Speed Learning

[dreamaurora]

I have been intrigued by the pace and speed some people pick up piano. I have a friend who claimed he could play extremely advanced pieces within 1 and half year of beginning piano study without prior musical knowledge and experience, among the pieces he claimed he could play were complete Gaspard De la Nut, Liszt's Concert Etudes and Hungarian Rhapsodies, Islamey, etc.

I am extremely baffled by this. Is there any trick to it, or is it just pure talent that factors here ? As far as I know, I have been slogging my diploma exam pieces for months now and I couldn't even play them well yet, and yet this person could play Gaspard De La Nuit ( he claimed he learn the entire Gaspard in just one month flat ). Is there any way to learn piano faster ? Any experts here care to share the secret ?

[tosca1]

Everyone has a different learning speed and there are certainly some lucky people who have a natural facility with the keyboard and can play amost anything with natural ease. Most pianists have to work very very hard and recently I read a comment from the extraordinarily wonderful pianist Mitsuko Uchida who said that she "had no talent"!
The point is that many pianists may be able to quickly learn and  play through a difficult work for example, but there may not be a single note of music in their performance.
What distinguishes the great pianists from the ordinary are their musical insights and creative response to the notes.
Although you may be slogging away at your diploma pieces you may well be preparing a much  more convincing presentation than someone who has learnt a similar piece in a few weeks.
Good luck,
Robert.

[NetherMagic]

yes some ppl certainly have a talent for learning fast, like have you wondered how those professional pianists can learn so many different performance songs?!

i heard that some ppl born with musical talent can literally pick up a piece of music, read it, memorize most of it, and play it immediately

but of course, you only get like 1 person out of a million who could do that

otherwise just practice, practice, practice, it'll work =]

and also concentrate, that's one thing i notice some ppl never do when they're practicing.  What's the point to not concentrate when you're practicing?

also make sure when you're practicing practice like how you would play during recital, and dun practice mindlessly =]

[amee]

I think NetherMagic has some very good points.  Quality is very important in practice, not just how long you sit at the piano for.  Also it is important to look at the music from different angles and actually think how you want it to sound.  

[cziffra]

Lhevinnes said

"Do not claim that you were practicing if you spent even a note thinking about something else."

QUALITY NOT QUANTITY
very true.

[10Fingers]

hi,

i suggest czerny op. 299:  "school of velocity". i think it's pretty useful, try them!

thi

[dreamaurora]

Thanks for the response, guys. There have been many great replies. The friend that I'm mentioned above does not even have a teacher. He taught himself everything, he learns piano only for 1 year plus, but he claimed hes already able to write complex orchestral scores and sight read difficult pieces like Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody and also do complex improvisation. I guess this guy is really a great talent, imagine , he said that he nailed down Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody no 6  in just 2 hours time!!!!! I guess some people are just born with the natural talent. But i do agree that quality practice is very important.

Mi friend claimed that having a teacher actually impedes musical development. He said that without a teacher, he's free to express a music totally from his heart. Having a teacher actually limits creative response and restricts one's style. And also he said self-learning much faster, teachers will usually restrict you with easier pieces and prevent you from learning more advanced pieces. What do you guys think about this ? Is having a teacher really necessary in order to learn to play a piano well ? I have not heard mi friend perform before, but i'm quite sure he's telling the truth.

[tempest-Sonata]

ur friend is lying i cant believe that he can play the most difficult piece in the world within just 1 1/2 year.

pls tell him to play it and listen and all others he mentioned. so that u can assure that he is not lying.

but im sure he is lying. :-/

[amee]

dreamaurora,

Your friend has some very interesting points.  Everything he says is true about a teacher sometimes restricting you, but I believe a teacher is indispensable.  A teacher can point out things that you might not think about and can really help you in difficult places.  

[chopinetta]

my teacher last year lets me play anything i like. it's a key to improving, when you play a piece 1-2 levels higher than yours!

[ThEmUsIcMaNBJ]

You might want to question your friends personal evaluation of himself.  Because he was not musically trained it's very possible he's very badly slopping through the peices like Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody's, and not quite realize it himself.  Personally I started without a teacher and played for about a year when I started peices like Fantasie Impromptu, the 3rd movement of moonlight sonata, Rachmaninoff moment musical 4...  things like that...  AFTER A YEAR!  haha dont get too excited now.  I could play the first few parts of each peice DECENTLY...  to the untrained ear it sounded good.  But then recently I've gotten a very good teacher.  Now I've been playing for 2 years and about a month with a teacher about now.  And I've had to relearn all the parts that I learned because there were so many things I was doing that just weren't right.  

So basically what I'm saying is maybe he's not necessarrily lying but is kidding himself to believe himself to be better then he really is.  Because any first year stupid can pick up a Hungarian Rhapsody and play it VERY badly.  It takes the skill and experience of a much more advanced student to pick it up and learn it well.  

[chopinetta]

i think your friend has good points in saying that having a teacher impedes musical development. True, a teacher restricts us in learning some pieces but even though, teachers know what we really need, a teacher is a professional who guides you all the way. We all need a guide, don't we, especially when we go through something completely new?

[chopinetta]

i heard that gardner (raphsody in blue) had been self-teaching. but i wonder how many years he trained himself to be very good.

[amp]

Music is in the person, some people have the abiltity to learn quickly. However, with this particular person, how well does he read? Can he sight-read? I do not believe what he says, Dream...you sound intimadated by him--DON'T be. People who sit at the piano and stare at pieces like the Fantasie-improvtu for a year, can play them and probably convincingly. But, how have they grown musically? How has what they've done helped them? Besides giving them a peice to show off. A serious musican learns music, and studies it. Not the notes, and the "show-offy" speed. Ever heard the story abotu the truck driver who crashed his car? Just because they can play a piece like that does not mean they are good musicians, it means they imitate well, that's all. This is a kin to a kindergartener who just learned to write, trying to write a novel. They may be able to write the amount of pages for a novel....but how good would it be? Yeah it's amazing, but really means nothing in the long run. That student will never want to go backwards and learn the basics, that are fundamental.

Also, is it the case that your friend has "easy" versions of the pieces, and not realize it? :-)

[janus_007]

Amp-->  So you're actually saying that sight reading is impossible to learn in about 1-1.5 year ??

Am just asking, because im a totally newcomer to the piano and notes !. But I practice a lot  

[Chiyo]

janus_007, I think amp is referring to sight reading "difficult" music, IMO.

[Rach3]

Piano teachers are very important, both because they have very developed ears and understanding of the music, and because they will show you the best way to play a piece. If you are reading a piece and the notes are correct, it will sound 'good' regardgless of how bizzare and inexplicable an interpretation you have; playing the 'correct' way is preferable both by you and especially by listeners. Furthermore, the object of a student is not just to learn pieces and build repertoire for college admissions, but to develop ability and method, and playing pieces awkwardly and fudging the difficult passages will not help in learning the more difficult pieces later. Teachers are invaluable in teaching technical methods.

I myself am incredulous that anyone who attempts to learn such behemoths as Gaspard 'etc.' after one year has much understanding of what they playing and I expect their technqiue to be an unenjoyable fugue of fudging. Trust me, I should know.   Going through a more slow and steady course of learning is far more rewarding; the same teachers who drill Rondo all Turca WILL let you play Liszt 1 eventually.  

[amp]

janus_007...yeah I meant more difficult pieces. I meant the pieces he's working on. For example, you said you are new....you can probably sight read the material you are working on. But then take a piece 10 times harder, you proabably can't sightread it (maybe some parts, but not all), although if you spend a long time you could learn it. It's not that beginners can't sightread, it's that they would not be succesful "readign through" more difficult pieces they are playing. Like what  Rach3 was saying, I think the slow progress, with the combination of sightreading and rote is better.

And this is not to say that I can sight read everything I'm playing. But, I can read through and fix certain spots. I'm not looking at a measure, meorizing it then moving to the next....Also, I have some pieces I would be succeful sightreading, then the practicing is to polish. Then others that I have to be picky.

Do I make sense? Hope so :-)

[JTownley]

Dream, I'm afraid to say your friend is yanking your chain! Are you female? I hate to inject sexism into this but my gut reaction is:
1) You're female, young and very pretty.
2) Your friend is saying all this to try to impress you because he likes you and wants you to fall all over him.

It is NOT possible for a person to get to the level of playing Scarbo, SELF-TAUGHT, YET, in 1 1/2 years!! I should know. I was considered something of a prodigy when I was young and it took me 2 years just to get to Fantasie Impromptu. How old is your friend now? Have you heard him play? Ask him to play Scarbo for you. I guarantee you he'll back off. If he does play it (highly unlikely) he's been playing a LOT longer than 1 1/2 years. On the bright side, be flattered that he'd go to such lengths to impress you! He's got a REAL HUGE crush on you!!  https://www.JoeTownley.com  for some nice videos of Rachmaninoff Preludes and Chopin.

[chopinetta]

hello JTownley! I had been advertising your website. I hope it's okay.

Your post is funny!

[JTownley]

Thank you, Chopinetta for your kind help! BTW, how do I know about what I advised Dream on? Because I'm guilty of doing the same thing when I was in H.S. There was this gorgeous girl that all the guys were tripping over themselves to take out. They were football players, basketball players, swimmers, athletic jocks...the whole nine yards! All I had was my measly piano playing. I did everything I could to capture her heart. I played for her, I invented stories to impress her, like how I'd played the Rach 3 with the New York Phil when I was six or something. Far as she knew the Rach 3 was just another NASA Shuttle Craft. And in the end the captain of the football team won her heart. That's why guy pianists are the loneliest guys in the world.  

[JTownley]

 Did I mention she eventually married the Captain of the football team, had a  litter of little football players, and then divorced him 5 years later because of infidelity?
https://www.JoeTownley.com  Lots of piano videos!!

[sasson]

Dream, i don't think you should worry about your friends ability. you should do what's right for you. train well and you will never regret it.
Joe Townley, not my business, but if the girl didn't appreciate such good music, then it's best you didn't end up with her! I'd rather be lonely than with the prettiest guy/girl who doesn't get me !

[JTownley]

I tend to agree, Sasson. Still, she was a real looker and I still do miss her at times. !!  I have a photo of her still (can't seem to part w/ it.)  If i can figure out a way to post it here you'll see why I still pine for her occasionally even after all these years.

[ThEmUsIcMaNBJ]

hey joe!  i'm in the process of the same situation right now!  still in highschool hehe...  Most gorgeous girl everyone wants to take her out...  And yeah all I have is the piano!  but!  hehe maybe I'm more lucky than you or what but she seems to love that I play piano haha!  actually I'm taking her to dinner tonight wish me luck!  

[BoliverAllmon]

Yeah it's amazing, but really means nothing in the long run. That student will never want to go backwards and learn the basics, that are fundamental.

Agreed,  I have a friend who learned how to play Fur Elise, Alla Turca, and other difficult pieces. The problem he has is he didn't have a competent teacher to teach him anything other than notes. Now, he is working on Revolutionary Etude and is aggravated because he doesn't understand certain passages because of lack of theory. He definately doesn't want to go to easier pieces and relearn either.

Boliver Allmon

[JTownley]

MusicMan writes:

Wish me luck, Joe!

I certainly do, guy! There's nothing more romantic to me than having the lady of your dreams leaning on the piano, her eyes firmly fixed on you while you play Rachmaninoff - she just gently biting her lower lip in a restrained display of burning desire as she stares intently while your fingers roam the keyboard, and you occasionally glance up and, as she smiles ever so sweetly, yours and her eyes lock together in an indissoluble embrace. That's the stuff that immortal love stories are made up. Make history 2nite, tiger! (and tell us about it 2morrow! hehe)