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Topic: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2  (Read 4071 times)

Offline rachfan

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I’ve posted here another unpublished (although copyrighted) character piece composed by Sergei Bortkiewicz. The title is “A Dream”, drawn from his Fantasy Pieces, Op. 61, No. 2 composed in 1942. All of Op. 61, however, was not completed until 1943. As you would expect, this is a reverie, and it is in ternary form. Bortkiewicz had worked on this opus in an air raid shelter during the bombings of Vienna in WWII. Like his “Nocturne”, Op. 58, No. 5 that I posted earlier, this music was found in the Rahter publishing archive where it had gathered dust for many decades. The volume was never printed and distributed. So my recording will be the first hearing ever. I hope you'll enjoy hearing it.

David

Comments welcome.

Piano: Baldwin Model L Artist Grand (6’3”) with lid fully open
Recorder: Roland R-44
Mics: Matched pair of Earthworks TC-20 small diaphragm, omni-directional condenser mics in A-B configuration
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline j_menz

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #1 on: June 04, 2014, 03:20:32 AM
Excellent job David, and a privilege to hear it.

Are you aware of any moves to publish these?
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline rachfan

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #2 on: June 04, 2014, 03:40:11 AM
Hi j,

Rahter is now owned by Boosey & Hawkes.  I suppose they might publish these old scores, but then again... maybe not.  There was a time after Rachmaninoff passed on when publishers thought that Late Romanticism had run its course, and they instead became more interested in the modernist trends.  We can always hope.

David
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline j_menz

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #3 on: June 04, 2014, 04:01:57 AM
We can always hope.

We can also encourage them to act. My email has already gone off.  ;)
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline rachfan

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #4 on: June 04, 2014, 04:03:13 AM
Hi j,

Great idea!

David
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline carl_h

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #5 on: June 04, 2014, 07:54:02 AM
Hi David,

Very touching stuff, I really came to love this composer. I really like how you go out and discover this music and then bring it to us!
The playing was sweet as always, you set the mood from the very first bar and kept it troughout.

I was pleased when I found a lot of his music on imslp and I hope I can get my hand on this opus as well. Is it free to distribute by scanning it since it has never been published?

Best regards,
Carl

Offline rachfan

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #6 on: June 04, 2014, 07:39:44 PM
Hi carl_h

Thanks for listening and your compliments on my playing.  I appreciate it!

Yes, the IMSLP contains most of Bortkiewicz's oeuvre.  The problem of missing scores is especially evident in his late years during WWII, mostly due to the very destructive bombing of cities which took a toll on publishers, printing paper supplies, and music stores.   

The answer to your question might be yes, but I'm not sure.  I can tell you this: When Bortkiewicz died, his sole heir was his wife Elisabeth.  When she died, her heirs were a couple of nieces who have since died too.  So as far as copyright goes, I believe that it's moot, which is why some pianists including myself felt free to perform and/or record his music.  Whether a publisher like Rahter (or Boosey & Hawks) holding a copyright could oppose scanning and/or public performance of that music, I don't know.

I'll also send you a PM.

David
 
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #7 on: June 05, 2014, 05:19:51 AM
It's a nice piece of music.  The tempo could be a bit faster.

Offline rachfan

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #8 on: June 05, 2014, 11:44:45 AM
Hi faulty,

Thanks for listening.

Where this is a reverie marked sostenuto e molto tranquillo, it's a piece that is not meant to be rushed.  Attaining a sensuous sound is far more important.  As this is the premiere recording of the music, I got to make all the calls.  :)  

David
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #9 on: June 05, 2014, 05:32:36 PM
I'm just telling you what I hear and when I listened to it, I had to speed it up after the fact for it to make musical sense.  It sounds nice, but it would be better if it were a bit faster so musical statements didn't take so long to complete.

Offline pianoman53

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #10 on: June 05, 2014, 06:04:31 PM
For once, I see where faulty is going.
Though, again, it's too simple to say that it should be faster. It's not a tempo issue. My problem is that the left hand is slightly too heavy and static. For me, it simply needs more direction. The easy way to do this is to play faster. But then, as you say, it will take away some of the sostenuto and tranquility.
So my suggestion would be to just put more line in the left hand. The sostenuto will stay, but it will feel less heavy.

Offline goldentone

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #11 on: June 05, 2014, 07:10:28 PM
Hi David,

You really capture the mood and take us away in the luxuriant serenity.  It makes me want to take up the piece.  And another premiere recording.  Thanks for unveiling it. :)
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #12 on: June 05, 2014, 07:56:04 PM
There's a lot of passion in this piece, and I like this kind of mood, but to be best expressed, it must be faster.  If it were played 40% faster, it would sound much better.  Also, some greater dynamic contrast would be appreciated especially at the recapitulation.

I've uploaded the performance, with the tempo increased by 40% using Audacity.  Performance time decreases from 2:50 to 2:02.  I couldn't increase the tempo more than this because the articulation prevents it from being musical but it could actually be faster if the articulation were better shaped.

Offline rachfan

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #13 on: June 05, 2014, 08:14:10 PM
Hi faulty,

I listened to it and believe that the increased speed does violence to this reverie. Never would I play it that way.  I guess to each his own.

David
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #14 on: June 05, 2014, 09:00:14 PM
The issue isn't the faster tempo but the way it was originally articulated.  It does indeed sound rather forced, violent, however, that's actually how it was played originally.  The increased speed just makes it obvious.  If the manner of performance were far more subtly shaped, it wouldn't sound so violent when sped up.  That's why I said I couldn't speed it up any further, because the articulation prevents it from sounding musical.

Offline rachfan

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #15 on: June 05, 2014, 10:30:25 PM
Faulty,

Your opinion is your opinion with which I disagree.  I'm fully satisfied with my interpretation and recording which have drawn favorable comments here and elsewhere, and I have no intention of changing it. This discussion is over.

David

  

Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline j_menz

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #16 on: June 05, 2014, 10:38:29 PM


I hadn't realised nominations for 2014 had opened.  :-[
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline rachfan

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #17 on: June 05, 2014, 10:44:15 PM
Hi j_menz,

I'm glad you kept that Gold Cup at the ready! ;D ;D ;D

David
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #18 on: June 05, 2014, 10:59:49 PM
You'll get favorable responses regardless of the quality of the performance.  However, the quality of that performance was rather poor for the reasons already mentioned.  If you're going to premiere a piece, you should do an exceptional job of it.  It's not about being first.  You asked for comments, I gave you mine.  You're just being defensive because you don't want to face reality.

Offline rachfan

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #19 on: June 06, 2014, 04:27:56 AM
If I were to agree with your statement, it would do you a disservice.

Please leave my thread and do not return.

David
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #20 on: June 06, 2014, 06:26:44 AM
You know, I spent quite some time running through the performance at various tempi, from 5% to over 60% faster.  At first, I was trying to get the opening bars correct, which was around 8-15% faster.  The problem was that these tempi only worked for the first few bars.  Afterward, it just dragged so I increased it enough so that it didn't drag.  This was difficult because the original tempo wasn't steady and the articulation was kind of forced so different parts sounded best at different increases in speed.  The 40% was the best compromise that ensured that the music came through even though there were some minor parts that could have been slightly slower, such as the opening bars and the final bars as it faded to an end.  I tell you all of this as an indirect way to critique the performance.  I don't want you to stay in that ivory tower forever.  If you gain nothing from this, then ignore it completely and be in wedded bliss.  But I'm certain you'll get something from it.  Note that I did not do any of this, including the comments and the MP3, because I wanted to bash you.  I did it because I like the music quite a bit and thought it could be much better if performed faster with smoother articulation.  If you have the music in PDF, I'd actually appreciate it if you'd be willing to share it to me.  That's all.  I won't return per your request.

Offline lazyfingers

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #21 on: June 06, 2014, 06:42:50 AM
Give it a rest, faulty.

Your faulty advice has been rejected by the OP. And the rest of us who know you don't really care what you think, other than as a source of constant amusement.

What is not clear about "Please leave my thread and do not return. " ? Maybe I can be of assistance to explain its subtleties. Maybe you are sitting too high and your tempo is too slow? Maybe your forearm isn't muscular enough? Too muscular?



Offline pianist1976

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #22 on: June 06, 2014, 08:06:33 AM
You'll get favorable responses regardless of the quality of the performance.  However, the quality of that performance was rather poor for the reasons already mentioned.  If you're going to premiere a piece, you should do an exceptional job of it.  It's not about being first.  You asked for comments, I gave you mine.  You're just being defensive because you don't want to face reality.
[...]
You know, I spent quite some time running through the performance at various tempi, from 5% to over 60% faster.  At first, I was trying to get the opening bars correct, which was around 8-15% faster.  The problem was that these tempi only worked for the first few bars.  Afterward, it just dragged so I increased it enough so that it didn't drag.  This was difficult because the original tempo wasn't steady and the articulation was kind of forced so different parts sounded best at different increases in speed.  The 40% was the best compromise that ensured that the music came through even though there were some minor parts that could have been slightly slower, such as the opening bars and the final bars as it faded to an end.  I tell you all of this as an indirect way to critique the performance.

In other words, it would sound better if you interpret it (BTW, quite absurd as you stated clearly that you'll never publish a recording here)... That way of thinking is so disrespectful to other musicians, so egocentric, so delusional...

Summing to what Lazyfingers wrote I'll say: what part of "Please leave my thread and do not return" didn't you understand? You are ruining this audition room. Maybe people in a not so far future will place a tag on their recordings telling "Please, no faulty comments. Thanks". If I decide to publish again on this forum a recording, I may do it.

Offline rachfan

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #23 on: June 06, 2014, 02:54:03 PM
Thank you, lazytfingers and pianoman1976!

I must say, the thought of taking a beautiful, nostalgic, romantic, sensuous, tender and leisurely reverie and increasing its tempo by 40% to change the imagery of the dream to one of being at the horse races was preposterous to say the least! Talk about doing violence to a score.  ::)  I appreciate your efforts to restore reason to this thread.  

David
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline arielpiano

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #24 on: June 09, 2014, 04:19:34 PM
David, please don't pay attention. This is the Internet after all... Where else can someone display such authority anonymously? The performance is wonderful.
Ariel

Offline rachfan

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #25 on: June 09, 2014, 08:51:06 PM
Hi ariel,

You're right about ignoring it, of course. Weird things can happen on the internet.  I'm glad you enjoyed the music. At first I didn't know how I'd respond to this piece, but it quickly grew on me.  Thanks for listening.

David

Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline chechig

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #26 on: June 09, 2014, 09:39:50 PM
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! I love Bortk.'s music, and as you know it's quite difficult to find, so it's great you share with us your beautiful recording. I'm an intermediate student and I cant' play his music, but I dream about playing his Lamentations and consolations, they are so beautiful!!
I'm not an expert, but your recording sounds great to me!!
It's a shame that this composer is almost ignored!! He had a very difficult life, but still he left us really beautiful music
Thanks again!

Offline rachfan

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #27 on: June 10, 2014, 05:31:03 AM
Hi chechig

Thank you for listening. I really appreciate that.  There was a time when there were only three people on this side of the Atlantic recording Bortkiewicz--Marc-Andre Hamelin, Koji Attwood and me. Here at Piano Street I've recorded the most to date.  If you visit Index to Audition Room at the top of this posting list, the composers are in alphabetic order. Once you find Bortkiewicz, my recordings are under rachfan. You might find some pieces there that you've not heard before. 

Yes those consolations are beautiful indeed!

Another incredible Russian composer that I've tried to emphasize is Georgy Catoire.  Those are in the Index too.  Despite his astonishing late romantic works, he too has been all but ignored.

Thanks again for stopping by. 

David
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline chechig

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #28 on: June 10, 2014, 07:42:52 AM
I've just realised that you are the same pianist I follow somewhere else. My other nick is Burgmuller

Offline rachfan

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #29 on: June 10, 2014, 01:12:54 PM
Hi chechig,

You might be right.  For years I've also posted at three other sites.

David
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline enzopiano

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #30 on: June 10, 2014, 03:32:05 PM
Hello Rachfan,

This is the first time I've heard this piece. I love the way you play especially your singing tones. The mood felt solemn, spiritual and relaxing. Thank you for sharing this wonderful piece and congratulations!

- Enzo -

Offline rachfan

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #31 on: June 10, 2014, 09:20:43 PM
Hi enzo,

Yea!  Now you have your own member account here.  Good for you, enzo!

I'm delighted that you enjoyed this short character piece of Bortkiewicz. And thanks for your kind comments on my playing.  The reason this is your first hearing is because I've made the first recording. Unfortunately many decades ago, the Fantasy Pieces, Op. 61 languished away in the Rahter archive.  So this opus was never published and distributed.  But thanks to the diligent efforts of a collector of scores, this music was rescued from a vault.  I was the lucky pianist to have the honor of playing it first.  And you're right--it turned out to be wonderful music.

I hope your studies are going well. If you can post a piece here now and then, it would be great.  

Thanks for stopping by!

David
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline gvans

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #32 on: June 14, 2014, 10:30:39 PM
Interesting "Dream," David, well conceived and played. Did Sergei Bortkiewicz write any chamber music?

Offline rachfan

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #33 on: June 15, 2014, 04:18:56 AM
Hi gvans,

Glad you enjoyed "A Dream".

Here is a list of Sergei Bortkiewicz's chamber music:

 Chamber music
 
opus 25 Trois morceaux for cello and piano (Rahter, 1924)*
opus 26 Sonata for violin and piano (Rahter, 1924)
opus 36 Sonata for cello and piano (manuscript, 1924)**
opus 38 Trio for piano, cello and violin (manuscript, 1925)**
opus 63 Vier Stücke für Violine und Klavier (Kliment, 1946)* +
 
* a copy of this score can be obtained through the Netherlands Music Institute in The Hague (info@nederlandsmuziekinstituut.nl)
 
+ This score can still be bought from Kliment. Price: € 9,--. E-mail: office@kliment.at
 
** this score is still missing

I hope that helps.

David
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline gvans

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #34 on: June 15, 2014, 09:51:03 PM
Thanks for your note, David. Too bad about the missing trio manuscript...

Offline rachfan

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Re: Bortkiewicz, Fantasy Pieces, "A Dream", Op. 61, No. 2
Reply #35 on: June 16, 2014, 03:59:19 PM
Hi gvans,

Sending you a PM.

David

Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.
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