Help with Chopin Ballade in A flat, measures 118 and 122

[chopinlover01]

It's with these really quick grace-arpeggio figures that appear before the first beat of each measure.
My hand is constantly just flopping. After some examination of the technique used by Josh Wright in his arpeggios, thinking of the hand as an accordion, it's helping a little bit, but not a lot.
Any thoughts?
Thanks in advanced.
Oh, and in case you're wondering, the fingering I'm using is put below

(1st arpeggio)

1  2   4  2 (etc)
C Eb Ab C (etc)

[j_menz]

I'd use 12312315 for both.

Substituting 4 for 3 may work better depending on your hand shape.

[chopinlover01]

I'd use 12312315 for both.

Substituting 4 for 3 may work better depending on your hand shape.

I actually tried that and found that my hand size doesn't agree very well with that- my 3-5 cross is horrific.
Or maybe that's what I'm doing wrong, is crossing.
I likely just answered my own question... Wow.

[chopinlover01]

I actually tried that and found that my hand size doesn't agree very well with that- my 3-5 cross is horrific.
Or maybe that's what I'm doing wrong, is crossing.
I likely just answered my own question... Wow.

Again, slightly improved, but not quite.
I'm finding that accuracy is more my issue than anything else.

[pianoplayer002]

The more impeccable your arpeggio technique in general is, the easier these arpeggios become. There is probably not one single quick fix, you'll just have to work slowly and patiently. Often the thumb and second finger are the problem.

Starting on C on the A-flat arpeggio, I play 1241241 5. To me, the 412 part of the sequence, where you shift your hand from one position to the next, is the most difficult, so I practised just that part in different ways.

[quantum]

For accuracy, practice the arpeggio as a series of solid chords using your chosen fingering for the arpeggio.  For example, in bar 118 if you use 1-2-4,1-2-4,1-5 then you would play the chord C-Eb-Ab move your hand laterally then again play C-Eb-Ab repeat the movement, then play C-C.  When you are playing the actual arpeggio keep in mind the position of your hand as you were playing the solid chords.


You may also want to read up on some Bernhard:
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=17310.msg185381#msg185381
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=6640.msg65595#msg65595

[chopinlover01]

Many thanks to everyone who gave input. I'll be working tomorrow on it (stupid finals), hopefully can make some progress.