi and Hmoll.  Check out the following thread ("My forearms, wrists...") for more info on tension:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5154.0.html
"self is self"   - i_m_robot

Offline m

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Re: tension
Reply #6 on: November 24, 2004, 08:20:57 PM
Hi there.
What do you think about playing with  arm's tension and strong pressure on the keyboard? Try it either in pp and ff,  pushing the key very slowly but with great tension of fingers and arms...and listen.. what a sound!.
Dan

Dead end.

Besides all physical problems and injuries it leads to, it contradicts the main principle of performance--first, you have to have an image of the sound, only after that produce it--not the other way around.
What happens, is that your brain has an image, then it send an impulse into your finger tip, you take the sound, listen how it matches your image, and then your brain sends impulse of correction, or feedback. If there is ANY tension on the way, no matter whether it is in your neck, arms, even in finger joints, it blocks away these impulses, and the whole mechanism of playing gets completely disbalanced. The only tension (I'd say intensity) can be between finger tip and the key, for certain sound effect, but it relies not on physical tension, but the weight of your arm you put into the key.

Tension and musical intensity are two completely different things, and I think this is where you get confused. Try to listen to a recording of your favorite piece, tense your body and see if you can enjoy the piece? I don't think so. You will see that in order to absorb all the beauty of the music, all your body needs to be completely relaxed--sit comfortably, etc.
I don't see how reproducing music is different.

Offline xvimbi

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Re: tension
Reply #7 on: November 24, 2004, 08:38:57 PM
Dead end.

Besides all physical problems and injuries it leads to, it contradicts the main principle of performance--first, you have to have an image of the sound, only after that produce it--not the other way around.
What happens, is that your brain has an image, then it send an impulse into your finger tip, you take the sound, listen how it matches your image, and then your brain sends impulse of correction, or feedback. If there is ANY tension on the way, no matter whether it is in your neck, arms, even in finger joints, it blocks away this signal of correction, and the whole mechanism gets completely unbalanced.

I think we may be over-interpreting flash's post a bit. The way I interpret it is that he discovered how to produce a sonorous sound by leaning into the keys with the entire body, while the arms, wrists and hands, fingers are rigid for a moment in order to transfer the body weight onto the keys all the way down to the keybed. I don't think he really meant "tension" in the negative way, but rather "rigidifying the playing apparatus". Flash, correct me if I'm wrong.

Offline flash

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Re: tension
Reply #8 on: November 25, 2004, 12:19:03 PM
Well I red with great interest your posts.
I'm sure there are different ways (all good if the results are good) of playing piano, only I want to let you know that "there is" this particular pianistic school, and the large use of tension, if done in the correct fisiologic way, doesn't give phisycal problem.  Anyway,  don't try it without a deep understanding of this technique, and I can't explain it in few words.
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