Afraid of my teacher, but not sure what I can do.

[faa2010]

I have started a course of solfege in a male teacher's school since August, and the courses have been pretty good.

However, I started to hear and read in a web post (and my instincts hit the nail one day about it), that he is a pedantic, arrogant and skirt chaser. I have dealt with those kind years ago, and I am afraid to revive it.

Also I am starting to think about that me and some other female peers are going to be labeled his "fan group" (if you know what I mean), either if he is shown as a sexual harraser or the other way where girls harrases him.

But also, I don't want to quit the school because of fearing of staling in my musical knowledge. But also due to the rumours (and also because a friend of my trust warned me about him), I am getting mentally blocked in what he has and is going to teach during this semester.

I think that the best desicion is to quit his classes and find another school or ways to learn music, but I am afraid that if I quit, I won't learn as I should.

God, not sure what to do. Until now, he hasn't hit on me until now, and also I am trying to be very careful about being closer to him outside the class hours.

Could that be enough or should I quit?

[cwjalex]

It sounds like you should look for another teacher.  There are thousands of better teachers out there where you don't have to worry about being harassed.  Even if he were the best teacher on earth you might not reach your full potential if you are constantly having to worry about all these issues unrelated to music.

[louispodesta]

I have started a course of solfege in a male teacher's school since August, and the courses have been pretty good.

However, I started to hear and read in a web post (and my instincts hit the nail one day about it), that he is a pedantic, arrogant and skirt chaser. I have dealt with those kind years ago, and I am afraid to revive it.

Also I am starting to think about that me and some other female peers are going to be labeled his "fan group" (if you know what I mean), either if he is shown as a sexual harraser or the other way where girls harrases him.

But also, I don't want to quit the school because of fearing of staling in my musical knowledge. But also due to the rumours (and also because a friend of my trust warned me about him), I am getting mentally blocked in what he has and is going to teach during this semester.

I think that the best desicion is to quit his classes and find another school or ways to learn music, but I am afraid that if I quit, I won't learn as I should.

God, not sure what to do. Until now, he hasn't hit on me until now, and also I am trying to be very careful about being closer to him outside the class hours.

Could that be enough or should I quit?

Please contact me by private message, that is if you are for real, I am!

[minimax]

I do not know how old are you, but I am assuming you are past elementary and high school. This response is directed to a person who is self-responsible and not under the parents/guardians supervision.

I will not give You my answer, as this type of question should not have even been asked on any forum, or directed to anybody but Yourself.  Instead, I will give you few points which you may consider or disregard completely. Here is why.

Nobody knows the situation, as it is in reality. Your thoughts about it may, or may not be real. Whatever You may write about it, will not give anyone of us here, required understanding of it at all. Most of the people here are limited by their life experiences, me included. Any answer coming from that limited life experience will be also limited and most of the time not adequate and will cause even bigger confusion for You. There is a “field”, which is whole, total, a true intelligence and you as well anybody else has access to it. It is your true “home”. From that field you will get always a true and correct answer, but it will come as knowing what to do (no choice in it) and not as thinking. Thoughts pertain only to limited and in that dimension we have choices to make.

I will give You example, a little extreme, but sufficient I hope. Years ago I was robbed at gun point. That was my first and last experience like that - so no memory from which I might have drawn any help. When I heard a man’s voice (he was behind me) asking me to give him my money and at the same time heard a sound of reloaded handgun, there was instantly a clarity in my mind. Not a single thought with a question what to do was there. In that clarity there was total awareness of everything that was happening. I knew what to do, it was automatic and was just happening (no decisions to make). I gave him only small change while hiding the rest. Only approx. 5 minutes after he fled the thoughts came back (with all possibilities what could have happened), with thoughts the emotions (fear) and body shaking.

What prevents You from getting answers from True Reality?

You thinking and feeling which comes from fear is the biggest obstacle. Blaming others for what they did to You, getting angry, having self-pity and other similar EGO based responses will do it. Not being responsible 100% for what happens in your life, will keep you locked in limited field of thinking. Is it logical to live in an Ego, suffering mode, when every second of your life You might have access to right decisions? Every delayed response to life, which does not wait for you with it’s constant transformations, will bring problems most of the time.

Accessing that total dimension in us, does not need to happen only in extreme situations. It is available always if we do not act stupid. So, if You want to find out how to use it, You need to study and practice. List of references to material which will give you required understanding you may find in the previous post of Yours. Be the light to yourself and not a slave to others (me included) and their opinions. Be free always - do not limit yourself to any beliefs and rubbish knowledge, which inflates Ego only. Be Yourself.

For now, always make your own decisions and learn from them.

Good luck.

[j_menz]

I do not know

You might as well have stopped there. 

[xxhottie88xx]

Best option: switch to study with a female teacher
Second option: dress really horrible in his class, make him dislike ur looks
Third option: let him see you and the boyfriend together.


But be careful, if he dislikes u too much he might fail you.

[brogers70]

The world is unfortunately full of harassing male creeps. If your gut is telling you that this teacher is one of them, trust your gut and avoid him. There are lots of better ways to learn solfege without having to put up with that kind of crap.

[quantum]

Are you locked into this particular school?  For example, taking a set of courses for diploma.

If this teacher makes you uncomfortable, I'd say leave the class.  Find out of any other teacher at the school teaches the course.  If you have the option, search for other schools or private teachers that offer instruction on the subject.  There are plenty of good teachers out there.

I would only consider staying in the class if this is some sort of required course.  In such case, just keep your distance from the teacher, and make the relationship professional and business like.  Ignore any non course-related interactions the teacher may engage you in.

[timothy42b]

I'm not sure she has to flee this early.

It may depend on how real the risk is.  We know there are rumors, but we don't know if the teacher is really guilty of harassing women.

It may depend on her internal resources.  If she is shy and unassertive, err on the side of caution.  If she is bold and confident, remain observant and cautious but don't panic and run.

If somewhere in the middle, watch the rest of the class carefully.  You will see some who are more easily influenced, and some who make it clear they are not to be intimidated, without being obnoxious.  Model your behavior on the latter people, and you are probably okay. 

All your life you will run into teachers, bosses, managers, coworkers, and others in authority who misuse or abuse it.  Leaving is a good option but dealing with should stay on the table too. 

[cwjalex]

minimax, whatever kind of drugs you are taking i want some

[bernadette60614]

Sexual harassment can exist anywhere...from a college to a corporation.  I've never been assaulted, but I have had inappropriate comments made from comments on how sexy my lips looked to the overly lingering stroke of my arm.

For some men, the only way to relate to a woman is in a sexual way, for others it is a matter of asserting power and control.  To me, it is bullying...the preying of someone in a stronger position on someone in a more dependent or weaker position.

I'd ask:  How would you respond to a bully?  My response over the years is to simply state:  That's making me uncomfortable.  I don't want to destroy our relationship, but I can't continue it if you continue with this behavior.

[keyofc]

You can't believe everything you read - but you can go with your own intuition.
If you are not comfortable, this will stop your progress.  And you may as well go somewhere else if you can't concentrate on music while there.

Good luck!

[louispodesta]

You can't believe everything you read - but you can go with your own intuition.
If you are not comfortable, this will stop your progress.  And you may as well go somewhere else if you can't concentrate on music while there.

Good luck!

In my State of Texas, that is right, you heard me, it is a criminal act to hit on a student, any student!  They passed this law for a reason, and that was to give notice to all sexual predators in our great State that this type of assault (which is what it is!) will not be tolerated, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

[j_menz]

In my State of Texas, that is right, you heard me, it is a criminal act to hit on a student, any student!  They passed this law for a reason, and that was to give notice to all sexual predators in our great State that this type of assault (which is what it is!) will not be tolerated, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

It may surprise you, but it's a crime most places. 

[nyiregyhazi]

It may surprise you, but it's a crime most places.  

Not at all, it depends on the circumstances. Louis didn't actually define those in which it would indeed be true, but I highly doubt it applies to all students. In the UK, within a school teachers cannot hit on children. However, in higher education it's neither a crime nor uncommon for a student and teacher to end up sleeping together. I once slept with a student who came for private lessons myself- who was in her mid twenties when we first met. I hardly think that either counts as crime nor should, between consenting adults and I doubt very much whether laws in Texas or anywhere would make that illegal.

Also, "hitting on" someone and branching out into assault are two very different things that should certainly not be used interchangeably as terms. Outrageous paranoia only cheapens the plight of victims in cases which really do count as inexcusable assault. It's not a crime to make an advance on a grown adult. It's a crime when a person doesn't appreciate that no means no.

[theholygideons]

I once slept with a student who came for private lessons myself- who was in her mid twenties when we first met...

That's dope. Did the student have the initials Y.W.?

[nyiregyhazi]

That's dope. Did the student have the initials Y.W.?

YW?

[keypeg]

It's not a crime to make an advance on a grown adult.

I'm not adept at the law.  However it is wrong when there is an imbalance of power, which is definitely so if one is a teacher and the other is a student.

[Bob]

Easy answer.  Leave.  Report them.  They won't stay in business.  If it's a music school, the school will get a replacement.  You'll still be able to learn. 

[nyiregyhazi]

I'm not adept at the law.  However it is wrong when there is an imbalance of power, which is definitely so if one is a teacher and the other is a student.

To speak so simplistically and unequivocally is ridiculous. You might as well suggest that any form of workplace relationship should be made illegal too. A grown adult came along for a private lesson and was clearly interested and we ended up going on a date. That should be made illegal? What else? Should it be made illegal for a customer in a restaurant to ask a waitress out? There's no less of an imbalance of power in that situation. If anything there's a bigger power imbalance. Are we going to make offering a date illegal in every situation where an independent adjudicator has not been called in to declare the status of each party to be perfectly equal? Obviously next time I play a girl at pool on a date, it would also be inapproprate for me to teach her how to hold the cue properly- lest I accidentally sway the power balance in a way that would make me a sex offender...

A little common sense goes a long way, before resorting to paranoia and assumptions that anyone who has an interest in a fully consenting (not to mention adult) member of the opposite sex is either immoral or a criminal. Making one irrational rule for all situations is exactly what serves to distract from the due seriousness that should be applied to situations in which something genuinely inappropriate is going on.

Asking an adult (who has only ever been known to you as a grown adult) on a date is not in any way comparable to a situation in which a teacher makes inappropriate advances towards a child or harrasses/assaults an unwilling adult. To draw even an iota of equivalence is to make a mockery of quite how serious REAL abuse is.

[j_menz]

In the UK, within a school teachers cannot hit on children.

Outside of school also, I think you'll find.

Between adults, it is not illegal to form a relationship in a student/teacher situation, but I would caution great care in establishing mutual consent. Harassment is a crime, and unwelcome advances constitute harassment.

[nyiregyhazi]

Outside of school also, I think you'll find.

Between adults, it is not illegal to form a relationship in a student/teacher situation, but I would caution great care in establishing mutual consent. Harassment is a crime, and unwelcome advances constitute harassment.

Equally true in any situation. A teacher who routinely made advances on adult students who haven't showed any prior interest in reciprocation would be a fool. But not because that counts as criminal harrassment. Again, such casual uses of very serious terms grossly cheapens the experiences of those who have suffered true harrassment. Harrassment is unwelcome advances that are made in spite of clear rebuttal and without any respect for that- not simply any initial unwelcome advance. If unwelcome advances equalled harassment in of itself, virtually 99% of men would already be in jail. A teacher who regularly made advances on adult students without being sure of genuine interest would be guilty of very poor business sense- as it would clearly put students off lessons, if they didn't desire such advances. He wouldn't, however, be comitting any crime if he chose to express interest in adult students. Particularly not if it occurred in situation where it were clear that interest was mutual. But even if weren't mutual, he wouldn't be comitting a crime any more than if he sent a Valentine's card to a friend, who turned out not to be interested. That's an unwelcome advance, but it's certainly not harrassment- as per your remarkably liberal definition. Shitting where you eat, as they say, might be dumb business sense but it isn't a criminal act- unless you cross the exact same lines that exist about what is acceptable within ANY interaction between two adults.

Harrassment is if a person makes repeated advances that have been established as unwelcome and the teacher doesn't listen to the word no. Anything that implies that a proposition and harrassment are one and the same thing does a truly shocking disrespect to abuse victims, by placing remarkably different issues on level footing. It's on a par with a woman who has had to turn down proposals of marriage telling a victim of violent rape that she's had a "similar" experience and knows exactly how she feels. There is no similarity whatsoever and abuse should not be cheapened by making parallels between an advance (that may or may not prove to be a welcome one) and harrassment against a person's expressed will.


PS. It would be remarkably dumb of a teacher- but they could legally date a sixteen year old who attended a different school, if they were not involved with them in a teaching role. Certainly not a wise career move, but it would only be illegal if they were actively teaching them in school.

[j_menz]

your remarkably liberal definition

Well, one of us is a lawyer and one of us ain't, so ....

[louispodesta]

Not at all, it depends on the circumstances. Louis didn't actually define those in which it would indeed be true, but I highly doubt it applies to all students. In the UK, within a school teachers cannot hit on children. However, in higher education it's neither a crime nor uncommon for a student and teacher to end up sleeping together. I once slept with a student who came for private lessons myself- who was in her mid twenties when we first met. I hardly think that either counts as crime nor should, between consenting adults and I doubt very much whether laws in Texas or anywhere would make that illegal.

Also, "hitting on" someone and branching out into assault are two very different things that should certainly not be used interchangeably as terms. Outrageous paranoia only cheapens the plight of victims in cases which really do count as inexcusable assault. It's not a crime to make an advance on a grown adult. It's a crime when a person doesn't appreciate that no means no.

One of my sub-areas as a philosopher (for which I currently risk my life!) is as a criminal justice advocate.  As such, my focus/expertise is in the two areas of sexual assault of a female and sexual assault of child.

Accordingly, I do know that Leon Fleisher is married to one his former students and so is John Perry.  That means that I know the difference between common flirtation, and subsequent romance.

And, I also know the difference between that specific situation as opposed to a very over-reaching teacher acting as a sexual predator, regardless of this or another particular circumstance.

[bernadette60614]

I'd add this:

As painful as it may be to tell this teacher that you are uncomfortable with his behavior, it will give you the strength to speak up next time you feel bullied.

I"m not suggesting you leave yourself vulnerable, but even though it may be hard to say: You're behavior is making me uncomfortable. Stop.  Once you've said that, you'll find it a source of strength in any future similar situation.

[nyiregyhazi]

Well, one of us is a lawyer and one of us ain't, so ....

Well, I sincerely hope you don't try to prosecute people for "harrassment" on the grounds of an unwelcome advance. Scarcely a man will get through this life without at some point making one. It's what might happen following rejection of that advance that could start to constitute harrassment.

[nyiregyhazi]

Accordingly, I do know that Leon Fleisher is married to one his former students and so is John Perry.  That means that I know the difference between common flirtation, and subsequent romance.

And, I also know the difference between that specific situation as opposed to a very over-reaching teacher acting as a sexual predator, regardless of this or another particular circumstance.

Very well, but no such differentiation was allowed for in your post. It would have been appropriate to make such differentiations- particularly as your wording would suggest that both Fleisher and Perry would have acted illegally, were they in Texas.

[j_menz]

It's what might happen following rejection of that advance that could start to constitute harrassment.

There is some truth in that, but also the circumstances and the nature of the initial (or,  only, if too far) advance can be relevant. A "would you like to go out for coffee" type advance is generally fine; more strident, forceful etc. advances are not. The fact that a student/teacher relationship exists is a consideration if a complaint is made to authorities (and in any subsequent court proceedings).

In addition. for a private teacher, serial "advances" may just make you a sleazebag, but for teachers in an institutional setting it would normally be grounds for dismissal (though variably implemented).

[nyiregyhazi]

There is some truth in that, but also the circumstances and the nature of the initial (or,  only, if too far) advance can be relevant. A "would you like to go out for coffee" type advance is generally fine; more strident, forceful etc. advances are not. The fact that a student/teacher relationship exists is a consideration if a complaint is made to authorities (and in any subsequent court proceedings).

In addition. for a private teacher, serial "advances" may just make you a sleazebag, but for teachers in an institutional setting it would normally be grounds for dismissal (though variably implemented).

I'm not suggesting that it's reasonable behaviour if a teacher should casually ask an adult student if they "fancy a ***?" at the end up a lesson, but even that's not illegal. The teacher would be a fool (and it would be valid grounds for dismissal if he worked for an institution), but it's still extremely important to distinguish between criminal harrassment and very bad manners. An unwanted advance does not automatically consistitute criminal harrassment- and not even such a crass one as that. Anything that fails to make due distinctions cheapens the genuine severity of actual harrassment and the experience of real victims.

[xxhottie88xx]

I went to have lesson at a profs place when im all depressed and desperate about my piano. He asked me to sleep with him. He said we are not professor and student...because he isn't officially my prof... I told him I respect him as a prof, and then he just abused his power... To be honest he sucks at teaching piano and now I totally lost my respect to him

[timothy42b]

I went to have lesson at a profs place when im all depressed and desperate about my piano. He asked me to sleep with him.

So did you?

I'm always curious about why this happens.  It's like the apocryphal "sleeping with the babysitter."  I can see why the older man finds the young girl attractive, but not so much the other way around. 

[outin]

I think many young women are just brought up to be too well behaved and not used to tell what they really think to older people with authority. Those of us who have little manners pretty much make it clear that we set the rules... I remember a couple of incidents in my youth when I had to help my friends with such issues. Those girls were simply too embarrassed to speak out.

If I understood correctly nothing happened yet with this teacher, you've just heard rumours. If something does happen make it absolutely clear at once that you will not tolerate any unprofessional behavior. Don't be worried about being rude, that will just gain you some respect.

[xxhottie88xx]

How do you judge? When I was 14 I had trouble learning french u know what the school edu psychologist told me? The best way to learn a language is on the pillow, so he would send me to a dudes arms directly . In a way it was romantic to say when the power of love finally overcome the love for power we will eventually get a harnonious society and make love not war sh*t, but in another the 30 something year old school psychologist suggesting a teenage girl to have sex with a guy for language is just a total jackass. Back then I was very determined that he was a jackass but now im just morally confused ...

[outin]

How do you judge? When I was 14 I had trouble learning french u know what the school edu psychologist told me? The best way to learn a language is on the pillow, so he would send me to a dudes arms directly . In a way it was romantic to say when the power of love finally overcome the love for power we will eventually get a harnonious society and make love not war sh*t, but in another the 30 something year old school psychologist suggesting a teenage girl to have sex with a guy for language is just a total jackass. Back then I was very determined that he was a jackass but now im just morally confused ...

Well, kids should just try to develope common sense as young as possible. I guess If someone ever told me something stupid like that I would have though to myself "screw French, Ill just learn German instead".

I think there is a problem if one grows up thinking that other people know best and one must be obedient to succeed. Then one does not necessarily question such stupidities and does not trust one's own judgement. Sometimes it's better to think what does not feel right is wrong.

[nyiregyhazi]

How do you judge? When I was 14 I had trouble learning french u know what the school edu psychologist told me? The best way to learn a language is on the pillow, so he would send me to a dudes arms directly . In a way it was romantic to say when the power of love finally overcome the love for power we will eventually get a harnonious society and make love not war sh*t, but in another the 30 something year old school psychologist suggesting a teenage girl to have sex with a guy for language is just a total jackass. Back then I was very determined that he was a jackass but now im just morally confused ...

Are you sure you weren't taking a lighthearted joke rather too seriously?

he would send me to a dudes arms directly

he literally took you to a male Frenchman and instructed you to enter his arms? Unless something SPECTACULARLY bizarre took place here, you're clearly not recounting it literally. It sounds like a heck of an exaggeration to me. You really think he was literally advising you to have sex with Frenchmen, rather than simply making lighhearted references to how French is seen as the language of love?

[keypeg]

To speak so simplistically and unequivocally is ridiculous.

Thank you for the adjectives.  They are your opinion.  I was serious, and had reasons for what I wrote.

[nyiregyhazi]

Thank you for the adjectives.  They are your opinion.  I was serious, and had reasons for what I wrote.

I am sure you did. But those reasons have nothing to do with any situation other than the one you are referring to. If you're comfortable that it's okay to make a blanket judgement of each and any situation that you have no direct insight into, as a result of your separate personal experience of something else, then that's your right. But it's quite remarkable- given how frequently you have complained in these forums about the folly of judging the world as a whole in relation to the narrow experiences of an individual and casually assuming similarity in separate situations. Evidently you don't care to practise what you preach, with any consistency.

Personally, I only ever slept with a student once- who only came for one formal private lesson before we started dating, who was clearly interested and who was in her mid-twenties, as was I. If you want make a sweeping statement that directly categorises this as morally "wrong" (due to a power imbalance) then that's your right. But it's shockingly small minded to judge each and any situation by a single rule, without caring to appreciate that every situation is different and should not be simplistically assumed to match a narrow personal experience (just as you've repeated ad infinitum, on these forums). If whatever you are referring to was something genuinely inappropriate, that only makes it even more important to appreciate that not every situation is identical, before passing casual judgement on separate events- not less so!

Rather than make such a small-minded and judgemental rule about the behaviour of two consenting adults, maybe you should think about following your advice about the importance of treating every situation on its individual terms?

[keypeg]

If you're comfortable that it's okay to make a blanket judgement of each and any situation

It appears that we have run into the usual problem of misunderstanding.  I did not make a judgment on any situation - it was a general statement in response to a seeming general statement.  I cannot make a judgment about the OP's story because I don't know the actual situation.

[louispodesta]

It appears that we have run into the usual problem of misunderstanding.  I did not make a judgment on any situation - it was a general statement in response to a seeming general statement.  I cannot make a judgment about the OP's story because I don't know the actual situation.

Please join the club.  "Nyiregyhazi" presents himself as some kind of applied musicologist whose goal it is to grade our words, as if they had been formally presented for publication.

The real truth is that he is a Cyber-bully of the first rank and order.  And, from here on out, when it is relation to any of my posts, in responding to one his diatribes, I will remind the two pianists who founded and monitor this website, that they are once again sanctioning bullying.

In regards the rest of the very good souls who weigh in on these and other forums, your decisions are your own.  However, there is strength in numbers.

[nyiregyhazi]

It appears that we have run into the usual problem of misunderstanding.  I did not make a judgment on any situation - it was a general statement in response to a seeming general statement.  I cannot make a judgment about the OP's story because I don't know the actual situation.

In response to my words:

It's not a crime to make an advance on a grown adult.

You wrote:

"I'm not adept at the law.  However it is wrong when there is an imbalance of power, which is definitely so if one is a teacher and the other is a student."

Sorry, but you have to take responsibility for your words as you present them. Language does not get more unequivocal than the absolute and final judgement that you wrote there. You can't blame anyone for "misunderstanding" such a clear and straightforward proclamation. No, it wasn't a judgement on one situation- it was a one-size-fits-all judgement on ANY situation where (a fully grown adult) student and teacher should come to sleep together. You didn't define any possibility for exceptions, but passed the same universal judgement on all situations. You even added the word "definitely"- clarifying that you were entertaining no possibility of a single situation that should be viewed any differently.

If you didn't wish to portray such a small-minded and judgemental stance, it really pays not to write in such conclusively judgemental language. If you're only speaking of a narrow range of specific situations then you need to define precisely which ones and not use terms that clearly involve passing identical judgement on ALL situations between student and teacher.

PS. To Louis- I'm not interested in debating you on personal matters. I'm only interested in topical issues. Please leave the ad hominems out and keep it to the subject matter. You are in no position to start claiming moral high ground after your rants about Helfgott being a "spastic lunatic"- so stop trying to suppress freedom of debate.

[xxhottie88xx]

Well, kids should just try to develope common sense as young as possible. I guess If someone ever told me something stupid like that I would have though to myself "screw French, Ill just learn German instead".

I think there is a problem if one grows up thinking that other people know best and one must be obedient to succeed. Then one does not necessarily question such stupidities and does not trust one's own judgement. Sometimes it's better to think what does not feel right is wrong.

Well I had common sense that body is a medium to enter the spirit, to keep your semen精 (or for a girl I guess it's different) you can train the Qi 气  from Qi you train spirit 神. It was not funny to joke about something like that. So for me the part of the spirit training that seems pretty "common sense" was totally lacking at the art school where I attended.

[xxhottie88xx]

Are you sure you weren't taking a lighthearted joke rather too seriously?

he literally took you to a male Frenchman and instructed you to enter his arms? Unless something SPECTACULARLY bizarre took place here, you're clearly not recounting it literally. It sounds like a heck of an exaggeration to me. You really think he was literally advising you to have sex with Frenchmen, rather than simply making lighhearted references to how French is seen as the language of love?

I really hope he was joking, so I can have a bit more faith in him, but The dude left school (dunno if he got fired or quit) the year after.

[outin]

Well I had common sense that body is a medium to enter the spirit, to keep your semen精 (or for a girl I guess it's different) you can train the Qi 气  from Qi you train spirit 神. It was not funny to joke about something like that. So for me the part of the spirit training that seems pretty "common sense" was totally lacking at the art school where I attended.

Read this several times, but still do not understand a word 

[j_menz]

Read this several times, but still do not understand a word  

I understood each word, just not in that order.

But that happens around these parts surprisingly often.

[xxhottie88xx]

Ops now I need to relearn English -.- it was common sense for me that it is important to keep physical chastity (to keep semen, at the abdomen level) because from physical chastity we can gather Qi  (as in Qi Gong, means breathing, or energy, at the lungs and heart level) and from Qi we train spirit (at the head/brain level).

[outin]

Ops now I need to relearn English -.- it was common sense for me that it is important to keep physical chastity (to keep semen, at the abdomen level) because from physical chastity we can gather Qi  (as in Qi Gong, means breathing, or energy, at the lungs and heart level) and from Qi we train spirit (at the head/brain level).

I guess for me common sense means:
If you are generally mature enough to understand the possible consequences (I guess many are not while 14) and REALLY want to engage in a physical relationship with a specific person instead of being unsure about yourself (or someway intoxicated), you should. In ANY other case you must not, no matter what anyone tells you.

[xxhottie88xx]

I guess for me common sense means:
If you are generally mature enough to understand the possible consequences (I guess many are not while 14) and REALLY want to engage in a physical relationship with a specific person instead of being unsure about yourself (or someway intoxicated), you should. In ANY other case you must not, no matter what anyone tells you.

Yah back then I attend a christian church every week so I can tell good from evil

The only reason I mentioned this unpleasant piece of memory is i want to give more confidence to kids who are struggling to find the right path on their spiritual journey.

[j_menz]

I guess for me common sense means:
If you are generally mature enough to understand the possible consequences (I guess many are not while 14) and REALLY want to engage in a physical relationship with a specific person instead of being unsure about yourself (or someway intoxicated), you should.

Subject, of course, to the other person being in the same state.

[outin]

Yah back then I attend a christian church every week so I can tell good from evil
 

Of course the possible consequences depend heavily on your world view and where you live. For me the things to consider were just pregnancy and disease. For someone else it could be wrath of god or being stoned to death.

[outin]

Subject, of course, to the other person being in the same state.

Good reminder! I was taking a rather subjective view...