When picking a teacher, is it okay to ask them to play for you?

[tjinaz]

I am an adult hoping to get back into playing after a long hiatus.

My question is this:

Is it considered okay to ask a teacher you're considering working with to play for you?

I don't want to be rude or anything, but honestly, I would not be comfortable paying money for lessons from someone I have never heard play.

[timothy42b]

I am an adult hoping to get back into playing after a long hiatus.

My question is this:

Is it considered okay to ask a teacher you're considering working with to play for you?

I don't want to be rude or anything, but honestly, I would not be comfortable paying money for lessons from someone I have never heard play.

I would rather see their students play.

Would you rather get a golf lesson from Tiger Woods, or from the guy who made him great?

Finding a teacher for an adult is difficult.   I would ask every musician I ran into for a recommendation, word of mouth is going to be your friend here. 

[outin]

I am an adult hoping to get back into playing after a long hiatus.

My question is this:

Is it considered okay to ask a teacher you're considering working with to play for you?

I don't want to be rude or anything, but honestly, I would not be comfortable paying money for lessons from someone I have never heard play.

I don't think it is rude. I also don't think an experienced teacher should be bothered by student's questions regarding their experience or their teaching.

Just remember that someone playing well does not necessarily mean they teach as well...

[tjinaz]

I would rather see their students play.

Would you rather get a golf lesson from Tiger Woods, or from the guy who made him great?

Finding a teacher for an adult is difficult.   I would ask every musician I ran into for a recommendation, word of mouth is going to be your friend here. 

My goal isn't to find the tiger woods of piano playing, but to make sure I'm learning from someone who can play at a high level themselves. I had the misfortune of taking lessons from someone who was not a good player for quite a few years. The end result was that I picked up a ton of bad habits and became a bad player with lots of things I needed to unlearn.

I'm not saying my teacher has to be world class - But I think most people would agree that if your teacher plays poorly, chances are slim that they are going to just happen to be a great teacher despite the fact that they were unable to teach themselves how to play well.

This isn't the only criteria I'm using to select a teacher, but it's an important one for me.

[pianoplunker]

I am an adult hoping to get back into playing after a long hiatus.

My question is this:

Is it considered okay to ask a teacher you're considering working with to play for you?

I don't want to be rude or anything, but honestly, I would not be comfortable paying money for lessons from someone I have never heard play.

It is not rude to ask to play something. Someone who teaches music should enjoy music enough to have at least something  to play.  I would want to know the teacher can play something from beginning to end all the way through. Does not have to be a concerto, even a minuet will do, or a folk song like London Bridges. That  is not everything. Some teachers are stronger at different concepts of music. Ideally you match their strengths to what you need. You may not need a concert performer to teach you a basic concept. The level of performance is not what matters, it is the teaching that is important.   

[timothy42b]

Just remember that someone playing well does not necessarily mean they teach as well...

+1

These are separate skills.  The good teacher will probably play well, certainly will play acceptably, but the good player may not be able to teach at all. 

[thalbergmad]

If you are buying any goods or services, you are entitled to ensure that they are to your satisfaction.

A teacher that was not able to illustrate on the piano or was nowhere near the level of the pieces I wished to learn, would be of no value to me.

Thal

[pianoplunker]

My goal isn't to find the tiger woods of piano playing, but to make sure I'm learning from someone who can play at a high level themselves. I had the misfortune of taking lessons from someone who was not a good player for quite a few years. The end result was that I picked up a ton of bad habits and became a bad player with lots of things I needed to unlearn.

I'm not saying my teacher has to be world class - But I think most people would agree that if your teacher plays poorly, chances are slim that they are going to just happen to be a great teacher despite the fact that they were unable to teach themselves how to play well.

This isn't the only criteria I'm using to select a teacher, but it's an important one for me.

You definitely want a teacher that can execute what you are learning to execute. 

[fleetfingers]

No, it's not rude. Are you in Arizona? Where?

[nyiregyhazi]

I would rather see their students play.

Would you rather get a golf lesson from Tiger Woods, or from the guy who made him great?

Finding a teacher for an adult is difficult.   I would ask every musician I ran into for a recommendation, word of mouth is going to be your friend here. 

The David Leadbetters of the golf world may not win masters tournaments every year but you'd sure as hell expect them to be able to hit a half decent pitch onto a green. I doubt very much whether any of his teachers couldn't do so on demand. It's not unreasonable to expect some basic competence from a teacher.

[m1469]

It's pretty tacky in most circumstances, in my opinion.  I think of pianists and teachers as much more than piano monkeys who are supposed to be capable of doing tricks at somebody else's command.  

Here are some essentials in finding a good teacher, in my opinion:

1.  Deep love for music.
2.  Deep love for teaching.
3.  Ability to empathize with student (even if it's a learned empathy).
4.  Willingness to take on student's challenges as her/his own.
5.  Attentiveness.
6.  Ability to see through a student's eyes, and then help to solve a problem from seeing through the student's eyes as well as her/his own experience.
7.  Knowing concepts inside and out, and/or still having a desire and willingness to learn.

There are more, but those above are irreplaceable and can be obvious immediately.  There are lots of stuffed shirts out there, and it is not an accomplishment on a teacher's part to be or end up being (or act as though they are) just another average Joe who doesn't really care about the other person in the room, or doesn't really care about music - because absolutely anybody -anybody- (anybody) even non-pianists and non-musicians, anybody under the sun, any creature great or small, can do that.  There are no -zero- education, Degrees, intelligence, wisdom, or any amount of experience necessary for that.  And there is not even the slightest hint of lack in the world of those average Joes.

Also, depending upon the circumstances, a teacher is most likely not where they are if they have never proved they have a highly proficient musical and instrumental understanding and can play.  For one example, although there can be a lot of politics involved, a University professor has already gone through an interview/audition process, which almost certainly included formal playing of some sort in front of other professors and the student body.  

There are also numerous reasons a knowledgeable pianist can be out of physical and formal practice but have a lot to offer as a teacher.  Funnily enough, teaching *a lot* can be one of those reasons.

At the same time, two of my greatest musical influences were my own teachers who played in my lessons for me and with me, whose recordings I listened to, and whose concerts I made the point to attend whenever possible.  And it is my wish as a teacher to be able to continue playing for my own students.  But, it's deeper than "So, can you play or not?"

[fleetfingers]

No, it's not rude. Are you in Arizona? Where?

Message me . . . I have some recommendations if you're in my area.

[dima_76557]

Is it considered okay to ask a teacher you're considering working with to play for you?

Although this may seem like a very clever thing to do, I don't think it is wise. It also seems rather arrogant to me. By doing so, you may set yourself up for humiliating perfectionist requirements during future lessons as retaliation for your impudence to disturb the natural balance of power. Better think of other ways to find out what a teacher is worth.

[outin]

Although this may seem like a very clever thing to do, I don't think it is wise. It also seems rather arrogant to me. By doing so, you may set yourself up for humiliating perfectionist requirements during future lessons as retaliation for your impudence to disturb the natural balance of power. Better think of other ways to find out what a teacher is worth.

Maybe we have a cultural difference here...or the teachers in Russia are just like their reputation  

Of course it also depends on how one asks. Not: Please play for me so that I can evaluate if you're good enough to be my teacher But: I would love to hear you play something, would you?

But both my adulthood teachers seemed to be very eager to demonstrate, so I never needed to ask...

[dima_76557]

Of course it also depends on how one asks. Not: Please play for me so that I can evaluate if you're good enough to be my teacher But: I would love to hear you play something, would you?

But what does that really prove about their qualifications as a teacher? All it takes to "pass" such a (IMHO ridiculous) "test" is to know a couple of pieces (or part of such pieces) thoroughly enough to impress a layman audience. Let's say a couple of bars of variation XI of Liszt-Paganini etude # 6, not really that difficult, but VERY effective.

Still, the potential student puts on a judge's hat concerning things he/she is not able to judge about at all, and is therefore in the wrong. It's not like shopping for a compact disc, you know. You can't ask a person with deserved credentials and reputation (can be verified in other ways) to sit up and do a couple of tricks for you to judge. People who really love their trade for the right reasons may get offended.

[j_menz]

the natural balance of power

You don't subscribe to the "who pays the piper calls the tune" school of thought, then?

[dima_76557]

You don't subscribe to the "who pays the piper calls the tune" school of thought, then?

No (or should I say "yes"?), not at all; quite the reverse. I may be hopelessly conservative, but I think that "teacher evaluation" is often so badly done that lots of competent people lose jobs and suckers who simply know how to pass required standardized tests degenerate the general level of education.

[outin]

But what does that really prove about their qualifications as a teacher? All it takes to "pass" such a (IMHO ridiculous) "test" is to know a couple of pieces (or part of such pieces) thoroughly enough to impress a layman audience. Let's say a couple of bars of variation XI of Liszt-Paganini etude # 6, not really that difficult, but VERY effective.

Still, the potential student puts on a judge's hat concerning things he/she is not able to judge about at all, and is therefore in the wrong. It's not like shopping for a compact disc, you know. You can't ask a person with deserved credentials and reputation (can be verified in other ways) to sit up and do a couple of tricks for you to judge. People who really love their trade for the right reasons may get offended.

This may be true if the student knows nothing about piano playing. But if you already have an idea how good piano playing looks and sounds, then you would want your teacher to be able to do that, wouldn't you? Nobody said anything about wanting to see tricks, just to see how the playing looks and sounds in general. The piece or it's difficulty doesn't really matter.

In my own very limited experience the way the teacher played did in fact somewhat correlate in the way they taught. If I find someone's playing unpleasant in any way, would I want to be taught by them?

[dima_76557]

This may be true if the student knows nothing about piano playing. But if you already have an idea how good piano playing looks and sounds, then you would want your teacher to be able to do that, wouldn't you?

No, I wouldn't. I'd rather "judge" his/her students in that respect. From the teacher I expect ideas, inspiration, support, life experience, etc. I don't really care how he/she transmits that knowledge. If words don't come easy and he/she is really still able to demonstrate this or that in the context of an already established teacher-student relationship, that's OK, but it is not a requirement.

[outin]

People who really love their trade for the right reasons may get offended.

Of course a person who is so easily offended could not handel me as a student anyway 

[outin]

No, I wouldn't. I'd rather "judge" his/her students in that respect. From the teacher I expect ideas, inspiration, support, life experience, etc. I don't really care how he/she transmits that knowledge. If words don't come easy and he/she is really still able to demonstrate this or that in the context of an already established teacher-student relationship, that's OK, but it is not a requirement.

It is not often possible to evaluate the teacher's students (I assume we are talking about amateurs looking for private teachers here, not concervatory students). I certainly didn't have that option.

I guess I am not willing to take the risk that after spending time establishing a relationship with my teacher, I will realize that in fact I am being taught by someone who does not have a clue what they are doing. I may not have so many years to study before me...What I need is someone to teach me sound technique, not transmit life experience. I already have a lot

I also would need to hear how the teacher's piano sounds. I have sensitive hearing and I am not going to spend my lessons playing on something crappy that hurts my ears. This was one of the reasons I had to change...

[dima_76557]

I guess I am not willing to take the risk that after spending time establishing a relationship with my teacher, I will realize that in fact I am being taught by someone who does not have a clue what they are doing. I may not have so many years to study before me...What I need is someone to teach me sound technique, not transmit life experience. I already have a lot

But isn't there a system of certification and accreditation in your country to protect the "customer" against rogue services? Teachers' organisations and such? I can hardly imagine that someone who "doesn't have a clue what they are doing" would ever get listed.
P.S.: A retired teacher may no longer be able to demonstrate physically, but should he/she therefore be dismissed as "incompetent"? What about one who *was* able to demonstrate in the past, but got into a car accident and damaged one of their hands for life? Should they be automatically dismissed as "incompetent"?

[outin]

But isn't there a system of certification and accreditation in your country to protect the "customer" against rogue services? Teachers' organisations and such? I can hardly imagine that someone who "doesn't have a clue what they are doing" would ever get listed.
P.S.: A retired teacher may no longer be able to demonstrate physically, but should he/she therefore be dismissed as "incompetent"? What about one who *was* able to demonstrate in the past, but got into a car accident and damaged one of their hands in a car accident? Should they be automatically dismissed as "incompetent"?

There can be exceptions of course. But someone learning/relearning technique often needs someone who CAN demonstrate what they teach. It's different if you are more advanced and look for other things from the teacher.

Here depending on where you live, private teachers may be scarce. And there really is no other system of certification than the normal education system, which means one can have a degree of some sort. But depending on where and when the degree was done, it may or may not be a guarantee (some have old degrees from abroad that we know little about). Most teachers with recent or higher degrees only teach in the music school system or concervatories, so not available for adults.

[dima_76557]

But depending on where and when the degree was done, it may or may not be a guarantee

There is no guarantee for anything. Even if the teacher is able to demonstrate anything anyone asks in any key, and even if that teacher has produced a thousand or so "talents" already, if what he/she has to offer doesn't "click" for you, the results will be poor.

P.S.: The retraining branch is a special section in piano pedagogy. You don't go to just any regular teacher to get what you want/need. People who specialize in that kind of therapeutic work will most likely be listed separately.

[outin]

There is no guarantee for anything. Even if the teacher is able to demonstrate anything anyone asks in any key, and even if that teacher has produced a thousand or so "talents" already, if what he/she has to offer doesn't "click" for you, the results will be poor.

Seems you are just trying to make an argument here. In my first post I already said one should not assume that someone that plays well will be the best choice for a teacher.

It's possible to have a degree here with emphasis on non-classical. Depending on what kind of repertoire one wants to play, it is important to me that the teacher is well established in that. A classically trained pianist is usually not the best for someone wanting to play Blues. A teacher who has only passed the basic requirements in classical repertoire may not be the best in teaching someone interested in more advanced classical repertoire. Even though I had specifically told my first teacher that I am ONLY interested in learning classical repertoire, it only became clear to me after the first lessons that he was definitely more into other kind of music. He was well able to sight read classical pieces that I learned, but his playing style was completely different to what I expected. Had I heard them both play first, I would have had no trouble picking one over the other, but of course the other aspects of teaching would have been evaluated in other ways.

P.S.: The retraining branch is a special section in piano pedagogy. You don't go to just any regular teacher to get what you want/need. People who specialize in that kind of therapeutic work will most likely be listed separately.

Not around here. Besides I am not talking about retraining an injured pianists, just adults who may have played in their youth or without a teacher.

You seem to assume that all piano teachers have been trained in good technique? Maybe that is the case in Russia...

[dima_76557]

Seems you are just trying to make an argument here.

I am not. I seriously question that the teacher's ability to play something at request, especially at the first meeting before the student has even decided to take lessons, has any real value at all. As I said, there is the risk of spoiling the relationship before it has even started because the one who requests this is acting on a basis of distrust and with an air of concealed superiority.

P.S.: I used to work with a re-trainer (got to know him through word-of-mouth advertising) after I got into trouble with my technique, and I have no idea up to now whether he could actually play any of the repertoire I did with him. He surely was able to show me how to work to get the results I wanted in no time. In my personal opinion, that's what makes a good teacher.

[outin]

I am not. I seriously question that the teacher's ability to play something at request, especially at the first meeting before the student has even decided to take lessons, has any real value at all. As I said, there is the risk of spoiling the relationship before it has even started because the one who requests this is acting on a basis of distrust and with an air of concealed superiority.

Then we just disagree here

I see some value and I don't see the risk at all. But maybe that's because I personally possess excellent communication skills (it's a must for my profession) and do know how to present things to all kinds of people in a way that won't offend them.

I can also see how this could be done in a way that would be considered rude. But IMO a good teacher MUST have people skills as well as teaching skills and MUST understand that a new student may say/ask stupid things and not be offended by them.

[pianoplunker]

Maybe we have a cultural difference here...or the teachers in Russia are just like their reputation  

Of course it also depends on how one asks. Not: Please play for me so that I can evaluate if you're good enough to be my teacher But: I would love to hear you play something, would you?

But both my adulthood teachers seemed to be very eager to demonstrate, so I never needed to ask...

I took lessons from a Russian pianist, I never heard him play anything for me. I did not need to know he could play, he was all over MY playing  and he was right.  And still is right. Great teacher

[m1469]

I am also a singing teacher and a vocal performer.  I once had a student's parent ask me as they were heading out the door if I could sing for them, even just one note.  Even though I did not take it as a test to see if I could really sing, I think they just wanted to hear me, it was still pretty awkward for me.  Am I supposed to bust out a Verdi aria?  Really?  With these low ceilings and them having zero idea what they are in for?  Or maybe I am just supposed to sing Happy Birthday with a small voice, and it not representing what I actually sound like?  Or, perhaps I am to break into a most artistic, sensitive folk song, take advantage of a captive audience to an awkward-for-them degree, or perhaps it is best to opt for an emotionless, very neutral performance so that it is appropriate for the setting?  Oh, wait, I am not here to perform!  I am here to teach!  I did sing a note for them, with jazz hands no less ... and I'm not convinced it did anything unordinarily promising for our relationship.  If students really want to hear me, they can come to a concert or take advantage of the times I sing in their lessons.

I have worked with a singing teacher who was not considered to be in their singing prime and there is more to it than "age."  I did not know this when I first started lessons with this person and it would have been very presumptuous of me, and silly, for me to ask this person to sing something for me as though my decision to study were hinging on it.  This teacher did possess all of the qualities that I listed in my post above and was a great help to me.  

I went to visit a piano teacher some years back who didn't play a single note for me.  Not that I recall anyway.  I enjoyed my lesson and he was fairly transparent about wanting to work with me, but I ended up deciding that those lessons were not the right thing for me at the time.  Should he have played for me and I enjoyed it immensely, should that have change my mind even though I had felt that based on the lessons alone it wasn't quite the right thing for me at that time, would that have been a good decision?  I've been there, too, where the person's playing was the leading draw.

It's obviously everybody's own decision about these things, but in my experience it is important to have quite a broad view on it.  What really matters above all else is how they actually work with you.

[timothy42b]

But isn't there a system of certification and accreditation in your country to protect the "customer" against rogue services?

No, unfortunately not.

Anyone can claim to be a piano teacher regardless of credentials or competence, and there is a substantial percentage of well intentioned but clueless teachers out there.

Some of them even play to some standard, at least sufficient to impress the lay person. 

If you read the teacher forums you'll note the complaints about poorly prepared transfer students. 

[cstotlar]

From my experience as a student , I have studied with some  truly famous teachers who had no concept whatsoever how to teach, and others who were phenomenal teachers but not active pianists. Sometimes the two talents overlap but not all that often.  In fact it is a rarity.

Very often when students "study" with famous artists, their technical and interpretive ideas have been molded and they're looking for inspiration or ideas (or simply association).

Other teachers have the gift of organizing the materials for their students and laying them out in such a way that makes learning  both a pleasure and a treasure.  Often these teachers
are familiar with technical obstacles and how to overcome them, while many successful concert pianists never had to grapple with these problems in the first place and wouldn't know how to solve them.

Briefly, if the teacher can perform, fine.  The teacher can show from active example.  If the teacher is not (or no longer) an active performer, fine.  The bottom line: can the teacher teach well?

Curtis Stotlar

[outin]

Briefly, if the teacher can perform, fine.

Playing something to a student and performing really isn't the same thing. I find it ridiculous to question that a piano teacher has to be able to play the piano well enough to be able to and not be bothered to demonstrate to an amateur student. And not be so arrogant/complexed that he gets offended by such an innocent request. If he can't play, then he should also be honest about that, considering the amount of trust the student has to put in the teacher...

If it works for others to have teachers who never play, fine.

[dima_76557]

And not be so arrogant/complexed that he gets offended by such an innocent request.

I think you underestimate how such an "innocent request" outside the context of an actual lesson works in some of the overly sensitive people that populate the business and that are really more than capable to perform/demonstrate. According to the OP, we were only "shopping" for a teacher, remember? Anybody with minimal EQ will understand that with such a request, they are being manipulated into a testing environment with no way out (refusal may be interpreted as "inability" in the head of a potential client without a clue). Does one really have to be "complexed" or "arrogant" to realize what is happening and why? Does one have a right to protect oneself against overly assertive potential clients?

P.S.: My suggestion to the OP is to spare the teacher the ordeal and do the following:
1) a query about the potential teacher through official channels
2) following word-of-mouth advice if there is any available
3) asking for a trial lesson with the teacher in question

[outin]

I think you underestimate how such an "innocent request" outside the context of an actual lesson works in some of the overly sensitive people that populate the business and that are really more than capable to perform/demonstrate. According to the OP, we were only "shopping" for a teacher, remember?

Shopping or rather considering...It may sound negative for you, but that is basically what an adult who wants to be taught without connections or background often has to do. It's completely different for beginning children or conservatory students who are already in the "system". I guess someone in your position may have a hard time understanding this...

Anybody with minimal EQ will understand that with such a request, they are being manipulated into a testing environment with no way out (refusal may be interpreted as "inability" in the head of a potential client without a clue). Does one really have to be "complexed" or "arrogant" to realize what is happening and why? Does one have a right to protect oneself against overly assertive potential clients?

IMO not to that extend when you're marketing a service...Why would one not want to fulfill such a request if one is able to? And if one is not able to, the customer has the right to know, whether it will be that important to him or not.

With complexed I guess I meant what you call overly sensitive...not the best thing to be if one is a private teacher...again just my opinion.

I certainly did not feel comfortable when my potential teacher asked me to play for her, but I did anyway...when she then told me I did it all wrong (in a nicer way of course), I think it was only fair that she first showed me how it should be done before taking it all apart. For a long time I had to trust her that things will work out in the end when it seemed impossible to me

[dima_76557]

Why would one not want to fulfill such a request if one is able to?

Yes, you and I really *are* from different cultures. I can speak for Russians only. Among those Russian pianists that were raised in the Soviet time, there are many who do it for the music/Art itself, not for the money, not for the status, not for the rewards, etc. They mostly had their fair share of ruthless testing within the system already and may very well be offended by such a request to "prove what they can do" on the instrument. Something as insignifant as technical ability is simply assumed here, you see, because it is exclusively the result of your interest in/love for Art (talent is passion). So, I can very well imagine that in the heads of some of those pianists/teachers, there is really no point in sitting up on command and doing silly tricks for free. Ability is assumed because of the system they were trained in, and if you don't trust them, continue shopping some place else.

[outin]

3) asking for a trial lesson with the teacher in question

And obviously it should be on such a lesson that one would ask the teacher to play...It's not like I could just call and ask someone to perform to me...

[dima_76557]

And obviously it should be on such a lesson that one would ask the teacher to play...It's not like I could just call and ask someone to perform to me...

Of course. Within that context it makes practical sense and the capable teacher will most likely deliver. I suspect, though, that the OP had other plans.

[outin]

Something as insignifant as technical ability is simply assumed here, you see, because it is exclusively the result of your interest in/love for Art (talent is passion). So, I can very well imagine that in the heads of some of those pianists/teachers, there is really no point in sitting up on command and doing silly tricks for free. Ability is assumed because of the system they were trained in,

Good for you then!

But it is you who assume the student wants silly tricks and insignificant technical ability only...Why do you assume that's the only thing the prospective student wants to hear? How do you even separate technical ability and musical ability really?

Of course. Within that context it makes practical sense and the capable teacher will most likely deliver. I suspect, though, that the OP had other plans.

I guess I sometimes have more faith in people then

[dima_76557]

Good for you then!

But it is you who assume the student wants silly tricks and insignificant technical ability only...Why do you assume that's the only thing the prospective student wants to hear? How do you even separate technical ability and musical ability really?

I am merely explaining how things *MAY* work in the heads of some when they get such request to deliver during a "job interview", not an actual lesson. The actual intentions of the potential client are not important in this context. Making the request outside the context of an actual paid-for lesson may in itself trigger a certain negativity.

[outin]

I am merely explaining how things *MAY* work in the heads of some when they get such request to deliver during a "job interview", not an actual lesson. The actual intentions of the potential client are not important in this context. Making the request outside the context of an actual paid-for lesson may in itself trigger a certain negativity.

Well, where I am the normal way to meet the potential teacher would be on a trial lesson. I've not heard of anyone giving "job interviews". Another cultural difference...

[dima_76557]

Well, where I am the normal way to meet the potential teacher would be on a trial lesson. I've not heard of anyone giving "job interviews". Another cultural difference...

Here, you first request audition with the potential teacher. This is nothing like a trial lesson yet. The purpose of the audition is to test the student's potential and to get further general advice. If you want to find out more about the teacher him/herself, then you can do that the way I indicated earlier, but certainly not by asking them to play something.

[outin]

Here, you first request audition with the potential teacher. This is nothing like a trial lesson yet. The purpose of the audition is to test the student's potential and to get further general advice.

Do private teachers who teach adult beginners do this also? Seems quite formal

Here you would just call/e-mail and set up the first lesson and then both parties can decide whether to continue or not. I have not heard anyone being refused by the teacher at this point though... If there's no space you would be told right away...

[dima_76557]

Do private teachers who teach adult beginners do this also? Seems quite formal

Yes. Those are the accepted rules. It is they who decide whether they want to work with you or not, not the other way around. There are enough channels to find out the credentials of this or that teacher, so any attempts at "reverse testing" on the part of the potential student would be considered rude and inappropriate.

[outin]

Yes. Those are the accepted rules. It is they who decide whether they want to work with you or not, not the other way around. There are enough channels to find out the credentials of this or that teacher, so any attempts at "reverse testing" on the part of the potential student would be considered rude and inappropriate.

Even if we are neighbours and share a long history, our cultures are very different. We are quite used to straightforwardness and lack of formality, also in educational and professional settings. To an outsider it probably seems like lack of respect.

[Bob]

Long reply list....  I already saw the gist my reply.

Sure.  Just to know what they play like.  But they could be a virtuoso/crappy teacher.

So hearing their students is good.  Recommendations from other people is good.

But... They could still be a virtuoso/crappy teacher.... with praise from people... and students who make progress in spite of the teacher.


Chances are, they're performing somewhere so it won't be hard to hear them play. Or they have a CD you could buy.

[gyzzzmo]

You can discuss here all you want, but that wont give you any info about him being a good teacher or not. Neither will let him play say anything.
He may have horrible social skills and smell like he's been hiking for 2 weeks, but that might actually work for you.

So, if you're stupid enough that only his pianoplaying skills can impress you enough, then by all means, ask him.
For the rest, you can only gain impressions from others or by trying him out.

[louispodesta]

+1

These are separate skills.  The good teacher will probably play well, certainly will play acceptably, but the good player may not be able to teach at all. 

I am glad that someone finally had the guts to say this.  My congratulations on your courage.

When a student makes the decision to ruin their nervous system for the rest of their life by studying under some "big dog" at a top-rated music school, this is exactly what happens.

Once again, thank you for your insight.

[timothy42b]

I propose the following course of action, only half in jest:

Consider taking lessons from teacher A.

Find teacher B, known to be an excellent teacher, skilled at teaching proper technique and good habits in the early stages, and whatever else you're looking for.

Ask teacher B how well prepared transfer students from teacher A are.  It is when transfer students show up unprepared that we find out how good or bad the teaching really was.

Then, take lessons from teacher B. 

Hee, hee.

A variation of this is to go to a recital with a friend who is a skilled performer and analytical observer, and have him watch how the students play, how their mechanics are set up, etc. 

[lostinidlewonder]

I am an adult hoping to get back into playing after a long hiatus.

My question is this:

Is it considered okay to ask a teacher you're considering working with to play for you?

I don't want to be rude or anything, but honestly, I would not be comfortable paying money for lessons from someone I have never heard play.

There is NOTHING wrong with asking this. Probably a quarter of my students ask me to play for them when I first meet them for lessons over the years. Some students react good but there are a few who get demoralized when they hear people playing at a higher level. It is important for a teacher not to always play for a student because we should work at the level the student is at not at the teachers level. Often a teacher will demonstrate what a new piece sounds like or a musical idea while teaching. I think it would be a shame to have a teacher who never demonstrates anything.

[pianoman53]

I, just as Dima, find it rather strange to ask the teacher to play a piece.There are teachers who are rather unable to play anything (My former teacher had an accident in his youth, but still managed to produce winners of both Cleveland and Geneva, and others).
Though, if they are able to play, they will probably play when they explain something, as in"No, you should have more this color, don't you think?", and you'll be able to hear his/her playing from that.

Also, it is actually quite rude to just assume that they should be able to play something well, right on the spot, without any notice.