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Money Making Music Teachers (Read 8137 times)

Offline jason_sioco

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Money Making Music Teachers
« on: April 04, 2015, 03:48:34 PM »
I have been with music teachers, who don't want to teach you what they really know. These teachers are no doubt skilled musicians, but they keep what they know a secret. They teach unnecessary music superfluous, that you won't use in a real musical environment and it stays that way, so that you remain a student with them and they get your money. >:(

I had high expectations of taking music lessons, thinking that it will at least make me a semi-professional musician, only to be upset at the results after spending months with them.

Fortunately I quit and I have been purchasing dvds and books and they are more helpful than actual lessons. Then I found a music teacher on the internet, living in our area. The music teacher is expensive, but she teaches jazz piano and something I always want to learn. Hopefully she is not a music teacher that don't teach me weird stuff that are unnecessary but I will actually learn quintessential jazz piano concepts that is useful.

Offline anamnesis

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #1 on: April 04, 2015, 04:46:19 PM »
I have been with music teachers, who don't want to teach you what they really know. These teachers are no doubt skilled musicians, but they keep what they know a secret. They teach unnecessary music superfluous, that you won't use in a real musical environment and it stays that way, so that you remain a student with them and they get your money. >:(

I had high expectations of taking music lessons, thinking that it will at least make me a semi-professional musician, only to be upset at the results after spending months with them.

Fortunately I quit and I have been purchasing dvds and books and they are more helpful than actual lessons. Then I found a music teacher on the internet, living in our area. The music teacher is expensive, but she teaches jazz piano and something I always want to learn. Hopefully she is not a music teacher that don't teach me weird stuff that are unnecessary but I will actually learn quintessential jazz piano concepts that is useful.

What were they teaching that was unnecessary?

Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #2 on: April 04, 2015, 04:57:29 PM »
For example, in my drum lessons (I want to play drums), I told the teacher that I was a beginner at drums. Then he started manipulating me. He spent many months teaching me drum beats that are random and meaningless. My drum playing can be heard in the receptionist's area where people are waiting and it is so embarrassing.

I didn't explain any piano, because I explained it in a different thread, which can still be found on this piano street website. It just so happens I also play drums.

Offline keypeg

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #3 on: April 05, 2015, 04:16:03 AM »
I think you are mixing up a number of things.  Teaching music is not about teaching pieces that you like, but teaching skills that you need.  You seem to be focused on the product, not the process.  The drum teacher may well have been giving you the underlying foundations rather than doing whatever pleases you in a cynical manner of getting your money.  If the amount of time that you have spent with any teacher has never been more than a few months, you may not yet have the experience to be able to tell. 

Offline keypeg

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #4 on: April 05, 2015, 04:18:29 AM »
double post

Offline quantum

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #5 on: April 05, 2015, 06:32:17 AM »
A majority of the value of studying with a teacher comes from learning things you didn't know you needed to know.  Things already on your to learn list you can start teaching yourself, while seeking refinement on them from your teacher. 

You don't go from learning how to add to learning calculus in a single step.  Similarly, don't expect instantaneous results in music.  You need to learn your foundations.  Even if they were to teach you their "secrets" much of it will just go over your head because you would not have the necessary prerequisite knowledge to understand those "secret" topics. 
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #6 on: April 05, 2015, 03:37:23 PM »
My younger sister also plays drums. In that music store there are two main drum teachers Greg and Kevin. My sister's drum teacher is Kevin, while mine is Greg. We were learning at the same pace and the same amount of time. 6 Months later there was a noticeable difference in my sister's playing. She is playing drum beats that I have always dreamed of, while I was still playing random drum beats that you don't use in a real musical environment.

In the end, my sister became a legit drummer, while I never touched the drum set ever since I stopped taking lessons.

My teacher never talks about foundation or why the drum beats are useful. Unfortunately, I landed on a bad teacher. The only good thing about my drum teacher is that he introduced me to a band called Cryptopsy and they became one of my favorite bands.

My only hope for me is that if I purchase the Cobus Method. The author teaches you to make your own unique drum beats.

Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #7 on: April 05, 2015, 04:58:17 PM »
I'm a beginner at drums, but piano is a different animal. When it comes to piano, I can play at least Grade 6 level. I can play almost anything just by practice. I don't need the basics anymore. I just have some knowledge gaps that needs to be filled, but I am always with secretive music teachers. They don't want to teach you what they really know.

Offline anamnesis

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #8 on: April 05, 2015, 05:25:37 PM »
I'm a beginner at drums, but piano is a different animal. When it comes to piano, I can play at least Grade 6 level. I can play almost anything just by practice. I don't need the basics anymore. I just have some knowledge gaps that needs to be filled, but I am always with secretive music teachers. They don't want to teach you what they really know.

Most teachers are not going to show you what they really know, until you can utterly prove that you've mastered the basics with no doubt.

The composition teacher, Nadia Boulanger, made her students (most of whom were already prodigies or professionals who've already had prevoius harmony and composition instruction) go back to the absolute basics and utterly master them.  

For example, she wrote out a series of basic cadences that she wrote out that follow good voice-leading principles.  

http://www.patphil.com/nadiacadence.pdf

Students had to have them memorized in every key of course.  But then they also had to be able to perform them with any voice omitted on the keyboard, singing it themselves in fixed-do solfege.  Even that wasn't enough, they had to be able to do it hands crossed, playing the parts of the opposite hand.  

David Conte on Nadia Boulanger:
=38

http://www.davidconte.net/Boulanger.pdf


Offline Petter

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #9 on: April 05, 2015, 06:13:29 PM »
wax on, wax off...
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Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #10 on: April 07, 2015, 12:52:02 AM »
Most teachers are not going to show you what they really know, until you can utterly prove that you've mastered the basics with no doubt.


I already mastered the basics...what's your point? My case is different. I'm still like an amateur, who plays basic chords and I need someone to teach me how to spice that up so I can play like a professional.

There is actually a DVD I found in a website called Musicademy that teaches you Worship keyboard. Even though the style is geared towards playing in the style of music in the church; I can get started from there.


Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #11 on: April 07, 2015, 01:49:43 AM »
I've taught several highly academic people in the past who are this way. They want their own results and feel belittled if I make them study important basic skills. Some refuse to study piece i set them and do their own pieces predominantly. I think some do not understand why they can't think their way through piano music and how can this piano teacher be more intelligent at thinking piano than me!

I have given "secrets" away to these impatient students only for them to of course not understand it or bother to take it serious enough to apply, as keypeg suggested already it goes over their heads. I give them secrets in how to improve but they won't believe it. If you think you know how to self learn better then don't study with a teacher. Go learn as much as you can on your own. Always ask your teacher questions don't keep your frustrations inside, personally I lve the tension and challenge to change their opinions, it doesn't always work but those that are too stubborn I am happy for them to search for their own way, who says there is only one path! Tonns of teachers out there, go on a teacher smorgasbord.
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Offline quantum

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #12 on: April 07, 2015, 07:56:25 AM »
What people on here are trying to explain is that your teacher is likely not letting you in on these "secrets" because he/she feels your current skill level would not support such knowledge.  If you were indeed taught these "secrets" there may be sufficient gaps in your knowledge that, in your teacher's opinion, you would not be able to execute the task or grasp the concept.  

Feel free to shop around for other teachers if you feel the current one is not beneficial to your learning style.  

At the end of the day the student is in part responsible for their own learning.  Studying with the best teachers will not automatically make you a good musician.  Thinking about what your are taught and applying knowledge will go a long way.  
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline j_menz

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #13 on: April 07, 2015, 10:51:21 AM »
What people on here are trying to explain is that your teacher is likely not letting you in on these "secrets" because he/she feels your current skill level would not support such knowledge.

Indeed. Though it's not really much of a secret, being a good (or even a tolerable) drummer requires a good sense of rhythm. Perhaps you might consider whether that is actually the case. Without it, nothing more is going to help.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #14 on: April 07, 2015, 05:03:29 PM »
I've taught several highly academic people in the past who are this way. They want their own results and feel belittled if I make them study important basic skills. Some refuse to study piece i set them and do their own pieces predominantly. I think some do not understand why they can't think their way through piano music and how can this piano teacher be more intelligent at thinking piano than me!

I have given "secrets" away to these impatient students only for them to of course not understand it or bother to take it serious enough to apply, as keypeg suggested already it goes over their heads. I give them secrets in how to improve but they won't believe it. If you think you know how to self learn better then don't study with a teacher. Go learn as much as you can on your own. Always ask your teacher questions don't keep your frustrations inside, personally I lve the tension and challenge to change their opinions, it doesn't always work but those that are too stubborn I am happy for them to search for their own way, who says there is only one path! Tonns of teachers out there, go on a teacher smorgasbord.

If I'm impatient, then why did I hang out with this teacher for 8 months? Each week I was waiting for him to teach me stuff that you can at least use in a real musical environment. Never happened. He is sticking with his format of meaningless drum beats and I made a conclusion that it is going to stay that way for a looooong time. Probably never.

My sister and I were learning at the same pace with different drum teachers and now my sister is a legit drummer, while I never touched the drum set ever since.

In the case of my drum teacher, he doesn't want to teach me the essential drum beats so I can stay with him longer and he'll end up taking all my money.

Offline outin

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #15 on: April 07, 2015, 05:21:49 PM »

My sister and I were learning at the same pace with different drum teachers and now my sister is a legit drummer, while I never touched the drum set ever since.


Have you considered these options in addition to just having a worse teacher:
- You sister has a better attitude towards being taught and so got out much more out of her lessons
- You sister just happens to be a faster leaner and/or have more natural talent

I'm going to say what I think, harsh or not: Your posts give the impression of someone who is stuck on blaming his environment for his own shortcomings... Complaining won't get you far and that's what you seem to concentrate on...

Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #16 on: April 07, 2015, 05:23:37 PM »
What people on here are trying to explain is that your teacher is likely not letting you in on these "secrets" because he/she feels your current skill level would not support such knowledge.  If you were indeed taught these "secrets" there may be sufficient gaps in your knowledge that, in your teacher's opinion, you would not be able to execute the task or grasp the concept.  

Feel free to shop around for other teachers if you feel the current one is not beneficial to your learning style.  

At the end of the day the student is in part responsible for their own learning.  Studying with the best teachers will not automatically make you a good musician.  Thinking about what your are taught and applying knowledge will go a long way.  


I didn't mention this yet, but I started playing piano at the age of 20. What was I doing before? I played saxophone at the age of 14 and guitar at the age of 15. I was born in April 29, 1988. Go figure my age. I had a bad guitar teacher in high school, but that's another big story.

I took a keyboard course in college and just wanted to play keyboard. The teacher of the keyboard course wanted me to play piano and she became my first piano teacher. I like my first piano teacher. During that time, I played piano really well and she taught me the basics: scales, triads, seventh chords, arpeggios really well. She taught me to sight read Classical pieces.

Unfortunately, the piano teacher left the college as with my theory teacher and the next piano teachers I had, some were okay and some were bad, but no one can replace my first piano teacher.

During this time, the teachers forced me to do RCM exams and I hated it and I hated to practice, but I have to. I promised to myself that once I am done with RCM, I will never do it again and I will switch to jazz piano.

I did and I ended up with a bad jazz piano teacher at York University.

The options I can do is that I'll either return to my first piano teacher or give that piano teacher I found on the internet a try. The teacher I found on the internet teaches jazz piano.

Which is the best option for me?

Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #17 on: April 07, 2015, 05:45:47 PM »
Have you considered these options in addition to just having a worse teacher:
- You sister has a better attitude towards being taught and so got out much more out of her lessons
- You sister just happens to be a faster leaner and/or have more natural talent

I'm going to say what I think, harsh or not: Your posts give the impression of someone who is stuck on blaming his environment for his own shortcomings... Complaining won't get you far and that's what you seem to concentrate on...

My sister and I were learning different drum beats. As the months progressed, I was still learning random and distasteful drum beats, while my sister was already chiming in with legit drum beats applied in actual songs.

It's true I'm a slow learner. I learn differently. Must have something to do with my autism. I have Asperger's Syndrome. In my life, there were teachers that were very strict and they know how to teach me and the teacher and I clicked.

I have been a musician for more than a decade (since 2003) and I'm not really master. My practice material sucks. It also has a lot to do with a lack of guidance and direction. >:(

Aside from a few good ones, majority of my music teachers are bad at teaching.

The only time I enjoyed my music practice was actually just this year 2015. Since I had no lessons right now, I have been playing by ear. I purchased a software program that allows you to slow down the music, without affecting the nuance and pitch. You can isolate and loop any section and many more. It was just this year I started playing music that I really want. I hated RCM pieces for some reason I hated it, but now I am practicing music by Beethoven, Ravel and Debussy and they are my favourite pieces and I am more motivated to practice.

Playing by ear and playing music that I always like is very liberating and more expressive than doing formal lessons with a music teacher. Forgot to mention, I am also transcribing drum beats by isolating the EQ and slowing the music down so I can hear the drums better.

The only trouble I have now are figuring out the chord voicings. Their are chord voicings I am trying to figure out right now and so far no luck. I may need a teacher for that. ;D

Offline outin

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #18 on: April 08, 2015, 03:55:57 AM »


It's true I'm a slow learner. I learn differently. Must have something to do with my autism. I have Asperger's Syndrome. In my life, there were teachers that were very strict and they know how to teach me and the teacher and I clicked.


I think that explains most of your issues and it also explains why you haven't expressed your concerns very well and seem to have gotten stuck with some ridiculous conspiracy theory. One-to-one teaching is quite challenging with someone who has Asperger's. So instead of assuming that most teacher's are bad, just understand that YOU need a special kind of teacher and those are quite rare unfortunately.

I also have some learning difficulties and a challenging personality. I have had two teachers as an adult. The first one was not a good mach due to him having lower standards than what I have myself. Even with the second one I have had rough times and questioned her approach quite a bit in the first year or two, but instead of jumping into the conclusion that she's a bad teacher I have bitten the bullet and sticked with her. The odds of finding someone perfect for ME in every way are really quite low where I am. She's a wonderful pianists, have really high standards and understands music. She also is very persistent and patient, and doesn't let me manipulate her. While I did learn things gradually, only after 2 years I really started seeing the kind of results I expected. We still have rough lessons every now and then. And there's still a long way to become the kind of a player I would like to be. While I have to do a lot of study on my own, her input has been extremely valuable to me.

So 8 months really isn't long when one faces special challenges. You just cannot assume that someone can teach you everything he can do just like that, even if they wanted to. Teaching is interaction and much of falls on the student as well. I understand that it is difficult for you, but if you ever want it to work, you should try to learn to be more patient and accept that you not only need to learn how to play but also how to be a student with whatever teacher you have. 

Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #19 on: April 08, 2015, 09:55:03 PM »
The latest move I did today was dropping my jazz piano course. I will never take another jazz piano course in York University.

I heard one of my classmates at York got accepted at Humber College. He is a bit foul mouthed, as with most of my classmates, by saying, "F**k this school, I'm going to Humber next year!"

My plan is to stay one more year at York. Apparently, I haven't taken the candy courses yet. If my second year stays the same, Mind as well considering Humber College.

Here in Canada, Humber College is like the Berklee College of Music in America.

What I learned is that University is theory based, while college is hands-on. I need that hands-on environment. I am motivated and dedicated to practice. I am willing to wake up early at dawn just to practice.

I was in a college before. Yes it was hands on, but it only covered the basics and the courses are mostly an introduction. It didn't really meet my musical needs.

Offline quantum

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #20 on: April 09, 2015, 08:08:41 AM »
I have been a musician for more than a decade (since 2003) and I'm not really master. My practice material sucks. It also has a lot to do with a lack of guidance and direction. >:(

You claim your path of learning music lacks guidance and direction.  Yet you seem to be dissatisfied with the guidance from current teachers.  Why did you drop your jazz piano course near the end of term?


What exactly are you taking in university?  Are you in the music program or are you just taking music courses?

Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #21 on: April 09, 2015, 03:42:02 PM »
You claim your path of learning music lacks guidance and direction.  Yet you seem to be dissatisfied with the guidance from current teachers.  Why did you drop your jazz piano course near the end of term?


What exactly are you taking in university?  Are you in the music program or are you just taking music courses?


I have purchased a DVD about ear training and I felt that the teachers in the video were guiding me and I was able to understand why they were teaching me their concepts. Didn't feel that to most of my music teachers.

I dropped my jazz piano course, because I first took the course with high expectations and my expectations were never met. Right now I am still upset.

I'm taking the Bachelor of Fine Arts in Music at York University. I am in the music program. There are signs that it is just a so and so music program. Not really great. During my auditions, I played a lot of mistakes, I abruptly stopped, and repeated the parts where I went wrong. I did well on other areas on ear training, and theory, and I made a good essay on the entrance evaluation, my GPA was high enough, but I played terrible on my audition, I should not be accepted. They somehow accepted me!

Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #22 on: April 10, 2015, 03:39:54 PM »
I recently got money from the government. I think it has something to do with my disability, I have Asperger's Syndrome and no job. I was able to get $73.15 and I took advantage of it and purchased two music books and a book about drawing on the right side of the brain.

Forgot to mention, I also took art classes and I didn't learn anything. The students in the class are mostly already expert at drawing and the teachers just ride on with the capability of most students. A disadvantage for me, who is a beginner at drawing. The only positive thing about those art classes is that since everyone is already good at drawing that really pushed me to draw, because I don't want to appear demented and inferior, plus I was sitting beside beautiful and young girls in those classes, that pushed me and I became decent at drawing. I was slow, but I was drawing okay.

I seem to have a good grasp, when the instruction is placed on a book or a dvd, because you can re-read and rewind it again. Most of the time I learn it once and I understand, but I have been with piano teachers, who explains a concept in the most weird way. For example, dynamics. I didn't play the dynamics very well and the teacher could just explain that the problem was the dynamics. Those teachers end up explaining all kinds of poetic allegories and fantasy stories to explain that I had a problem with dynamics. :D

Why not just explain the correction in a simple way?

Offline slane

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #23 on: April 11, 2015, 09:26:08 AM »
Is it possible that your Aspergers is preventing you not only from  understanding your teacher's instructions, but also the implications of that instruction? They may think that they've made it quite clear that you are not the standard you think you are while you need it to be told to you quite explicitly. That sort of communication is very painful, so people usually try to convey it obliquely, which wont work when Aspergers is involved.

When I started with my lovely teacher, he very gently steered me towards pieces easier than the ones I was attempting. He didn't say anything explicitly, but I understood the message. :) You might have thought he was keeping the secret of how to play those harder pieces from you.
Eventually, with his careful guidance I reached the point I thought I had been all along and now I can steer my own way through the repertoire.

Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #24 on: April 11, 2015, 04:52:22 PM »
Is it possible that your Aspergers is preventing you not only from  understanding your teacher's instructions, but also the implications of that instruction? They may think that they've made it quite clear that you are not the standard you think you are while you need it to be told to you quite explicitly. That sort of communication is very painful, so people usually try to convey it obliquely, which wont work when Aspergers is involved.

When I started with my lovely teacher, he very gently steered me towards pieces easier than the ones I was attempting. He didn't say anything explicitly, but I understood the message. :) You might have thought he was keeping the secret of how to play those harder pieces from you.
Eventually, with his careful guidance I reached the point I thought I had been all along and now I can steer my own way through the repertoire.


I don't think the teacher is the problem. I have been with teachers, who are good instructors and I completely understand the gist of the lesson. Because of circumstances, my current situation, I am not able to have lessons with them again.

I recently talked to my first piano teacher on the phone of having lessons with her again, she's available, the only problem is that she doesn't teach jazz piano. She was a good instructor, and I had lessons with her 5 years ago, but the landscape of my life changed since then.

I think the content of the practice material is the problem. They are not worth practicing to. They are just fillers so that I will stay with them each week, until they invested a lot of money in me. Most of my music teachers are not interested in teaching me. All they see in me is green, what I mean by that is money.

I was quick to realize that they "ain't" teaching me real musical content that you are  going to use in a real musical environment, I end up cancelling the lessons, and started to play by ear.

Offline dcstudio

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #25 on: April 11, 2015, 05:15:20 PM »
I think that maybe you have just discovered that the bulk of material for practicing jazz is garbage.  You can't really practice something that is meant to emerge spontaneously during a performance. You cannot learn to do this the same way you learned to play classical piano.   To study a score and play it exactly as someone else did--is against the whole idea of jazz...that's why it's so hard to teach.   How do you teach someone to be creative?  especially when that person has been taught that the only music worth playing was written by the likes of Beethoven.   It's a lot to overcome.

Offline anamnesis

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #26 on: April 11, 2015, 09:00:48 PM »
I think that maybe you have just discovered that the bulk of material for practicing jazz is garbage.  You can't really practice something that is meant to emerge spontaneously during a performance. You cannot learn to do this the same way you learned to play classical piano.   To study a score and play it exactly as someone else did--is against the whole idea of jazz...that's why it's so hard to teach. p  How do you teach someone to be creative?  especially when that person has been taught that the only music worth playing was written by the likes of Beethoven.   It's a lot to overcome.

I don't think that's completely true about classical piano.  It just depends on how it is taught, and then how it is studied by the student.    

Barry Harris


I posted it earlier on this thread, but listen to David Conte's point on memorizing music as well towards the end of this video on his comments about studying with Boulanger:
=38

You are only as good as the music you internalize, whether it be from a jazz recording or classical score; however, you need to approach both with the same level of intensity and understanding in order to reap the benefits of both.

Interestingly, Harris happens to still study with a classical pianist (Sophia Rosoff) whose teaching lineage (Abby Whiteside) is probably the most closely alignment between classical piano and jazz.

Whiteside based her teaching methods (to help students learn what it takes to perform pieces at the level of the Chopin etudes) on watching not only successful classical perfomers, but jazz performers as well.   

Offline outin

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #27 on: April 12, 2015, 05:05:30 AM »
I don't play jazz but I used to sing it. I think there are two ways to handle such music: Either you learn enough theory to be able to use it and create an illusion of spontaneity or you are one of those people who can simply create on intuition (which I believe means you naturally understand the structures of music without necessarily knowing the concepts and having formally studied it). I doubt the latter is something that can be taught, but one can grow into it by exposure.

Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #28 on: April 13, 2015, 07:46:19 PM »
I don't play jazz but I used to sing it. I think there are two ways to handle such music: Either you learn enough theory to be able to use it and create an illusion of spontaneity or you are one of those people who can simply create on intuition (which I believe means you naturally understand the structures of music without necessarily knowing the concepts and having formally studied it). I doubt the latter is something that can be taught, but one can grow into it by exposure.

The musicians I asked with says that they rely on the "feel" of the music. Whatever feels right, they play. Some musicians I asked said that they just have to trust their intuition.

Personally, I am good at music theory, but theory is for babies. It is so easy. Once you play by ear, you don't need theory.

Offline outin

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #29 on: April 14, 2015, 03:10:24 AM »

Personally, I am good at music theory, but theory is for babies. It is so easy. Once you play by ear, you don't need theory.

::)

It's not about being "good at theory", it's about being able to apply it in the creative process.

Offline pianoplunker

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #30 on: April 14, 2015, 06:18:37 AM »

I had high expectations of taking music lessons, thinking that it will at least make me a semi-professional musician, only to be upset at the results after spending months with them.


Just curious, what is "semi-professional" ?  Where/what are you playing as a semi-professional ?
Or what do you think you should be playing where?

Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #31 on: April 16, 2015, 07:47:26 PM »
Just curious, what is "semi-professional" ?  Where/what are you playing as a semi-professional ?
Or what do you think you should be playing where?

lol I always go to this website, every time my sister is playing drums.

I think the term means close to playing in a professional level, but still learning.

I had my exams this week, not able to practice. :-X Don't worry tomorrow is my last day for exams.

Offline dcstudio

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #32 on: April 16, 2015, 10:51:19 PM »


playing at a professional level---I know plenty of professional musicians who suck.  I know many amateurs who don't.

a semi-professional level assumes that everyone who gets paid to play is at a higher level musically than those who don't get paid...  and that just isn't the case...I'm sorry to say.


I just dislike that term altogether...  and I'm one who does get paid.


Offline pianoplunker

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #33 on: April 17, 2015, 01:45:10 AM »

playing at a professional level---I know plenty of professional musicians who suck.  I know many amateurs who don't.

a semi-professional level assumes that everyone who gets paid to play is at a higher level musically than those who don't get paid...  and that just isn't the case...I'm sorry to say.


I just dislike that term altogether...  and I'm one who does get paid.



I have always regarded the term "professional" as someone who has studied enough to know all the fundamentals of the craft. And of course being able to get paid. I guess a semi-professional is someone who gets paid $100.00 and free drinks while technique sometimes flies out the window. Thus, our daily jog down Piano Street in search of answers, mostly in the student/teaching sections

Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #34 on: May 11, 2015, 10:34:48 PM »
For the past few weeks, I have been playing drums in the church. Not a big deal, I only know a few drum beats and some varied fills and I did not learn from my drum teacher, my pastor taught me, but that's not my point.

My sister, who is a way better drummer and knows more drum beats, is inactive in the church, while I am forced to play drums.

That type of imbalance is kind of like the music industry today. The jazz musicians are not getting enough cred and they do marvellous works, while Niki Minaj seems to be always no.2 on the top 40 Billboard all the time. I can't consider Niki Minaj's music to be music.

Anyways, if you have been keeping track of my drum story, My sister and I are in the same lesson centre. It's just that we have two different teachers. I get Greg, while my sister gets Kevin. Long Story short, my drum lessons with Greg didn't work out, while my sister's drum lessons with Kevin, she became a legit drummer. Well guess what, I will have lessons with Kevin, this coming June.

I will be like this, Jason: Hi Greg! (smiling)....(entering Kevin's room)
Greg: what?!

LOL 8)

Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #35 on: May 18, 2015, 05:00:20 PM »
I will be having my keyboard lessons this Friday. My teacher is actually the pastor in my church. He specializes more in guitar and bass guitar, but I want to learn keyboard from him. He was my guitar teacher before I knew that he was a pastor. It's a long story, but my mom and dad end up going to his church.

He is a brilliant keyboardist by the way, my experience with how he teaches is that he teaches the real thing. How he plays keyboard, he'll transfer it to me.

Offline michael_sayers

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #36 on: May 19, 2015, 07:52:23 AM »
I have been with music teachers, who don't want to teach you what they really know. These teachers are no doubt skilled musicians, but they keep what they know a secret. They teach unnecessary music superfluous, that you won't use in a real musical environment and it stays that way, so that you remain a student with them and they get your money. >:(

Hi jason_sioco,

I don't personally know any music teachers who do that.

Maybe the best ideal long term goal of teaching is to equip the student to be his or her own teacher.


Mvh,
Michael

Offline yadeehoo

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #37 on: May 26, 2015, 10:42:41 AM »
My only hope for me is that if I purchase the Cobus Method. The author teaches you to make your own unique drum beats.

Him approach to drumming and music in general is just wrong. I had to deal with him personally, I'd rather get to know the gospel drummer from Milwaukee Drummers or something like that.
Horowitz - Danse Macabre / Carmen variatons
Chopin - Polonaise in A flat Major + Etudes
Liszt - Liebestraum #3
Beethoven - Moonlight 3rd movement

WORK IN PROGRESS

Offline yadeehoo

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #38 on: May 26, 2015, 10:45:49 AM »
What people on here are trying to explain is that your teacher is likely not letting you in on these "secrets" because he/she feels your current skill level would not support such knowledge.  If you were indeed taught these "secrets" there may be sufficient gaps in your knowledge that, in your teacher's opinion, you would not be able to execute the task or grasp the concept.  

Yeah Luke, if you wanna learn the Force, you've got be patient.

Make sure tho that your teacher is a real Yoda him/herself first
Horowitz - Danse Macabre / Carmen variatons
Chopin - Polonaise in A flat Major + Etudes
Liszt - Liebestraum #3
Beethoven - Moonlight 3rd movement

WORK IN PROGRESS

Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #39 on: June 02, 2015, 02:00:49 AM »
I just finished my drum lessons tonight with Kevin. I can say he is a really good teacher. I told him my goals and he said it takes a long time to reach, but that's not my point. He is very good at teaching how to hold a drum stick. My previous drum teacher Greg, I was still confused on how to hold a drum stick. A sign of a good drum teacher is that they know how to teach holding the drum stick. He also taught me to use my wrists while playing the drums. My sticks have to form a triangle. I never learned these things before with my previous drum teacher. Kevin will also teach me to improvise on the drums.

I don't need to buy the Cobus Method. I finally found a really good drum teacher.

Ill keep you guys updated on my progress.

The significance of this lesson is that, this drum teacher of mine now is actually the drum teacher of my sister. My drum lessons at that time was with Greg. My sister and I were learning at the same pace. About 8 months later, my sister was already a legit drummer, while I was still at the bottom of the musical food chain in drumming. What a turnaround of events.

Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #40 on: June 09, 2015, 07:36:37 PM »
It's another week of drum lessons. What I like to share today is that Kevin is teaching the same concepts as my former drum teacher Greg, but Kevin is a much better instructor that I grasp his concepts and instructions much better. What a difference does a different instructor makes.

On the other hand, I'll try to make this as short as possible. Back in 2014, when I was a brand new drum student; there is a drum student before me from 7:30pm till 8:00. Greg is teaching this student every Monday. This was back in May 2014 and every last 10 minutes of the lesson, they would play some saxophone song with drum beats in it and the drum student would play. Flash forward in June 2015, My timeslot with Kevin is also 8:00 every Monday, and coincidentally the student at 7:30 still has the same timeslot and every last 10 minutes of the lesson, they would play the same exact song until now.

Greg is a horrible teacher, the student doesn't know he is wasting his money.

Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #41 on: June 18, 2015, 10:14:24 AM »
This week I learned about playing the ride cymbal. There's more to playing the ride cymbal. My new drum teacher is a good instructor. Now I know how to hold a drum stick.

Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #42 on: June 25, 2015, 11:10:10 PM »
This week, I learned about 4-bar musical phrases. He asks me to play the crash cymbal on the first beat of a 4-bar musical phrase.

Offline jason_sioco

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #43 on: July 17, 2015, 12:22:26 AM »
I'm finally learning drum fills. My previous drum teacher, Greg, didn't teach me a single drum fill. I only stayed with my current drum teacher, Kevin, for only a couple of months and I am already learning drum fills.

Our lessons are based on a book that he wrote. Their are chapters, where it is dedicated to drum fills.

No wonder my sister is a good drummer now. 

Offline pytheamateur

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #44 on: July 17, 2015, 12:55:50 AM »
When it comes to piano, I can play at least Grade 6 level. I can play almost anything just by practice. I don't need the basics anymore.
If this is what you think, then you should know that there are prizewinners at major international competitions who still struggle as a concert pianist.  This should give you s sense of perspective and make you think twice before ctiticising your teacher.
Beethoven - Sonata in C sharp minor, Op 27 No 12
Chopin - Fantasie Impromptu, Nocturn in C sharp minor, Op post
Brahms - Op 118, Nos 2 & 3

Offline picasso18

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #45 on: July 20, 2015, 05:32:31 PM »
Me and some of my friends used this site to find our piano teachers, and we thought it was really good.
http://www.cocoweb.com/piano-teachers-directory

Offline louispodesta

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #46 on: July 30, 2015, 11:09:44 PM »
I have been with music teachers, who don't want to teach you what they really know. These teachers are no doubt skilled musicians, but they keep what they know a secret. They teach unnecessary music superfluous, that you won't use in a real musical environment and it stays that way, so that you remain a student with them and they get your money. >:(

I had high expectations of taking music lessons, thinking that it will at least make me a semi-professional musician, only to be upset at the results after spending months with them.

Fortunately I quit and I have been purchasing dvds and books and they are more helpful than actual lessons. Then I found a music teacher on the internet, living in our area. The music teacher is expensive, but she teaches jazz piano and something I always want to learn. Hopefully she is not a music teacher that don't teach me weird stuff that are unnecessary but I will actually learn quintessential jazz piano concepts that is useful.
This, I could not pass up and rest of you know why.

My coach is Dr. Thomas Mark, author of "What Every Pianist Needs To Know About the Body," and also "Motion, Emotion, and Love:  The Nature Of Artistic Performance."

The way ended up with what I consider to be the top piano technique teacher in the world, is that I got unceremoniously dumped by my coach, who was voted the top teacher of young students in the entire State of Texas.  And, on his website, he touts that one of his expertise's is teaching other teachers how to teach.

In the end, what he did with me (a very old trick) is that he had me playing the same piece over and over again, hoping I would get tired, disgusted, frustrated, and then quit.  When, I did not, he dumped me.

And, for the record, with Thomas Mark, I had and have never dreamed that I would be playing solo and concerto repertoire at the level I am now. 

And, when you view the following link, you will notice that on August the 2nd, I turn 64 years old, which means that this definitely ain't my first rodeo.


In my opinion, the OP's assessment of his teacher is spot on!




Offline schumaniac

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #47 on: August 16, 2015, 08:51:03 PM »
If this is what you think, then you should know that there are prizewinners at major international competitions who still struggle as a concert pianist.  This should give you s sense of perspective and make you think twice before ctiticising your teacher.
It also depends on your own goal as a musician though. Of course, what you are saying is right... but for OP, being able to play what he wants passably is probably very satisfying and fulfilling already.

Offline louispodesta

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #48 on: August 17, 2015, 11:30:34 PM »
It also depends on your own goal as a musician though. Of course, what you are saying is right... but for OP, being able to play what he wants passably is probably very satisfying and fulfilling already.
Re:  "Pytheamatuer:"

["If this is what you think, then you should know that there are prizewinners at major international competitions who still struggle as a concert pianist.  This should give you s sense of perspective and make you think twice before criticizing your teacher."]

I proffer the following:

1)  By inference, in so many words in my past posts, including my video
, that most piano teachers are liars and frauds.  And, this practice has been going on for hundreds of years, and that includes teachers by the name of Chopin, and Czrerny.

They took an enormous sum of peoples money, knowing full-well that the particular matriculant was an aristocrat non-serious student.  With Czerny, if you could not afford the fee, then he would not teach you.

With Chopin, it was 20 Francs a lesson (a single solid gold coin), which added up to a weekly sum of 700 Francs.  This was over ten times the average weekly laborers wage of 50 Francs.

2)  Regarding the original thesis of the OP, or those who beg to differ, please show me a non-Taubamn/Golandsky and Thomas Mark student, who has significant technical skills without the usual "My Teacher" drama?

And, for the record, Thomas Mark's pedagogical difference is that, unlike Taubman/Golandsky, one size doe s not fit all.

Offline dcstudio

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Re: Money Making Music Teachers
«Reply #49 on: August 18, 2015, 01:24:24 AM »

liars and frauds?

hmmmm....   and you are going to support this with more of your scientific ____?


frustrated pianists...  they are so angry.


teach a few lessons Louis ---  might do you good to see the other side of things.

your experience is completely one-sided and you have absolutely no idea what it is like to be a piano teacher...

how can you say it's wrong if you have never done it?   how can you profess to know best how to do something you have never done?


all your research is great but without practical experience...  you are only postulating.