100 romantic piano concertos superior to the Schumann

[thalbergmad]

[/youtube]
No.1.

No need to discuss, it simply is.

Thal

[ronde_des_sylphes]

One of my favourite under-rated concerti - von Bronsart.

[thalbergmad]

That is a belter. Schumann and his pitiful brand of restrained romanticism would not have been capable of this.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

[/youtube]

Contemporary with the Schumann rubbish. Exceeds it in melodic interest.

Thal

[mjames]

maximum tro-

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I love this concerto: I've half-learnt it but other things have taken priority. Liapunov 2.

[pianoman98]

Could you please list the names of the concerto as well? (In case I don't know one and wanna play it ) thanks!

[outin]

Sauer Piano Concerto E-minor

[outin]

Paderewsky A minor

A rather different recording to what I've heard before btw...I could not find the information who's playing?

[outin]

I think it will not be that difficult to get to 100...

Moszkowski E major

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Sauer Piano Concerto E-minor

Good pick. I bought this when the disc came out. The middle movement of this concerto is very beautiful!

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Scharwenka 1 in Bb minor (Earl Wild, piano)

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Imho the greatest romantic concerto outwith the mainstream repertoire: Henselt.

[theholygideons]

Georgy Catoire Concerto. P.S. Schumann is a load of sh*t

[theholygideons]

[theholygideons]

the fuq's wrong with this sh*t

[ronde_des_sylphes]

For some reason, it only works as http, not https. I've changed it before Thal comes along to point out that "Invalid YouTube Link" is indeed a finer concerto than the Schumann..

[carl_h]

Scriabin - Piano Concerto in F sharp minor, Op. 20

[visitor]

Kosenko pc

[visitor]

Bortkiewicz no1

[thalbergmad]

Bortkiewicz 1 is a great fun piece. Fun is something Schumann had none of.

Fun to him was probably writing crap about other composers in his worthless rag.

Thal

[ahinton]

We seem still to be a very long way away from naming and citing 100 such concertos but, who knows, we may well get there (or even beyond) in the end. Perhaps also the thread title might better be amended from "100 romantic concertos superior to the Schumann" to "100 Romantic piano concertos superior to the Schumann", as I feel sure that no one here is seeking to compare Romantic concerti for other instruments with poor old Schumann's aberration (which I cannot help but wonder why he omitted to suppress as, irrespective of how "inferior" it might be to other Romantic piano concertos, it's undoubteldy inferior to most of the remainder of his own work).

OK, no one has yet mentioned the Busoni, Rachmaninov's four, Medtner's three, Brahms's two, the second concertos respectively by Liszt and Tchaikovsky, the two Concerti da Camera by Alkan or even the Dvořák - and these are just fifteen of the better known ones! Then there's the works for piano left hand and orchestra by Strauss and Korngold, the concertos of English composers Ireland, Bowen and (Alan) Bush and perhaps the most obvious choice, given its name - the Romantisches Klavierkonzert by Marx.

Best,

Alistair

[liszt1022]

https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/s.asp?s=S_1

[outin]

second concertos... by ... Tchaikovsky...

This will not do, Schumann is superior to anything T wrote for piano!

[cbreemer]

This sounds rather like another installment of one man's personal feud against Schumann. Why not
nail your colours to the mast - say that it's the worst concerto ever and be done with it 

Alternatively it might be more fun to find a piano concerto that is even worse than this one....

[ronde_des_sylphes]

OK, no one has yet mentioned the Busoni, Rachmaninov's four, Medtner's three, Brahms's two, the second concertos respectively by Liszt and Tchaikovsky, the two Concerti da Camera by Alkan or even the Dvořák - and these are just fifteen of the better known ones! Then there's the works for piano left hand and orchestra by Strauss and Korngold, the concertos of English composers Ireland, Bowen and (Alan) Bush and perhaps the most obvious choice, given its name - the Romantisches Klavierkonzert by Marx.

Best,

Alistair

Naturally I did consider mentioning those 15 - likewise the Saint-Saens set - but decided I would stick to ones more removed from conventional repertoire. I must admit that I find the Marx Romantic Concerto slightly glutinously sweet!

Reger deserves a mention:

(first movement)

I quite like this obscure concerto:
Adolf Wiklund:

I'm also partial to the two Martucci concerti, but I think that, whilst they attempt the monumental, they're less inspired than, for example, the Busoni.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Alternatively it might be more fun to find a piano concerto that is even worse than this one....

That might involve relistening to a number of early 19th century protoromantic concerti which I've heard once or twice and thought "no thanks, never again"! (and some fullblown later ones which engendered a similar response)

I don't mind this concerto per se, but the last movement is imo quite ridiculous. Catchy but ridiculous   Kullak C minor, last movement:

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Pabst Eb is good fun:

Liszt Malediction:

[liszt1022]

I <3 Liszt but Malediction is staggeringly uninteresting.

[theholygideons]

Wait a minute guys... since when did there exist so many piano concertos? 

[mjames]

We seem still to be a very long way away from naming and citing 100 such concertos but, who knows, we may well get there (or even beyond) in the end. Perhaps also the thread title might better be amended from "100 romantic concertos superior to the Schumann" to "100 Romantic piano concertos superior to the Schumann", as I feel sure that no one here is seeking to compare Romantic concerti for other instruments with poor old Schumann's aberration (which I cannot help but wonder why he omitted to suppress as, irrespective of how "inferior" it might be to other Romantic piano concertos, it's undoubteldy inferior to most of the remainder of his own work).

OK, no one has yet mentioned the Busoni, Rachmaninov's four, Medtner's three, Brahms's two, the second concertos respectively by Liszt and Tchaikovsky, the two Concerti da Camera by Alkan or even the Dvořák - and these are just fifteen of the better known ones! Then there's the works for piano left hand and orchestra by Strauss and Korngold, the concertos of English composers Ireland, Bowen and (Alan) Bush and perhaps the most obvious choice, given its name - the Romantisches Klavierkonzert by Marx.

Best,

Alistair

MEDTNERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR<3333333333333
RACH 1 2 and 4

*** 3. Idk why, but I dislike it.

[theholygideons]

MEDTNERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR<3333333333333
RACH 1 2 and 4

*** 3. Idk why, but I dislike it.

Rach is a manic depressed attention seeker, Medtner is money.

[outin]

Alternatively it might be more fun to find a piano concerto that is even worse than this one....

Someone already did 

[theholygideons]

Someone already did 

And that would have to be the A minor Grieg Concerto, absolute bummer.

[outin]

And that would have to be the A minor Grieg Concerto, absolute bummer.

Nope, that is also a masterpiece compared to the real trash.

But anyway, to be more positive, clearly this would also qualify:

Rimsky-Korsakov C sharp minor

[perfect_pitch]

You know what would make this thread actually more compelling... Only finding concerti that were written within a 5 year period (either way) of Schumanns Piano Concerto. There's a jillion romantic concerti, but lets make this reasonable.

There you go - Try posting only concerti written between 1840 and 1850, or at least write the year any of the posted concerti were written.

[cbreemer]

I am much taken by Kurt Atterberg's concerto

and Geirr Tveitt's first concerto

Maybe not exactly Romantic anymore though.

[outin]

There you go - Try posting only concerti written between 1840 and 1850, or at least write the year any of the posted concerti were written.

Rubinstein E minor, 1850

Not his best though...

[perfect_pitch]

Rubinstein E minor, 1950

Not his best though...

Okay... let me try that again (if you were attempting to post a concerto round about the same time as Schumann's...

There you go - Try posting only concerti written between 1840 and 1850, or at least write the year any of the posted concerti were written.

[outin]

Okay... let me try that again (if you were attempting to post a concerto round about the same time as Schumann's...

Ooops...just a little typo...I'm not good with numbers you know...

[superstition2]

The date of composition is not definitive for classifying a work. Rachmaninov is a good example. The original idea of comparing the Robert Schumann to the rest of the subgenre is more worthwhile than splitting hairs about the composition dates.

However, I think finding 100 better concertos is going to be impossible, because the vast majority of Romantic piano concertos are tedious, posturing, and (ironically) heartless.

[perfect_pitch]

The date of composition is not definitive for classifying a work. Rachmaninov is a good example. The original idea of comparing the Robert Schumann to the rest of the subgenre is more worthwhile than splitting hairs about the composition dates.

Actually, in this case, I think it is. It would be very curious to see what composers were thinking in terms of their instrumentation (if they had any odd choices), their thematic materials and how well they used tonality to really heighten the emotional depth of their music. I would be very interested to see what other composers were writing during 1840-1850, to COMPARE them with the Schumann Piano Concerto. Then we can really rate the quality of the work compared to the other chronologically similar works.

Maybe the 1840's was just a dull decade.       Maybe Schumann hadn't had enough caffeine?

[thalbergmad]

We seem still to be a very long way away from naming and citing 100 such concertos

At the moment, yes.

but, who knows, we may well get there (or even beyond) in the end

Well beyond I would have thought.

. Perhaps also the thread title might better be amended from "100 romantic concertos superior to the Schumann" to "100 Romantic piano concertos superior to the Schumann"

,

Agreed and duly amended.

OK, no one has yet mentioned the Busoni, Rachmaninov's four, Medtner's three, Brahms's two, the second concertos respectively by Liszt and Tchaikovsky, the two Concerti da Camera by Alkan or even the Dvořák - and these are just fifteen of the better known ones!

I was myself sticking to the lesser knowns, in order that me might be dealing with a more manageable figure.

Thal

[throwawaynotreally]

.

[fnork]

Scharwenka 1 in Bb minor

Believe it or not, I was asked by an orchestra if I'd like to do this very piece with them, as they had brought it up over the years a number of times... (we're doing Prok 5th in the end, not a choice I'm unhapppy about!)

[fnork]

Also, although this is not a 'concerto' per se, here's a work for piano and orchestra that I find superior to the Schumann concerto:

(edited video, not the entire performance - am doing the pece again in a year, perhaps will be able to post that in its entirety!)

[thalbergmad]

I would have to concede that on this occasion, Schumann does appear to be superior to Schumann.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Born in the same year as the Schumann virus, we have the Op.1 by Norbert Burgmuller.

Burgmuller's music was actually appreciated by Schumann, who no doubt appreciated that it also eschews display pianism as his own muck did, however, I find this work is of sufficient melodic interest to keep my attention over it's full length.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Whilst not on youtube yet as it is a reasonably recent release, is the sparkling concerto Op.7 by Dohler who was another contemporary of Schumann, but thankfully was not infected by Boredom Fever. This work is in the "brilliant" category and is full of quality melody.

If you want to crap marble, listen to Schumann. If you want entertainment, listen to Dohler.

Thal

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Scharwenka 1 in Bb minor

Believe it or not, I was asked by an orchestra if I'd like to do this very piece with them, as they had brought it up over the years a number of times...

That's very cool. I vaguely know someone who has learnt Scharwenka 4, but I doubt he's had the chance to play it with an orchestra.