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"Bad " key signatures for piano ? (Read 2315 times)

Offline falconpunnch

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"Bad " key signatures for piano ?
« on: June 13, 2015, 08:45:45 AM »
Hey guys, couple a days ago I played my new song to my teacher. She said it's good but the key wasn't right for the piano. She said i should transpose it half step up . The song was in E, so i played in it F and that was better for her? Does it make a difference ? Now i searched the internet and i found out that the piano friendly keys are F Bb Eb Ab , Dm Gm and Cm. And nearly all my songs i wrote in A E G D , Am Em and Bm. Is it true that some keys are bad like A D and E?

Offline michael_sayers

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Re: "Bad " key signatures for piano ?
«Reply #1 on: June 13, 2015, 09:19:42 AM »
If those keys are bad for piano music then why to so many great composers use them for piano music?  This is a very strange notion.


Mvh,
Michael

Offline falconpunnch

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Re: "Bad " key signatures for piano ?
«Reply #2 on: June 13, 2015, 09:48:21 AM »
Yeah that's what I thought. Maybe it's just my teacher's preference rather than everybody's (like a favorite color) . Or she's weird haha.

Offline outin

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Re: "Bad " key signatures for piano ?
«Reply #3 on: June 13, 2015, 10:28:44 AM »
Now i searched the internet and i found out that the piano friendly keys are F Bb Eb Ab , Dm Gm and Cm. And nearly all my songs i wrote in A E G D , Am Em and Bm. Is it true that some keys are bad like A D and E?

Maybe they are friendly to piano, but not necessary the pianist...F major is one of the most uncomfortable keys for me and don't like Gm or Cm either...A D and E are fine  ::)

Offline stevensk

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Re: "Bad " key signatures for piano ?
«Reply #4 on: June 13, 2015, 10:54:43 AM »


There are no bad keys signatures for piano. There are only bad pianists

Offline cbreemer

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Re: "Bad " key signatures for piano ?
«Reply #5 on: June 22, 2015, 06:23:31 PM »
What a very strange thing for a teacher to say. I'd seriously contemplate another one.

Offline chopinlover01

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Re: "Bad " key signatures for piano ?
«Reply #6 on: June 22, 2015, 07:32:57 PM »
Hey guys, couple a days ago I played my new song to my teacher. She said it's good but the key wasn't right for the piano. She said i should transpose it half step up . The song was in E, so i played in it F and that was better for her? Does it make a difference ? Now i searched the internet and i found out that the piano friendly keys are F Bb Eb Ab , Dm Gm and Cm. And nearly all my songs i wrote in A E G D , Am Em and Bm. Is it true that some keys are bad like A D and E?
Perhaps it was a transcription of some piece originally not for piano, but it was not it it's original key?
I'd wait for the rest of the story before denouncing the teacher.
As for "piano friendly" keys, it varies with each pianist. D flat major, B major, and F minor all work with my hands because they have black notes placed conveniently for my hands- but keys like c or g major where there's little to pivot off of are killers (see Chopin's G major nocturne- it doesn't fit well under my hand for this very reason).
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Offline mjames

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Re: "Bad " key signatures for piano ?
«Reply #7 on: June 22, 2015, 07:33:56 PM »
My fingers are long (long enough, not supe/oddly long) but skinny, my hands are very small/petite, so maybe that's why I never understood the whole "this key is hard to play in" concept. Every single feels just as right as the next. I mean, there are certain keys that are more comfortable to play than others (B major, gflat, Bflatminor), but they're all good to me. F major, c major, or w/e. They all feel good. Guess I was fortunate enough to never encounter this issue. :D

Offline amytsuda

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Re: "Bad " key signatures for piano ?
«Reply #8 on: June 23, 2015, 07:04:26 AM »
I found this Wiki article that says E-Major is very difficult for winds instruments.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_major

So that may explain why less pieces are written in E major, as composers are still thinking orchestral while composing for piano. But I don't see any issue with E major for piano. Chopin Op 10 No 3, Chopin Op 62 No 2, Beethoven Op 109 are examples of E major, and all of them got this special cantabile quality and they don't feel any different for fingers.

Offline ted

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Re: "Bad " key signatures for piano ?
«Reply #9 on: June 23, 2015, 10:37:11 AM »
This question comes up once every few months; I agree with the ones who say it doesn't matter. Firstly I cannot tell the difference by the sound and secondly I have always practised as many different grips and positions as possible for technique. This is just as well for me because key centres come and go very quickly during improvisation, if indeed they occur at all. I can understand though that it is easy for a player to develop habitual likings for certain grips and positions over time, but these are only "bad" if the musical results become tedious and hackneyed rather than positively individual. To assert that a key or position is "bad" for the instrument itself, not the player, therefore makes little sense to me.
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Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: "Bad " key signatures for piano ?
«Reply #10 on: June 23, 2015, 02:38:05 PM »
Hey guys, couple a days ago I played my new song to my teacher. She said it's good but the key wasn't right for the piano. She said i should transpose it half step up . The song was in E, so i played in it F and that was better for her? Does it make a difference ? Now i searched the internet and i found out that the piano friendly keys are F Bb Eb Ab , Dm Gm and Cm. And nearly all my songs i wrote in A E G D , Am Em and Bm. Is it true that some keys are bad like A D and E?

No. Since the piano is equal-tempered, I don't think it would make the slightest difference.

Offline kevonthegreatpianist

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Re: "Bad " key signatures for piano ?
«Reply #11 on: June 24, 2015, 05:00:20 AM »

There are no bad keys signatures for piano. There are only bad pianists

Technically, there are no bad pianists either. There are pianists that are struggling to play piano. There are pianists who have a lack of taste in their music. There are pianists who struggle playing fast notes. But there are no bad pianists. "Bad" is a big word. "Bad" kinda means that they don't deserve to be pianists, much less than being a famous, talented, and gifted one. "Bad" means that they shouldn't be pianists. I just wanted you, stevensk, to know that calling someone "bad" is a very big insult. 

Anyways, back to the question. I don't know why it matters is some keys are piano friendly and some aren't. To me, all of them are the same. I like some keys better because IMO, they make a more beautiful melody, and for some keys, you can easily make a ragemode song for example. Take, for instance, c minor. IMO, you can make a sad yet beautiful melody, and you could also make a angry and raging piece. I agree that Beethoven thinks c minor is the stormiest and most violent key.
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Offline chopinlover01

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Re: "Bad " key signatures for piano ?
«Reply #12 on: June 24, 2015, 09:32:46 PM »
And then he went and wrote his "Tempest and "Appassionata" in D minor and F minor respectively, which IMO are far more stormy than any of his sonatas in C minor.
Of course, I'm not factoring symphonies into this, so there is that.
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Offline kevonthegreatpianist

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Re: "Bad " key signatures for piano ?
«Reply #13 on: June 25, 2015, 04:27:18 AM »
And then he went and wrote his "Tempest and "Appassionata" in D minor and F minor respectively, which IMO are far more stormy than any of his sonatas in C minor.
Of course, I'm not factoring symphonies into this, so there is that.
True. The 5th symphony is a troll.

I think the Op.111 is very stormy, and it's in c minor. C minor, IMO, is a very stormy key, like I said.
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Offline falconpunnch

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Re: "Bad " key signatures for piano ?
«Reply #14 on: June 25, 2015, 10:54:06 AM »
Thanks for the replies guys. I didn't know that a key can influence the emotion in the song - I mean major is happier than minor ( with some exceptions of course ). But i didn't know that songs in C minor for example are 'angrier' than those in B minor? Unless you have perfect pitch and few people in the audience will, it will be the same. I always thought the key should be simple let's say two or three sharps.

Offline kevonthegreatpianist

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Re: "Bad " key signatures for piano ?
«Reply #15 on: June 27, 2015, 03:40:40 AM »
Thanks for the replies guys. I didn't know that a key can influence the emotion in the song - I mean major is happier than minor ( with some exceptions of course ). But i didn't know that songs in C minor for example are 'angrier' than those in B minor? Unless you have perfect pitch and few people in the audience will, it will be the same. I always thought the key should be simple let's say two or three sharps.
Chopin Sonata in b minor is actually a very stormy sonata, but eh.
I made an account and hadn't used it in a year. Welcome back, kevon.