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Dogs (Read 2269 times)

Offline love_that_tune

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Dogs
« on: March 10, 2015, 03:43:30 AM »
Have a lovely family where I teach their three adorable daughters piano ages 5, 7 and 9.  Nice parents, kids are doing great. 

H-o-w-e-v-e-r when I walk in the door their labradoodle jumps all over me.  The dad, clearly clueless how to handle a silly puppy, keeps saying to the dog "no jumping" while holding the collar.  Meanwhile the dog is all over me.  Rinse and repeat.

Now I'm a country girl and an avid Dog Whisperer watcher.  Personally I would knee the dog in the chest and/or never let him within sight of me when I'm entering the door.  Same scenario every week. 

I feel a little ridiculous.  I suggested once that dogs only hear commands like no, and off, etc.

So, should I get over it, wear jeans, make nice or what?

I really really like this family, but oh my this annoying.

Offline pianoplunker

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #1 on: March 10, 2015, 04:46:31 AM »
Have a lovely family where I teach their three adorable daughters piano ages 5, 7 and 9.  Nice parents, kids are doing great. 

H-o-w-e-v-e-r when I walk in the door their labradoodle jumps all over me.  The dad, clearly clueless how to handle a silly puppy, keeps saying to the dog "no jumping" while holding the collar.  Meanwhile the dog is all over me.  Rinse and repeat.

Now I'm a country girl and an avid Dog Whisperer watcher.  Personally I would knee the dog in the chest and/or never let him within sight of me when I'm entering the door.  Same scenario every week. 

I feel a little ridiculous.  I suggested once that dogs only hear commands like no, and off, etc.

So, should I get over it, wear jeans, make nice or what?

I really really like this family, but oh my this annoying.

I have 3 dogs very eager to meet whoever would come visit. I think it would be very well within reason to ask to have dogs temporarily confined while you are there if they are not quite obedient. BTW, "no jumping" has way too many notes for a dog. Better to firmly say DOWN! and be done with it

Offline j_menz

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #2 on: March 10, 2015, 04:47:15 AM »
Use the knee. You can explain afterwards.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline chopinlover01

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #3 on: March 10, 2015, 04:57:33 AM »
You could talk to the family about it. I wouldn't drop them personally, nor would I knee their dog; that makes them likely to leave you.
Jazz Ambassador 8)

Offline j_menz

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #4 on: March 10, 2015, 05:16:03 AM »
nor would I knee their dog

It's the best way to stop dogs jumping up on you. It's not a hard kneeing, it's a gently push - just enough for the dog to be pushed back and get the message the advance wasn't welcome.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline pianoplunker

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #5 on: March 10, 2015, 05:25:18 AM »
Use the knee. You can explain afterwards.

knee must be done in a manner only to make the dog uncomfortable about jumping on you but not so hard that the dog has ptsd about it later. it could backfire if done too much. dog could turn into a hater

Offline outin

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #6 on: March 10, 2015, 06:20:52 AM »
I think it's just reasonable to require the dog to be confined if you are to go to their home. Unless they pay for you to teach the dog as well.

I have no issue with confining my cats when necessary and if you do it regularly when they are young, they soon learn to quietly accept that. I always get annoyed when people let their pets bully them (or visitors unless unwanted)...

Offline bronnestam

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #7 on: March 10, 2015, 09:49:25 AM »
My young shetland sheepdog does the same. Or, he is a master at balancing on his back legs, so he rather gives people "hugs". Rather soft and gently, and most people seem to like these friendly hugs. (At least as long as his paws are not dirty, ehm.)
But he is very big for being a sheltie so he must learn not to jump. However, my older sheltie behaved just like that when he was young. Now he is old and he never jumps.

If this dog is just a puppy or a youngster, I wouldn't make this a big deal. Wear jeans, yes. One thing I always do is grabbing the dog's paws or forelegs and hold them, just like I would shake a child's hands. Then I have control of the dog and can gently keep him from me a bit, and finally I can put him down, say "down!" and praise him a lot when he has all 4 paws on the ground. This assumes, however, that the dog is not the size of a Leonberger ...  ::)

As I believe strongly in positive enforcement, in dog training just like in piano playing  :)  I think it is a much better idea to praise and reward the dog when he is doing something right, rather than waiting for him to do something wrong and say "no!"  You can, if you are ambitious, bring some treats with you. Tell the family to command the dog to sit when you enter the house, and when he sits down, you greet him - totally ignore him before that -  and give him a treat. If you do this often enough, the dog will associate your entrance with "here comes ... now I will sit, then I will get a treat!"

This is a very gently way of teaching the dog to behave nicely. You will be happy, the dog will be happy - after all, his only wish is to DO THE RIGHT THING, he just does not know that he is doing something wrong!
Now, imagine you are to teach a little child, who has never played the piano before. You put her on the piano bench, tell her to play ... she touches a key - and you give her a firm push and roar "NO! Not THAT key! You are doing it WRONG!"
That will teach her to play right and to love piano playing, sure? Well, most teachers are not that stupid to children, thank God. But dog trainers can do just like that and then they blame the DOG for "bad behaviour"!!!

So this poor dog thinks he is doing the right thing - a visitor comes, he greets the visitor as friendly as he can, to show what a good guy he is, and as everybody get excited and he gets a lot of attention, he must believe this is right. Next time he will happily do the same thing again. And then suddenly he gets an unfriendly push and someone yelling "NOOO!" to him - now what? What is he supposed to do now? So he desperately wags his tail to show that please, I AM a good guy, and he tries once more to get in physical contact, perhaps lick you in the face which also is his way of showing that he is friendly and inferior, because that is how a puppy greets his mother.
 

I guess that the command "no jumping" does not help much here, right? So, instead show him what to really do, what works, and he will do that. (And he will love you for the treat.) It will cost you humans some moments of work, because you will have to make an agreement, but still - the dog is just trying to be good.

Offline bronnestam

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #8 on: March 10, 2015, 10:00:11 AM »
PS. I think a gently push with your knee can work as well - you don't even have to push, you just lift your leg a bit so that the dog has to back off, and AS SOON AS HE HAS HIS PAWS DOWN, you praise him a lot! Also repeat the word "down" several times while you praise him. "Down, good boy to go down, down, yes, you are a good boy, down, down, down ..." and you also makes sure he gets a treat.

Perhaps you think this is the owner's task to do this dog training (and I agree!) but bear in mind that you actually are a part of the procedure - they cannot teach the dog how to behave in your company, unless you are not there.

Offline outin

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #9 on: March 10, 2015, 10:06:24 AM »

Perhaps you think this is the owner's task to do this dog training (and I agree!) but bear in mind that you actually are a part of the procedure - they cannot teach the dog how to behave in your company, unless you are not there.

Unfortunately a large proportion of dog owners simply cannot train their dogs at all... It really is not that difficult to teach a dog not to jump on visitors, but most people just don't have the patience and skills to do that :(

But it really should not be the visitors job to teach anything and it can be done just with normal dog training at home. I've succesfully taught every single one of my cats (also adults who already had this bad habit when they came to me) to NEVER put their teeth on a person. And some of them really would like to, not for being mean, but because it's something typical for this breed to do whether they are showing affection or otherwise trying to send a message. One of them still checks me out every now and then to see if I'll let him :)

Offline j_menz

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #10 on: March 10, 2015, 10:41:23 AM »
Unfortunately a large proportion of dog owners simply cannot train their dogs at all...

That is, sadly, very true. But that is no reason not to train them as needed yourself. I've found most of them positively amenable. Of course, I know what I'm doing, and what to do when the teeth come out, so perhaps people might consider their own skillset in that regard first.

Lunch is, after all, what one should have, not become.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline love_that_tune

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #11 on: March 10, 2015, 01:47:41 PM »
Alas, I have tried every one of your suggestions except for the biscuits.  It's impossible to knee the dog, however gently, because the Dad is three feet in front of me contributing to the situation.  He has the dog by the collar.  I try to stand back.  The man is saying sorry, he does this to all our friends.  You get the picture.  I have already said that dogs can only hear one syllable such as off.
I've seen a lot of over-bred hysterical labradoodles.  It's the favorite breed here in yuppie land.  There is a an actual fence, I'm not kidding, with a gate between the kitchen and the living room area.  Adding to the absurdity is that this is a multi-million dollar home, the point being that there is intelligence involved and/or success.  All of this happens when I come in the door. 

I actually love dogs but would never let one of mine do this to other people. 

Alas, Monday has to be sometimes-wet-paws-dog-jumping slacks/jeans. 

Offline tea42

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #12 on: April 06, 2015, 05:51:13 PM »
I once taught a family with a Jack Russell Terrier. This dog was so smart that whenever he saw me coming he would jump up and run back and forth across the piano keys.

I think he was actually a lot happier about piano lessons than the kids were! :D

Offline love_that_tune

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #13 on: April 06, 2015, 06:09:35 PM »
That is hilarious, well the telling is hilarious.  Perhaps it answers the mystery of pianos with teeth marks on all the keys.  Not sure if they just chip that way or what.

Thanks for the laugh.  Gives new meaning to the piece 'Kitten On the Keys'.

Offline timothy42b

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #14 on: April 06, 2015, 06:15:08 PM »
Alas, I have tried every one of your suggestions except for the biscuits.  It's impossible to knee the dog, however gently, because the Dad is three feet in front of me contributing to the situation.  He has the dog by the collar.   

Kneeing is an old fashioned remedy that, like stepping on their toes, worked occasionally but had some side effects.

Gentle kneeing is worthless.  Dogs have positive thigmotaxis and will generally push back in pleasure. 

We had no problem teaching our dog not to jump up on us.  When she was a puppy, we just removed our attention.  When she started to jump, we turned away and pretended to ignore her.  When four feet were on the floor we made eye contact and praised her.  It worked quickly.

But it did not last.  Everybody who met her thought she was cute, and just as quickly sabotaged the training.  So it was a constant cycle of us training and others un-training her.  "Oh, you're so cute" and leans over and when the dog starts to get excited and jump up, they praise and pet her.   

In your case since it's not your dog and the owner won't train it, you're pretty much out of luck.   You can try the pointed-ignore, it may help slightly.   
Tim

Offline pristinepiano

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #15 on: April 13, 2015, 04:48:57 AM »
Bring a doggy cookie, and hold it real low.  Let'm work for a bit, sniffing/nuzzling, beore he gets it.  After a while, just hold your hand down low when you first greet it and it will hover there because you broke its mental pattern about what to do with you.

Offline ahinton

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #16 on: April 13, 2015, 11:42:04 AM »
Dogs are for farmers, specially trained police and security officers, drug investigators and a few other purposes (guide ones for the blind and poorly sighted, for example) - but that's it as far as I'm concerned; why it is that some people keep them as pets has never ceased to puzzle me.

Was it not Ogden Nash who wrote "dog is man's best friend but women make better wives"?...

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline timothy42b

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #17 on: April 13, 2015, 12:33:47 PM »


Was it not Ogden Nash who wrote "dog is man's best friend but women make better wives"?...

Best,

Alistair

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside a dog, it's too dark to read. 
Tim

Offline ahinton

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #18 on: April 13, 2015, 03:09:45 PM »
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside a dog, it's too dark to read.
Yes, that too!

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #19 on: April 14, 2015, 05:31:29 PM »
Can't stand the blasted things and I hate being pawed sniffed and jumped at.

I think you would be well within your rights to shoot the damned thing.

Hope this helps.

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline timothy42b

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #20 on: April 14, 2015, 05:51:50 PM »
Can't stand the blasted things and I hate being pawed sniffed and jumped at.

I think you would be well within your rights to shoot the damned thing.

Hope this helps.

Thal

Or slam the fallboard down on its paw.  That usually cures them. 
Tim

Offline dcstudio

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #21 on: April 15, 2015, 01:12:58 PM »

don't like dogs either...  I tell parents I am horribly allergic and make them bring their kids to my house for their lesson.   


actually I was hoping y'all were discussing the Pink Floyd tune...dogs.. 

do any of you remember this?


Offline ahinton

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #22 on: April 15, 2015, 03:43:52 PM »
Or slam the fallboard down on its paw.  That usually cures them.
That would be rather cruel.

To the piano.

"How do you pronounce dogs?", as another thread on the forum goes; my answer is simple - I don't.

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline bernadette60614

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #23 on: May 11, 2015, 06:31:44 PM »
This isn't a dog problem, this is an owner problem.

Our son has a tutor come to the house twice a week, and we have two very social, small dogs.  I ask her to call me as she parks her car so I can put the dogs behind a closed gate in our house.

Since the parents aren't being proactive, you could always suggest this under the guise of "this way we can get right to the lessons."

Offline michael_sayers

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #24 on: May 12, 2015, 01:11:28 PM »
Have a lovely family where I teach their three adorable daughters piano ages 5, 7 and 9.  Nice parents, kids are doing great. 

H-o-w-e-v-e-r when I walk in the door their labradoodle jumps all over me.  The dad, clearly clueless how to handle a silly puppy, keeps saying to the dog "no jumping" while holding the collar.  Meanwhile the dog is all over me.  Rinse and repeat.

Now I'm a country girl and an avid Dog Whisperer watcher.  Personally I would knee the dog in the chest and/or never let him within sight of me when I'm entering the door.  Same scenario every week. 

I feel a little ridiculous.  I suggested once that dogs only hear commands like no, and off, etc.

So, should I get over it, wear jeans, make nice or what?

I really really like this family, but oh my this annoying.

Hi love_that_tune,

If they don't know how you are feeling, then how can they respond?  I would tell them before my next visit!


Mvh,
Michael

Offline michael_sayers

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #25 on: May 12, 2015, 01:13:31 PM »
Dogs are for farmers, specially trained police and security officers, drug investigators and a few other purposes (guide ones for the blind and poorly sighted, for example) - but that's it as far as I'm concerned; why it is that some people keep them as pets has never ceased to puzzle me.

Was it not Ogden Nash who wrote "dog is man's best friend but women make better wives"?...

Best,

Alistair

Hi Alistair,

Maybe you could try having a canine around for a bit to see what the fuss is about?  Offer to babysit a neighbor's canine for a week or two while they are out of town and I think you'll discover particular sort of attachment which ensues.


Mvh,
Michael

Offline michael_sayers

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #26 on: May 12, 2015, 01:14:36 PM »
Can't stand the blasted things and I hate being pawed sniffed and jumped at.

I think you would be well within your rights to shoot the damned thing.

Hope this helps.

Thal

Hi Thal,

You should try out my advice for Alistair, too!


Mvh,
Michael

Offline michael_sayers

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Re: Dogs
«Reply #27 on: May 12, 2015, 01:16:00 PM »
don't like dogs either...  I tell parents I am horribly allergic and make them bring their kids to my house for their lesson.   


actually I was hoping y'all were discussing the Pink Floyd tune...dogs.. 

do any of you remember this?



Hi dcstudio,

And again as posted above to Alistair and Thal. ;)

I hope that all is well with you!


Mvh,
Michael