Stressing the Importance of Fingering?

[Fastzuernst]

I was very surprised that the search option didn't pull up this topic so here I go!

I have been taught that it is important to find a good fingering and to stick to it. Recently, upon taking a student, I found that her previous teacher wouldn't allow her to write fingerings in or to specify fingerings at all. I found this incredibly irresponsible until I found out that her old teacher happened to be a great sight reader. (much better than myself!) Upon intervewing several different teachers I have found a mix of those who stress it and those who don"t.

Is being reliant on fingering a hinderance or a necessity?

If it is so important, why are so many scores without even simple suggested fingering?

Maybe after years of good fingering practice, one becomes able to finger correctly?

Should we be reliant on fingering as well as the notes on the page?

[bernhard]

Fingering is extremely important in the following sense: you should always use the same fingering in the same note.

The reason is very simple. If every time you play a piece you use a different fingering, your unconscious will have a choice to make. This choice will be on the way of flowing, unimpeded playing. Instead all sorts of inaccuracies, hesitations and stuttered playing will result. So not you only you must play the right notes at the right time, but to that you must add, with the right fingers. So as you can see, to me fingering is as important s the right notes (and the right time).

Fingering also implies movement: the best movement will always necessitate a particular fingering configuration. And perhaps most importantly, there is the matter of “preparation”, that is as you play a particular note, your whole playing apparatus should already be “prepared to play the next. You cannot have preparation if fingering is sloppy (that is, if every time you use a different fingering in the same note).

Some people can (usually after years of practice) simply use the correct fingering (for them) consistently without any though to the matter. Fingering has become unconscious, and if this person goes on to teach, typically they will not bother with fingering, and in fact cannot understand why the student cannot do the same. This might explain the case you mentioned.

Now we come to a most important question: What is the right fingering?

And the fact is, the right fingering will depend on the player and on the passage, so one cannot come up with the ultimate fingering. The pianist must find this out by himself. This is the main reason scores often do not have fingerings: They leave it open to the pianist to figure out his own best fingering. On the other hand, scores who do have fingering, should always be regarded as a starting point, a simple suggestion, and no one should ever be compelled to follow such fingerings.

There is one important exception to this rule. Sometimes in technical studies, a fingering is specified that must be followed simply because the aim of the study is to work on that particular fingering, even if some other fingering could be used with greater ease.

How is one to find out the best fingering, that is, what criteria should one follow?

I have discussed this at some length here:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2749.msg23873.html#msg23873
(reply #6)

And you may find this discussion on Chopin’s fingering for Etude Op. 10 no 9 relevant as well:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4957.msg47444.html#msg47444

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Mycroft]

I'm a beginner, but I would think it would depend on whether the piece you're talking about fingering is one that you're learning for repertoire or one you're working on for sight reading.  If repertoire, then as Bernhard said, using the same fingering every time it's played would be crucial.  But a completely different skill set is needed for sight reading pieces.

[Fastzuernst]

Fingering is extremely important in the following sense: you should always use the same fingering in the same note.

The reason is very simple. If every time you play a piece you use a different fingering, your unconscious will have a choice to make. This choice will be on the way of flowing, unimpeded playing. Instead all sorts of inaccuracies, hesitations and stuttered playing will result. So not you only you must play the right notes at the right time, but to that you must add, with the right fingers. So as you can see, to me fingering is as important s the right notes (and the right time).

Fingering also implies movement: the best movement will always necessitate a particular fingering configuration. And perhaps most importantly, there is the matter of “preparation”, that is as you play a particular note, your whole playing apparatus should already be “prepared to play the next. You cannot have preparation if fingering is sloppy (that is, if every time you use a different fingering in the same note).

Some people can (usually after years of practice) simply use the correct fingering (for them) consistently without any though to the matter. Fingering has become unconscious, and if this person goes on to teach, typically they will not bother with fingering, and in fact cannot understand why the student cannot do the same. This might explain the case you mentioned.

Now we come to a most important question: What is the right fingering?

And the fact is, the right fingering will depend on the player and on the passage, so one cannot come up with the ultimate fingering. The pianist must find this out by himself. This is the main reason scores often do not have fingerings: They leave it open to the pianist to figure out his own best fingering. On the other hand, scores who do have fingering, should always be regarded as a starting point, a simple suggestion, and no one should ever be compelled to follow such fingerings.

There is one important exception to this rule. Sometimes in technical studies, a fingering is specified that must be followed simply because the aim of the study is to work on that particular fingering, even if some other fingering could be used with greater ease.

How is one to find out the best fingering, that is, what criteria should one follow?

I have discussed this at some length here:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2749.msg23873.html#msg23873
(reply #6)

And you may find this discussion on Chopin’s fingering for Etude Op. 10 no 9 relevant as well:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4957.msg47444.html#msg47444

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Yes! Thats the exact kind of validation I needed!

I knew that fingering is extremely important, althougth I had to find out for myself.

It still doesn't explain why so many editions are without ANY fingering. Sure, we all have to find out what works for us, but suggested fingering it is usually fairly close. Maybe they are saving ink?
I guess for me, still a student of fingering, I appreciate the suggestions especially for a piece that I am not familiar with. I gives me an idea of the contour of the melody or keeps me from making stupid fingering decisions on the spot. Sure I've seen plenty that I change and then I ask myself WHY I need to change it. This then forces me to make immediate decisions about how I will learn a piece which keeps me from wasting time!

Thanks for the links also!

[mound]

It still doesn't explain why so many editions are without ANY fingering. Sure, we all have to find out what works for us, but suggested fingering it is usually fairly close. Maybe they are saving ink?

Or to save expense? I imagine the "fingering by" person gets paid for their work.

-Paul

[Brian Healey]

Bernhard makes a great point, as he always does. Years ago, when I asked my teacher about a certain fingering that was written into a piece of music (don't remember which one), she said something like, "most of the time I ignore the written fingerings," and proceeded to show me a fingering that automatically made the passage ten times easier. Because of that, and seeing as how she's an absolutely fabulous concert pianist, I took her advice to heart. The real key is knowing what fingering will be optimal for YOU, and as Bernhard said, stick with that fingering.

Although if I may play devil's advocate, your approach to fingering might be different if you're an improviser (jazz pianist or otherwise). Retaining fingerings for written passages would still be a good idea, but for actually improvising, you may have to do otherwise. In a worskhop I attended with the jazz legend Sir Roland Hanna, someone asked about how to practice licks and patterns. His reply, among other things, included, "always practice everything you do in all twelve keys, and with patterns never get used to one fingering. Practice different fingerings." His rationalization was that when you practice a pattern, it's completly isolated. You're not coming from or going to anywhere. While actually improvising, however, you might arrive at that pattern in the midst of an unrelated musical line. In that case, your reliance on a single fingering would likely be a hinderance, because where you're coming from might dictate a different fingering. Food for thought.

Peace,
Bri

[anda]

i totally agree with bernhard. i explain my younger students that using a different fingering each time you play is like trying to teach someone how to get from A to B by going each time a different way. myself, i have never written fingerings on my scores (because once i found my own best fingering, my hands remember), but for my students, we negotiate the best fingering for them for each passage while we read (they alays have to read any new work in class, in my presence), i write it on the score and then they have to stick to it.