"Why Bach Is Better Than Pop" piano performance video

[maestroanth]

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[dima_76557]

Ok, lets try this again.

Please make sure that the media player on your site actually works before creating different threads about one and the same thing.

Also and for faster results, you could have just posted that same clip from your YouTube account: Why Bach Is Better Than Pop (Bach/Busoni D minor Fugue)

[j_menz]

Also and for faster results, you could have just posted that same clip from your YouTube account: Why Bach Is Better Than Pop (Bach/Busoni D minor Fugue)

Shouldn't it be called "Why Bach-Busoni is better than pop"?

As an aside, Ferruccio's wife was once introduced as Mrs Bach-Busoni. 

[dima_76557]

Shouldn't it be called "Why Bach-Busoni is better than pop"?

I simply copy-pasted from YouTube what the OP thought the title should be.

P.S.: Some pop by some performers actually sounds a lot better than some Bach(-Busoni) by some other performers, so the comparison doesn't reflect the real world in any way.

[maestroanth]

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[maestroanth]

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[maestroanth]

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[maestroanth]

Also and for faster results, you could have just posted that same clip from your YouTube account: Why Bach Is Better Than Pop (Bach/Busoni D minor Fugue)

Maybe I want people to go to my site instead of youtube?

[dima_76557]

People have no respect over the internet and this drives me nuts.

Yeah, me too, especially parasites and spammers who join forums they are not really interested in with the single purpose of promoting their own external resources.

[nyiregyhazi]

Well, I was hoping for some real replies....not 'lectures' that segue from the topic.  That makes me just want to restart a new thread. People have no respect over the internet and this drives me nuts.

Okay, second of all, it wasn't my fault, it was a problem with the server that was totally unpredictable and out of my control...

Now saying, 'Bach-Busoni is better than pop?' not a very aesthetic title!

You have some good ideas, but there's one fundamental problem - you've regularly lost the sound of the organ altogether. However much phrasing you wish to do, you cannot afford to lose articulation and fullness of tone. If you do, you've gone too far. Some of the notes in the opening in particular don't speak properly. It's much better later on, but you need to find a way of getting the ideas across without thinning out the sound so drastically at the start. It sounded more like cocktail pianism than an organ. I found the massive diminuendos and rallentandos very formulaic and annoying. You can phrase off a little without throwing away the organ quality outright, but you need to be much more consistently positive in your articulation, if the musical ideas are going to sound natural rather than inappropriate.

If I hadn't known that you were playing the Busoni version, from the beginning I'd have assumed that you were an intermediate level pianist who is only used to playing Einaudi, playing an easy version of the fugue. If you don't keep a firm grasp of what it takes to maintain the illusion of an organ, the strength of your intentions to bring specific things out from the texture becomes a weakness rather than a positive point of interest.

You should listen to Jacque loussier. Plenty of musical shaping but never vague or imprecise articulation on lesser notes. Given that you're challenging a casual listener to hear the subject, it doesn't exactly make much sense to fiddle about with the voicing so much rather than articulate it clearly.

[awesom_o]

I watched your video. I agree that Bach is better than Pop... but I was very disappointed to hear Bach-Busoni instead of the real thing, especially when Busoni wasn't mentioned in your title whatsoever! To me, this was false advertising!

If you had titled your video "Why Bach-Busoni is better than Pop", I wouldn't have watched it. While I would have to rate Busoni above today's crop of pop artists like Miley Cyrus and Justin Bieber, I consider the all-time greats of pop music to be quite wonderful indeed!

I appreciate your intention to educate, and I do not wish to be disrespectful in the slightest!

But a lack of disrespect does not automatically equal respect.... just as a lack of respect does not automatically equal disrespect.  

I would love to hear you make another similar video using an actual, pure, unadulterated fugue by J.S. Bach!

[maestroanth]

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[maestroanth]

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[maestroanth]

If I hadn't known that you were playing the Busoni version, from the beginning I'd have assumed that you were an intermediate level pianist who is only used to playing Einaudi, playing an easy version of the fugue.

Heh, I see a 'hidden' compliment in there!  I like catching these.....

[dima_76557]

When someone works hard and opens up their art, the last thing I would ever do is pick fights or 'lectures' that aren't even relevant like a cold-hearted ___________ . To me, that is disrespectful.  Some people just want to knock other people down because of their own insecurities (lack of talent) especially online!

All I did was post a link to a source where your video clip actually works, otherwise we wouldn't have had any discussion about your work here at all. We also wouldn't have known that the example was not real Bach, but poorly performed Busoni instead. As a "thanks", you rather arrogantly make some sneering remarks about "disrespect". Thanks but no thanks. A little more modesty would be in place, don't you think?

P.S.: On topic: your presentation has not convinced me of what is stated in the title. Please correct your performance along the lines indicated by the other posters. Good luck!

[awesom_o]

I do have one or two unadulterated fugues on youtube hidden in their somewhere.  But, I also have a computer that can play them perfectly as well, if you catch my drift

I never heard a performance of a Bach fugue given by a computer that was satisfactory.

Maybe Bach's music is not for you?

[maestroanth]

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[dima_76557]

Oh, sorry man, I didn't see the link. Not noticing that just made it sound like, "you ought to just put the youtube link on here...." again my apologies.

Accepted.

[maestroanth]

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[maestroanth]

Accepted.

Thank you. I totally feel like $%#* about that.....sigh.  I'm soooo fast to go on the defensive strike anymore because of all the music degree stuff with the angry russian professors that likes to swear at his students a lot.  It's a defensive mechanism, and after just making this stupid video, I was in the mode and mistook things the wrong way.

[awesom_o]

I'm soooo fast to go on the defensive strike

You don't say.....

[maestroanth]

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[maestroanth]

And actually..........that's not a bad little thing to add in the video description.  So I did get something out of all this drama! 

[awesom_o]

Also.... a few words on the subject of 'respect' on the internet.

It has been my experience that people ARE quite respectful on the internet, particularly so on this very forum!

However, you cannot FORCE people to respect you. Respect doesn't work that way!

People respect knowledge and creativity! People do NOT respect arrogance and laziness.

You cannot demand respect from people! You can only EARN it!

I would recommend you be careful about calling people things like snobs or trolls, particularly people whose work you are unfamiliar with!   

[maestroanth]

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[awesom_o]

My "forte" if you will, was writing fugues and counterpoint.  However, by the time after grad school, I actually got to the point where I sincerely 'hated' music and it took about 5 years for me to get over that. 

So... you love fugues and contrapuntal writing, but you think Bach's fugues are best left to a computer for interpretation?? 

[swagmaster420x]

Yeah, me too, especially parasites and spammers who join forums they are not really interested in with the single purpose of promoting their own external resources.

I asked this before, but you never answered - how did you get your english so good within just a few years??? Your grammar is perfect and you write skillfully in spite of your earlier posts, which reflect a non-native's clumsy grasp of english. To me it is an amazing accomplishment to progress from the latter to the former.

[maestroanth]

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[nyiregyhazi]

Thank you for the 'real' response!  I'm not going to bother with the 'other' troll above. They tend to not be too bright ;P

All I found of loussier you mentioned were jazz renditions of this fugue?  I don't really see the relevance then....could you give me a link of what you are thinking of?

I actually don't buy the whole, "since it was written on an organ, make it sound like an organ" argument for one obvious fact.....you're playing it on the piano; furthermore, Busoni wrote it FOR the piano. So logically, you might as well adapt it accordingly to make it seem like it was originally written for the piano.  This type of thinking seems pretty aged to me and needs to go.  Actually, this is why in particular, I played the Busoni version instead the Bach version so people wouldn't think "organ" as much.

  "I found the massive diminuendos and rallentandos very formulaic and annoying. "  - Oooo I don't. Even when you use the word 'formulaic', to me says that deep down you believe they fit on some level. To me, it's called having a sense of phrasing in my opinion, and my colleagues and mentors thought it worked well. I guess in your eyes, I've gone too far then!  The Busoni notes just screamed romantic interpretation to me, and I lusted to hear the Bach notes played with this different touch.  I've heard other youtube play this piece like an automaton robot, and it doesn't do anything for me.  I like to feel a rush with my music, listening or playing.

However, while I do appreciate your constructive criticism, the reasoning behind them seem a bit old-fashioned and subjective to convince me to change my performance.  However, thank you for the time you took to express your opinion!

I'm not any kind of purist. This is the kind of playing I like

and pianists like Horowitz would be my idea of how to play Bach Busoni. He voices like crazy and uses the piano's dynamics to the full- but never at the expense of articulation. The problem is that, Romantic or not, Bach's style really needs articulation from start to finish. No matter how much you want to bring out the implied primary voice within the subject, if you lose the sense of the repeated note being important too and relegate it to a mere accompaniment note, then you lose the Baroque style. I suggested Loussier because he's so far from tradition yet still observes the importance of maintaining articulation and never relegates important notes in a voice to the role of mere "filller". Secondary notes are never emptied out altogether.

If you listen to the great Romantic artists, you'll hear the type of thing I mean. You don't have to sacrifice your idea to phrase and bring things out, but there are ways to bring things out without compromising the identity of the subject by turning notes that make interesting intervals into near silent filler. Particularly when the subject is in the left hand at around 1.30, all I can hear is the obvious line. The rhyhtmic energy is gone- because the ear scarcely detects semiquavers being carried through the quavers. That implied quaver line won't get lost by paying extra attention to the note that those ones alternate against. When you hear the intervals and rhythm cleanly, rather than a voice that's split into melody and emptied out filler, there's actually more musical interest going on.

Likewise, when it comes to the way so many phrases peter out, all I hear is music being robbed of nobility- by descending into a kind of flaccid limpness. I love extreme dynamics, but I can't think of a single romantic generation player that I have ever heard who would let the sound slowly slide into a limp, apologetic quality like that. That's for Einaudi and cocktail pianism. If the sound isn't both articulated and resonant (no matter what dynamic level), it's just going too far.

It would terrible if you stripped your ideas away and played everything uniformly, but the strength of the ideas would be upheld if you zoned in on those "empty" notes and just gave them a slightly less positive quality- rather than the outwardly negative quality that is used to bring the other parts out.  Even the first statement of the subject suffers this.

[maestroanth]

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[nyiregyhazi]

I guess I'm confused about your use of the term cocktail pianism. I assume that's a negative thing. I don't think I'd mind being cocktail pianist if I get some cocktails, lol.

I recall a masterclass where Peter Donohoe spoke of how the Berg Sonata shouldn't sound like a cocktail pianist. In that case, I actually thought that the voicing of a fine cocktail pianist could be an excellent model- given how poorly brashly and percussively many voice the chords. I don't feel the same here though.

I have to think about the peter'ing out phrasing.  I'm like playing the sound over in my head, and I don't think it invokes a flaccidness as much for me as a sort of weakness; it would however do that for me if I entered like that after playing the toccata though. But just starting with the fugue and not the toccata, then the subjects suddenly morph into a more fragile form in my mind's eye.  I don't think vulnerability is necessarily a bad thing to portray.

My primary complaint is in terms of voices. When you do it, your sound starts to blend weakly under what is already on the pedal (from the very same musical voice). I don't mind romanticism, but at that point it spoils the essence of counterpoint. I don't mind notes from the same voice still being present if you articulate the new arrivals over the top. But notes are merging under the existing sustain, like Debussy, with a near inaudible quality- when they are supposed to be carrying a musical motif through to completion! I like loads of what you do, but those moments really stand out as going beyond subjective musical taste and into the realms of an objective stylistic problem. They sound plain odd in the context of the excellent sound you achieve elsewhere.

I liked your playing btw in that video...  I don't have much to comment specifically without looking at the score.

That's not me- it's Ervin Nyiregyhazi. I do aim for a similar free style though, when I play Liszt.

[maestroanth]

Hmm....this was a waste of time. I feel foolish getting worked up like this with people I didn't even know.

But my apologies again to dima. Good luck everyone.

[awesom_o]

Hmm....this was a waste of time.

Don't let the door hit you in the Bach on the way out!

 

[maestroanth]

Don't let the door hit you in the Bach on the way out!

 

Oh my Bach!!!  

Oh man, I feel a lot better today.  I deleted all those because I was in a baaaaddd mood and was going through some insomnia (I was up close to 40 hours).  I don't like things posted (good or bad) when I'm not in the proper frame of mind.  I'm sorry, I didn't mean it was a waste of time on your guys' parts, it was on my part because of the attitude walking in, so I wouldn't mind starting on a fresh slate if possible!

Ugh, I want to re-record with some of the suggestions by nyiregyhazi, but unfortunately, a lot more work went into that video than just playing in front of a camera. If you notice, even the first long pause between playing the subject and bridge was there purely just to screw around with a cut idea ;p Looking back it wasn't worth it, haha. However, I had to put the camera at different angles (heck, I even had to tape it to my ceiling for the ending shot), and tried to make look professional with video editting software and what-not, and hell, adding some of the lighting effects even though they may have been a little silly, was downright FUN.  If anyone here want tips on some of those things, like how to get perfect sounding audio and what-not (like with no fuzz in the background), just ask!!!

[awesom_o]

No worries, Maestro Anthony. Welcome to PS! I hope you stick around... it is a very nice forum.

I look forward to hearing your compositions!

[maestroanth]

No worries, Maestro Anthony. Welcome to PS! I hope you stick around... it is a very nice forum.

I look forward to hearing your compositions!

Omg, I listened to some of your videos, and had a lot of fun.  Awesome, I listened to your Chopin Etude piece and loved everything about it!!!!  The video angles were very attractive, the facial expressions, and ya, the piano sounded kinda funny, but you can tell a true professional when that doesn't even matter when they play.  That's why I commented to that one guy, "who cares about that," haha.

Also, the video needed to be better from what nyiregyhazi linked here, so I couldn't tell from that, but I saw some of his other videos and found them enjoyable.  I really don't understand why they voted thumb downs on his Schumann fantasy, but with me, I think with that, it's more the composer's fault.  I never really liked Schumann's music and for awhile tried desperately to find some I can appreciate and couldn't :/  I guess other's see things in there that I don't.  I even played like Pappillions of Schumann's (it was like 12 short little dinky songs that are undeveloped), and I didn't like that piece, but I guess I feigned my interest enough to get accepted in honor recitals that semester.  I still hate it though, haha.

Well, my music education wasn't from the piano department, it was from the theory department at my school although I did have a private piano teacher as well as theory teacher. I wasn't held to the same standard that the piano majors were; however, I had to well, compose things for the theory teachers and give some analysis on music of what they thought of interest.  If you scrounge my youtube profile I think you can find my undergrad piano piece on there with three movements.  Like youtube search maestroanth, piano sonata should bring it up, and it's audio only. Only listen to the first two movements however because the third movement is crap in my opinion where I was trying to force a rondo form and there were way too many segues like in a Schumann piece (lol).

[awesom_o]

 Awesome, I listened to your Chopin Etude piece and loved everything about it!!!!  The video angles were very attractive, the facial expressions, and ya, the piano sounded kinda funny, but you can tell a true professional when that doesn't even matter when they play.  

My Chopin Etude piece? I don't know what you mean. I recorded the Etudes.... but they obviously aren't my pieces . .... which video do you mean... the op. 10/5 on youtube?

I enjoyed your Sonata. Aesthetically, I tend toward a more tonal style when I compose. Structurally, I aim for concise, simple, and universal form. I wrestled with Sonata-Allegro for a while, but eventually opted to sleep on my large-scale ideas in order to further concentrate on developing as a miniaturist. I'm hoping to redraft my plans for a Sonata at some point in the future...perhaps as a duet sonata, but I don't know when I will be ready, and I don't wish to release it prematurely.

Do you have any other compositions which you have released?

[maestroanth]

It was actually the raindrop etude one I stumbled upon.  You were playing it what it looks like a baby grand piano in an airport I think in Estonia?  I didn't know you did all of the Etudes, do you have a link (or series of links) I can follow them with? For some reason, I never liked the Liszt Etudes as much as Chopin's :/

All I have of my grad school work is the physical scores now.  The performer's butchered them and I just wanted to get through that recital because by then I really didn't want to do music as a career anymore......

As far as form goes, when I first got to grad school, my composition teacher at the time witnessed that my music 'meandered' too much and needed direction. So, I stopped writing in pre-determined forms (i.e. rondo form, sonata-allegro, etc.) like I did with the 'piano sonata' somewhat and focused on having points of intensity determine the form.   My favorite pattern I liked was when I had certain material reach a climax and as that died down it would boil down into a single-line fugue subject and then all the sudden the notes felt they had purpose from beginning to end.

It was then, that I wrote two piano pieces I really liked and every guest composer that came along wanted a copy whenever I got a performance (which is odd to get such a positive consensus with them which made me feel good ) However, I never got a performance because I never cared by that point :/

I remember one lesson my teacher and I had a frank talk when I showed him the second piece, and he mentioned, "It was an excellent well thought-out piece", and he went through and picked out random spots saying things like, "Why did you reduce this to only two-line counterpoint? (and then he answers himself) ...because it was the right thing to do. (Turns the page) Why did you add the thickened chord texture at this point? (answers himself) ...because it was the right thing to do." etc. etc.,  and then he shockingly asked me, "I admire composers that write like this; however, was it fun writing this piece?" (I mean, The cliched answer would've been oh yes, music is my life, etc., but people who say that aren't "usually" very good, lol) And at that point, I honestly replied, "No, it was a burden and I hated writing it."

He also seemed to know I was going to say that, and then the rest of the lesson we just had a philosophical talk about the belief systems of whether or not composers should write music that was fun to write (but not as good), or whether they should just write pieces that were truly good but at the sacrifice of themselves losing their marbles so-to-speak.

[awesom_o]

It sounds like you've spent a long time in the education system!  Bartok himself said that you cannot teach composition. It seems as though your experience of studying music in institutions has caused you distress, and threatened your enjoyment of music at the most basic level.

This is dangerous. It is a wonderful privilege to be a musician! A musician is one who brings great joy to the world around him. In order to create that joy, she must experience it herself, so that she may share it with the community! If he cannot feel joy, how can he make others feel joy?

 

If one hates composing, and finds it to be a burden, then without a doubt, his or her music will reflect that state of mind!
It makes no sense that music can be either 'fun to write' or 'good'.... but not both! It is not easy for me to describe what it feels like to compose.

It is not fun in the way that playing a game of table-tennis is fun. At times it can be difficult.....frustrating....tiring....even exhausting..... but when I am in the midst of composing a work, I am in a powerful trance with the Unknown. The most intense, unbridled joy that I have ever experienced occurs during these trance-states. I only wish that I could access such wondrous moments of pure inspiration more easily, more readily. Most of the time, however, I am only myself. In the trance, I AM the music, and the music is me! I study diligently in hopes that my inspiration will become more frequent, more thorough, and more powerful.

You can find my recordings here:
https://carlisleberesford.bandcamp.com/

I have posted most of them here in the past, but there you can find them all in one place.

[maestroanth]

It sounds like you've spent a long time in the education system!  Bartok himself said that you cannot teach composition. It seems as though your experience of studying music in institutions has caused you distress, and threatened your enjoyment of music at the most basic level.

This is dangerous. It is a wonderful privilege to be a musician! A musician is one who brings great joy to the world around him. In order to create that joy, she must experience it herself, so that she may share it with the community! If he cannot feel joy, how can he make others feel joy?

 

If one hates composing, and finds it to be a burden, then without a doubt, his or her music will reflect that state of mind!
It makes no sense that music can be either 'fun to write' or 'good'.... but not both! It is not easy for me to describe what it feels like to compose.

It is not fun in the way that playing a game of table-tennis is fun. At times it can be difficult.....frustrating....tiring....even exhausting..... .

- Well, imagine these feelings times 100 for a year straight to reach a certain objective standard...and pretty much anyone will start to build a 'raging hate' for it. It took me about 4 years of almost complete abandonment before I went back to composing and found pleasure in it again. To write a solid piece that has continuous direction, a lot of experimenting has to be done to keep things interesting, and you end up writing about 8x the amount of notes that are actually written going into the trash that don't make it into the final cut (and good material you throw away too).  Furthermore, the true talent is taking and configuring those puzzle pieces with proper intuition continuously, and being true to yourself of what doesn't work no matter how much you may like it. After awhile this seeps the life out of you.....if you start getting close to a finalized version and then notice a segment that doesn't fit to well, you usually have to dump it and recompose something from that point on until it does fit.

It's funny you mentioned tennis, because I remember a certain tennis player (I wanna say Andre Agrassi, but I'm not sure) came out with a book where he confessed on how he 'hated' tennis and how that built up in him. - This was pretty much what I felt when I heard him talking about it in an interview which a lot of people didn't appreciate him saying these things. I think they misconstrued that as disrespecting the sport or something. I found Agrassi's words to be honest, brave, and admirable.  And it's not like his tennis playing reflected any of that hatred either.  (and perhaps if more people embraced Agrassi's example to heart to promote open honesty no matter how negative their would be less school shootings and things of that sort!)

OUTSIDE of the university, composing even to that high standard of continuous direction is enjoyable again mainly because I don't have to meet any quota or deadline anymore.  I mean, it will probably take until summer before I can get a new post-grad original piano piece on my website, and I've already been composing it for a year with a huge fricken finale file comprised of many puzzle pieces.  And it's funny too because the beginning is just simple and fun with material I came up with as a teenager that's catchy and repetitive (slightly tonal because I wanted to prove you can tonicize in Locrian mode..which demanded repetition), but I didn't had the skill to turn that into a real piece back then. It was also something I've always wanted to play with, but my composition professors wouldn't let me to either ;p ....and after playing with it, I notice it started to take a Beethoven's Fifth symphony type of development X 10 which is really exciting.

I'm listening to your playing of Chopin #3 and #4 now. If I'm not broke right now, I'd totally buy them!

[maestroanth]

Oh hell, I didn't know you were selling them one at a time. Chopin 3 and 4 are my favorites, and I can definitely afford two dollars

Downloading music just reminded me of another project I had in mind and started (totally spaced it because I knew I had a third project pending after the busoni/bach video was done!), which I'd have a good chance at selling downloads. The idea is an Electronic music version of hungarian rhapsody #2. I even took the material that begins the friska and made it longer and turned it into a canon to lead up to the Lassan intro O.o. (because I can't just open with the da' duh' C#'s!  That's too expected)

[awesom_o]

It is very kind of you to offer financial support to a poor musician with no established brand-name credibility. Thank you.

I hated studying composition at university. I hated the compositions of my professors. I hated the fact that none of them played musical instruments. I hated the fact that they wrote using notation software instead of their own hands. If it wasn't for midi playback, they wouldn't be able to hear their own compositions. I believe that the academic world has damaged the art of composition.

People compose to appear clever.... to sound intellectual.... to appeal to composition majors rather than to actual musicians and to the general public. Music needs honesty and sincerity, not cunning. Although I maintain good relationships with my former professors of piano, who love and respect my work.... the people who 'taught' me composition are not my friends.

Here you can find some other videos of me, including one of my compositions.
https://vimeo.com/74077435

[swagmaster420x]

You can find my recordings here:
https://carlisleberesford.bandcamp.com/

where did you get that squirrel??

[maestroanth]

It is very kind of you to offer financial support to a poor musician with no established brand-name credibility. Thank you.

I hated studying composition at university. I hated the compositions of my professors. I hated the fact that none of them played musical instruments. I hated the fact that they wrote using notation software instead of their own hands. If it wasn't for midi playback, they wouldn't be able to hear their own compositions. I believe that the academic world has damaged the art of composition.

People compose to appear clever.... to sound intellectual.... to appeal to composition majors rather than to actual musicians and to the general public. Music needs honesty and sincerity, not cunning. Although I maintain good relationships with my former professors of piano, who love and respect my work.... the people who 'taught' me composition are not my friends.

Here you can find some other videos of me, including one of my compositions.
https://vimeo.com/74077435

Ya, a lot of what you described sounded like my undergrad, and during my undergrad I had a lot more respect for the piano program than the composition program.  My piano teacher didn't like me at first because I really wasn't trained at all, but in two years she grown to adorn me (because I worked hard and have gotten a lot better as if I were a piano major). Also, she wrote this super nice letter of recommendation on this velvet'ish nice paper with all sorts of nice things about my piano sonata specifically the 2nd movement.  When I tried my hand and moved to a different school for graduate school, (that same piece impressed the associate professor there enough to grant a me a graduate assistantship), the composition professors there were actually very good.....It's just that I hated the living environment and I wasn't mature enough back then to fully appreciate it.  I may try to shoot for a PHD in composition, but I figure not until my 40's, lol, right now I'll just stick with finishing my computer science degree and start a career in that. Plus, it's not safe to put all your eggs in one basket anyway.  

However, in both schools, I actually didn't like my colleagues a whole lot myself because I felt a lot of them were in the composition program because of what you described, they can't play an instrument.........and they were always bugging me to play their piano pieces.  What's worse a lot of those pieces were not idiomatic for the piano at ALL.  I only had respect for one colleague, but he was too shy to form any meaningful bond.  In general, I personally believe anyone that is short of being a string, piano, or percussion player as their primary instrument has no business being in a composition program. - but, that may be too harsh and you will find exceptions...

Awsome, That was a charming little piece and I'm glad you are one of those minds that think melodically vs. harmonically.  It seems that people without a strong ear tend to think of things based on harmonies first, but in my opinion the melodic content should determine the harmonies, not the other way around.....

[awesom_o]

where did you get that squirrel??

In my home town. I taught her music lessons for a while but she only wanted nuts. When she got big, she went away to get a full-time job as a squirrel, and I haven't seen her since. 

[awesom_o]

However, in both schools, I actually didn't like my colleagues a whole lot myself because I felt a lot of them were in the composition program because of what you described, they can't play an instrument.........and they were always bugging me to play their piano pieces.  What's worse a lot of those pieces were not idiomatic for the piano at ALL.  I only had respect for one colleague, but he was too shy to form any meaningful bond.  In general, I personally believe anyone that is short of being a string, piano, or percussion player as their primary instrument has no business being in a composition program. - but, that may be too harsh and you will find exceptions...

Awsome, That was a charming little piece and I'm glad you are one of those minds that think melodically vs. harmonically.  It seems that people without a strong ear tend to think of things based on harmonies first, but in my opinion the melodic content should determine the harmonies, not the other way around.....

Well, a computer science degree should certainly provide you with a lot more employment opportunities in today's world than a music degree (or several music degrees, even!).... Good on you for taking responsibility for your own future! Don't think even for a moment that studying computer science will in any way lessen your musicianship! If anything, it will improve your perspective. Some of the greatest composers had day jobs that were unrelated to music! I can't think of very many that had composition PhD's!

It isn't safe to put all eggs in one basket. You have to have many baskets, and for each basket, you have to have many, many eggs. Today's world is crazy!

I'm not saying composers have to be virtuoso players like Daniil Trifonov.... (although he is a very talented composer, and there can be no question that his exceptional pianistic abilities enhance his compositional abilities).... but at the school I where I studied, the only instrument that the composers played was the computer keyboard    The fact that they couldn't hear music in their minds just from looking at scores away from any instrument caused their music to lack broad appeal. Of course, there were a few notable exceptions...a few of the teachers, and a few of the pupils..... mostly people who had earlier instrumental training, who had developed worthy, interesting styles. But there were plenty of hacks!

I like to play many instruments, and I find it helps my ideas at the piano in every way.

I listened again this morning to your Sonata. You have a gift for the dramatic, and I can tell that you put a great deal of thought into the form. The 2nd movement was particularly strong!

I like music to be emotionally uplifting.... my pieces reflect some sort of ideal world, far removed from reality. I suppose the darkness and turmoil in your music is more realistic, considering the world in which we live today.... but I like to combine feelings when I compose, even if the result isn't particularly 'modern sounding'..... happiness, bitterness, sadness, hope, joy.... these are the colours I seek to employ in my work. I want to write music that sounds timeless, rather than modern.

Today, I'm making a final copy of the piece you listened to... in an attempt to get a few handwritten scores ready for self-publication that I can distribute at an upcoming concert. I fixed a few small details that were poorly-executed.... two parallel octaves on the third page, an awkward grace note on the first.... it should sound better now! Quite a while ago, I wrote that little piece!

[swagmaster420x]

In my home town. I taught her music lessons for a while but she only wanted nuts. When she got big, she went away to get a full-time job as a squirrel, and I haven't seen her since.  

Omg, that is so charmingly sad . Kind of like your tales from the void piece, which in my opinion is really really good. Ive listened to it a bunch of times. It's so storylike to me; the melody is just thick with, I don't know, an effusive emotional outcry? that I want it to be accompanied by a visual interpretation. One that was going on in my head while I was listening last was of a boy, now grown, returning to his small hometown only to realize no one is there anymore : (. After wandering the vacant scene, he goes to the house he once lived in and lies in the bed he kept as a kid.
Blah blah blah sentimental images
 The allegretto concludes with its intensely wistful final notes, during which the grown boy imagines with closed eyes his surroundings exactly as they were when he had left - his past briefly comes back to life.

An indicator of the piece's quality, I think, is that it gets better each time I listen. Or at least isn't like something that sounds attractive at first and then rapidly diminishes in appeal with successive listens. Which can be nice, but much easier IMO to write.

[awesom_o]

Perhaps I need to hire you as a animator!
I still feel pretty sad whenever I see squirrels now. The worst part is that I don't know if she is still somewhere out there, scurrying happily from tree to tree, perhaps with a family of her own.... there are many hawks and cars around which are extremely dangerous for squirrels!

I fixed up a few spots in the piece which were bogged down by parallels. It should be a bit smoother now.

Interesting what you say about improvement of a piece over time as a quality indicator.  I agree with this statement, and I consider Bach's music to be the epitome of quality! The more I study it, the more beautiful I realize it is! Another composer who really managed this in my view was Nikolai Medtner. In the future, I plan to dedicate a piece, or better yet, a set of pieces, to Medtner, once the quality of my workmanship is sufficient to bear his name.

[awesom_o]

I'm glad you are one of those minds that think melodically vs. harmonically.  It seems that people without a strong ear tend to think of things based on harmonies first, but in my opinion the melodic content should determine the harmonies, not the other way around.....

This is an extremely interesting subject. I have to go play for church in a few minutes, so I cannot say as much as I would like to at this very moment. Instead, I would like to quote the great master of form both large and small, Nikolai Medtner.

  '.....The intuition of a theme constitutes a command. The fulfillment of this command is the principle task of the artist....The theme is the most simple and accessible part of the work, it unifies it, and holds within itself the clue to all the subsequent complexity and variety of the work.
.....Melody, as our favourite and most beautiful form of the 'theme', should actually be viewed only as a FORM of the theme.....Form (the construction of a musical work) is harmony. Every musician who wants to penetrate into the mystery of musical construction will find himself standing before the closed door of any (even the simplest) construction, if he does not have the necessary key-the fundamental sense of harmony.'

Medtner was a genius. I cannot sufficiently describe what an inspiration his work has been for me! His storytelling ability through the keyboard, according to Rachmaninoff, was unsurpassed! Glazunov called him "an artist guarding the eternal laws of art"!