How much off of retail?

[SJ]

Howdy!  I'm starting to look at purchasing a new piano.  Currently have an old Howard (Baldwin) 5'3 Grand.  Would like to purchase a new piano (5'8" minimum).  My budget is around $20-25K.  I understand that piano dealers will negociate.  Although I'm not trying to get the cheapest deal, I would like to get a feel for what I can shoot for (20% off, etc.).  For example, a new Yamaha C3 (Polished Ebony) retails for $28,555.  What would be a good price for this?  Thank you.  SJ

[rachfan]

I've read that the dealers' margins on new pianos (depending on brand) fall into a range of 39 to 46%, considerably higher than the 20% discount you're seeking.  I cannot advise you on the C3 specifically.  If you are near a bookstore, in the music/piano section you'll find Larry Fine's Supplement to The Piano Book.  Therein, he gives average sale prices by brand and model.

If the Yamaha will do it for you, terrific.  Personally, I  dislike the woody bass and the brittle treble on their grands, although the actions are quite even.  There is very little sustain there, and that fast tone decay makes playing classical music extremely difficult.  Jazz pianists find it to their liking though.  I own a Baldwin L (6'3").  I have lived close to Yamaha dealers in two cities, tried their grands several times, plus played a neighbor's alot, but never liked them as well as my Baldwin.  But everyone looks for different characteristics in a piano.  Good luck in your quest.

[tosca1]

Like most traders, piano dealers will certainly negotiate with you.
If you can offer a cash price, a discount should be forthcoming.
In your selection of the piano it is  helpful to be informed and to try many pianos before making your choice. Ultimately you must trust your your own taste and instincts when you decide to make the purchase.  
It is a very personal and subjective  choice and all pianos have their devotees and their detractors. The great Beethoven exponent Artur Schabel preferred the Bechstein to the Steinway and the legendary Richter said that his favourite piano was the Yamaha. Of course your personal response to an instrument is the most important factor but always balance that with sensible, objective considerations such as the reputation and durability of the piano and your security of investment.

Good luck,
Robert.

[SJ]

Thanks for the info.  So far, I've tried Yamaha, Estonia, Steinway, Boston, Pramberger (YC),  and Baldwin (only a 5'2).  For my price range, I seem to like the Estonia the best at this point.  The YC had a big/bright sound, but I think it would wear on me after a while.  I would like to try a larger Baldwin.   SJ

[rachfan]

Hi again SJ,

See if you can play a Baldwin R1 (5'8") or an L1 (6'3") and see what you think.  Their SF10E (7') is going to be beyond your stated budget--mine too, although if I had the room, I'd love to own one.  If you see one of those though, play it anyway!!  

No 5'2" piano including the Baldwin M1 and the Steinway S is going to sound particularly great, owing to the short strings.  The longer the strings, the richer the sound, as you've already discovered.    

[dinosaurtales]

One thing I found in my research is that *retail* or *list* price is a ficticious number.  I believe several manufacturers and dealers use it to give the impression you are getting a better *deal* - like they'll have a piano that *lists* at $90K, but they'll sell it to you for $40K.  Well, nobody in their right mind would EVER pay 90 for the thing, and by doing a TON of research, you will uncover the *going rate* for the pianos you are interested in.  I would NEVER assume you are getting a *better deal* just because the price off list is bigger.    If you are looking at spending 20 - 25 look at EVERYTHING - even ones that seem way too much.  It's amazing how quickly you will figure out what you can get different ones for - within a few thousand anyway.  Then you can prioritize your pianos, and start making offers.  If the first one doesn't stick, sit for a week, and maybe the dealer can get creative - you just never know.  There are a lot of good pianos out there, and they know that, too!

[classicarts]

Estonia's are great pianos.  If I had the choice, I would definitely pic that over a Yamaha.

[jolly]

Yammie dealers typically won't go much beyond 20%, Kawai usually a bit better.

I'd offer in the 40% range, but be prepared to take the deal if the dealer happens to be that crazy. Anything from 30% up....you've done well.

[gorbee natcase]

Can I ask you, is there anything wrong with buying a good second hand piano(it just makes more sence to me to spend good money and get a better bargain)

as pianos go down in price and quality remains the same (if maintained) perhaps  a second would be the ideal choice!!!

[hockeyguy]

Hello--
I'm new here. I agree with the above. Why buy new when good pianos can last 100 years (with or without rebuilds)? Why not buy it already depreciated.

I just purchased a used piano, a 1985 Bosendorfer 225 7'4" ebony grand in perfect condition, for $40,000-- the same price of a lesser quality new Yamaha C6 or C7 these days. And in 10 years, I likely won't lose a dime on it in depreciation any more, while a C6 will probably be worth only 12-15K.

For 20-25K you can find a decent used Steinway L or similar. I even saw an ad recently for a 30 year old used Bluthner 6' 10" grand for around 20K.

[sbstanfill]

I bought a used Baldwin (5'2") - it was very affordable and since it was a couple of years old and had been played alot, I knew it didn't have any major problems.  So, I'm a fan of used. I know some music festivals and summer music camps buy pianos and sell them at a moderate discount at the end of the summer, having no room to store them. I suspect those are good buys as well.
In terms of retail - we got dealers immediately offering about 15 to 20% off 'list'.

[florentin]

Ok. I used to own a music school and music retail store.

You need to think this way: how much did they pay for it? The minimum discount for instruments for any dealer is 50% but most dealers get a lot more because they buy large quantities.

Let me give you an example. That Yamaha you were talking about. It retails at around $28,000 you said. I am assuming they got it at 50/20% at least. That means they got 50% off the retail, plus an additional 20% off of what is left. That means the piano you were looking at cost the dealer $11,800. Maybe less... I've seen manufacturers offer instruments as low as 50/40% but maybe not Yamaha.

So if the dealer payed about $11,000 for it, they could easily afford to sell it to you for about $20,000, and still make a good chunk of money. The question is if they are willing to do that.

It is really a question of "who is more desperate"... Are they desperate to sell it and get some cash flow, is the sales person desperate to sell it and make a good commission, or are you desperate to buy it?

Also, if they are not going to go down in price so much, you can always ask for other things: free tunnings for five years  , free delivery, store discount for buying sheet music, and so on.

Good luck