Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto No. 4

[joaosousa]

It's just me or you think that Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto 4 is underrated to ? I think that it is a masterpiece. At least as good as the 3rd. What's your opinion? Which is you favorite concerto by Rach?

[chopinlover01]

I actually don't much care for Rach 3. It's not a bad concerto, just seems like mostly flash and bang mixed in with a few moments of beautiful melodies.
I much prefer the second, which, while it's also largely crash and bang, it seems discernible to my ears. The third just has way too many notes for my taste.
The fourth (although I've only listened to it a handful of times) is also an excellent piece of music. I much prefer it over the ever famous 3rd.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I think the 4th is really good, but I still prefer the other three over it.

[mjames]

"too many notes" 

What makes your post even more funny interesting is that you call yourself "Chopinlover" lol...

[rachmforever]

I actually don't much care for Rach 3. It's not a bad concerto, just seems like mostly flash and bang mixed in with a few moments of beautiful melodies.
I much prefer the second, which, while it's also largely crash and bang, it seems discernible to my ears. The third just has way too many notes for my taste.
The fourth (although I've only listened to it a handful of times) is also an excellent piece of music. I much prefer it over the ever famous 3rd.

Maybe you just don't get it 

[chopinlover01]

Probably more true than I know.
Perhaps it's the chromatic LH I don't care much for? Don't know. But it's particularly present in the 3rd movement.

[mjames]

Perhaps it's the chromatic LH I don't care much for?

You must hate a lot of Chopin's works then. Amirite?

[chopinlover01]

sadly, you're mistaken. I don't mind chromaticism, but when the LH is only doing that in rapid 32nd notes... It bugs me.
It could well be my own personal taste or it might grow on me. Who knows?

[chopinlover01]

Although, I will be the FIRST to admit that Chopin's Scherzo no.1 is a huge criminal of this. Not so much chromaticism, just too many fking notes.
Wouldn't you know, I very much dislike it 

[mjames]

Although, I will be the FIRST to admit that Chopin's Scherzo no.1 is a huge criminal of this. Not so much chromaticism, just too many fking notes.
Wouldn't you know, I very much dislike it  

Really? The first scherzo? Too many notes? What about the other 3? Or the etudes? La Ci Darem la Mano Variations? The Ballades? The late polonaises?

And you still cal yourself chopinlover???!??!?

The first scherzo is the shortest of all 4. it just repeats itself a lot. It's "long" but there's less content in it than the other 3.

[diomedes]

The first scherzo is the shortest of all 4. it just repeats itself a lot. It's "long" but there's less content in it than the other 3.

I'm picking that one up next month. When i started some learning of it a month ago, i was astounded by the amount of repetition in it. It's basically a 5 page piece.

[8_octaves]

But when, in the cold and dark winter evenings, people and families, especially in Poland, Chopin's country, are sitting comfortably in front of the chimneys, enjoying the coziness of the fire's warmth, and listening to old stories and tales the grandma still knows and is telling, since it's Christmas time, and suddenly the melancholic fragments of the old song "Lulajże Jezuniu", sung by the monks of the choir in the church at the other end of the village, are driven by the icy wind to the houses, then people do like the Scherzo b minor very much, I think.

Cordially, 8_octaves, and noo, I'm neither clichéd, nor romantic! But I like such pictures!

[chopinlover01]

I meant, there's a bunch of notes going on at once. And the sections can tend to drag on a bit...
As for the second and third scherzi, he writes them in a way where the notes make sense in their phrases. The first does not always have that.
Props to diomedes for picking it up. I've heard it's easier than the other three but never found that to be true when I've played through it (or rather, tried to).
Some of the etudes have that quality, to be sure. But all of them (except perhaps 10/2) fit within their respective ideas.
Yes, I'm a Chopin lover. I don't worship the ground he walks on, and he has his fair share of "bad" compositions, as does every composer (including Rachmaninoff). I do love the middle section of that scherzo, just not the rest. Somewhat similarly, I much prefer the middle section of Scherzo 3 to the rest.

[mjames]

What you don't like=/= meaning its a bad composition. I think you need to understand that.

[diomedes]

Props to diomedes for picking it up. I've heard it's easier than the other three but never found that to be true when I've played through it (or rather, tried to).
Some of the etudes have that quality, to be sure. But all of them (except perhaps 10/2) fit within their respective ideas.

I don't think it looks too bad, but it usually becomes clear only at the end of the process. Im nearly done with 3 right now and finished 2 earlier, didn't bother yting it yet. Too many other things going on.

[diomedes]

As for the topic, I don't know the 4th rachmaninov concerto very well. It appears to me like it needs more patience than the other concertos, but i really have not given it a chance to be honest. I really should.

[pianist1025]

"too many notes" 

What makes your post even more funny interesting is that you call yourself "Chopinlover" lol...

If you've come across enough of his posts, and probably his signature, you might have noticed that this kid is full of horsesh!t

[chopinlover01]

Out of blatant curiosity, what about my signature shows you that I'm "full of horseshit"?

[pianist1025]

Out of blatant curiosity, what about my signature shows you that I'm "full of horseshit"?

You're always going on about how easy you find the coda of the 1st Ballade, but whenever someone asks you for a recording, even a short snippet of it, you get all defensive. You've lost all credibility to me frankly. And I highly doubt that you're working on all of those at the same time, after hearing your two recordings.

[pianist1025]

BTW, just to stay relevant, I agree that Rach 4 is pretty underrated. For me, some bits I love, but some bits not so much.
Prefer the other 3 however, but I'd love to hear it performed more often. Favourite is 2nd.

[chopinlover01]

Always going on about it? I believe that was November of 2014, yes? I've since then found that the coda is in fact more difficult than I had thought. I just didn't think I needed to make a separate thread in relation to the first. And I believe I mentioned in a different thread that I found the Ballade to be much harder than I previously thought?
I'm sorry if I got defensive. I've had a lot of things going on and I've tried not to let it influence how I treat others but if it did I apologize. But, the statements I made most prominently were "my recording situation is nada for the rest of 2014", among others. YES, the ballade is hard. Yes, when I get my recording situation set up (right now, just depending on video, since you all want video proof) I'll be recording the coda.
The two recordings were actually tests of setups I was working on; one with a cheap $20 camera with no external audio, and the second (the Chopin mazurka) with my iPhone.
Also, if you think ^ is defensive, I don't know what wouldn't be defensive honestly.
You're right, I'm not working on all of them right now. I'm working on one of each set basically. Doing the Chopin ballade, 2nd movement of the Mozart, and the first two inventions of the Bach
And, the Nie Dam Sie is a quote from Rubinstein.


Yes, I agree, Rach 4 is underrated, and I like it more than the third (sorry, I just said I don't like the concerto everyone worships  ). I'd love to hear it more often!

[chopinlover01]

What you don't like=/= meaning its a bad composition. I think you need to understand that.

I thought about this a long time.
With this in mind, what makes a composition a "bad" composition, other than that you don't like it? Thal hates Schumann and says his compositions are crap (and I respect the opinion). But what is his basis/reasoning aside from that they are boring? Is any compositional structure superior to one another?
Would love to hear your thoughts.