What "level" would the average pianist that has been playing for 3 years be at?

[salim]

Reason being I've been playing for almost 3 years and am wondering where the average person would be for playing this amount of time.. As in, what grade pieces they are able to perform properly?

[mjames]

It's not about how long you've been playing

it's about how well you practice, how much you practice (whether its consistent or not), and you talent.

Personally I've been playing for almost 3 years and I'm having no trouble studying my current repertoire. I just 'finished' working on Rach's op. 3 no.2, chopin nocturne op. 9 no.1, and schuberts sonata fantasie first movie. I can play them decently. There are improvements that can be made but overall I'm satisfied with my studies.

Whenever I work with pieces that are significantly difficult than what I'm usually used to, along them  I always work on stuff that are usually technically and musically accessible. Hence the Schubert landler, and the scriabin mazurkas. They're not too bad.

Also it's not about what you play, but how you play it.

[outin]

and schuberts sonata fantasie first movie.

[visitor]

It's not about how long you've been playing


Also it's not about what you play, but how you play it.

exactly. i find my level/grade goes up when i play sitting down. i am definitely less good if i play while standing.

[dcstudio]

Personally I've been playing for almost 3 years and I'm having no trouble studying my current repertoire. I just 'finished' working on Rach's op. 3 no.2, chopin nocturne op. 9 no.1, and schuberts sonata fantasie first movie. I can play them decently. There are improvements that can be made but overall I'm satisfied with my studies.

for the record.. and based on my experiences as a teacher... I don't think that's average...

mjames--that's really amazing that you are playing at that level after 3 years you must be quite talented. 

[salim]

It's not about how long you've been playing

it's about how well you practice, how much you practice (whether its consistent or not), and you talent.

Personally I've been playing for almost 3 years and I'm having no trouble studying my current repertoire. I just 'finished' working on Rach's op. 3 no.2, chopin nocturne op. 9 no.1, and schuberts sonata fantasie first movie. I can play them decently. There are improvements that can be made but overall I'm satisfied with my studies.

Whenever I work with pieces that are significantly difficult than what I'm usually used to, along them  I always work on stuff that are usually technically and musically accessible. Hence the Schubert landler, and the scriabin mazurkas. They're not too bad.

Also it's not about what you play, but how you play it.

Yep! I don't play all e(motionless) like a lot of people do.. I let the music flow, you know?
I can't believe its the first time I heard Rachmaninoff's op. 3 no.2... Definitely going to learn this soon! Thank you ^^

[salim]

Thanks for the replies, I guess I'm really happy with where I currently am at.. Just got to keep at it and be as good as I can ^^

[outin]

Yep! I don't play all e(motionless) like a lot of people do.. I let the music flow, you know?

This of course can mean any of the two things:
- You play like you feel with sloppy technique, uncontrolled tone and rhythm and possibly ignoring some of the composer's markings on the score
- You play with lovely technique and tone while being able to relax and get into the flow and express your own ideas of the music (I personally dislike the idea of expressing ones EMOTIONS while playing)

If you can achieve the 2nd with your pieces after only 3 years then you are way above average. After 4 years of daily study I am still mostly struggling with details and can only get a glimpse sometimes of what it means to be able to do the 2nd.

[salim]

This of course can mean any of the two things:
- You play like you feel with sloppy technique, uncontrolled tone and rhythm and possibly ignoring some of the composer's markings on the score
- You play with lovely technique and tone while being able to relax and get into the flow and express your own ideas of the music (I personally dislike the idea of expressing ones EMOTIONS while playing)

If you can achieve the 2nd with your pieces after only 3 years then you are way above average. After 4 years of daily study I am still mostly struggling with details and can only get a glimpse sometimes of what it means to be able to do the 2nd.

Second one but not exactly.. I can play with good technique and play as intended from the sheets, getting in the flow of the piece, and play somewhat passionately. But right now I'm learning Moonlight Sonata 3rd Movement, and I'm still figuring out a good technique, so I can only play like that for pieces easier than that difficulty in general, but I'm working on changing that ^^

[dcstudio]

Second one but not exactly.. I can play with good technique and play as intended from the sheets, getting in the flow of the piece, and play somewhat passionately. But right now I'm learning Moonlight Sonata 3rd Movement, and I'm still figuring out a good technique, so I can only play like that for pieces easier than that difficulty in general, but I'm working on changing that ^^

geez--really?  the 3rd mvmt after 3 years?   and you are wondering if you are "on track?" 

in my day 3-4 years of piano meant that you were hitting the easier inventions.   Of course I was only 8 yrs old after 4 years of lessons.

I tried to play the MS 3rd mvmt way later in the game and failed at it.    Years later I picked it up and the only thing that was really that hard about it (those trills notwithstanding)  was unlearning all the bad habits I picked up on it by trying to play it before I was ready.  Those "bad habits" still crop up now and then to this day when I play that one.

[mjames]

Agreed, that moonlight sonata is years and years above me. I don't even dare to think about it. Quite amazing that you're attempting it so early but then again, we don't know how well you play. I have a phobia of butchering pieces, but thank god I don't have an obsession with Beethoven's moonlight like so many other newcommers to classical piano do.

Oh Outin and Visitor, those are the kind of replies that deserve a huge middle finger. lol

[roncesvalles]

It depends.  Are you a teenager or adult?  How much do you practice?  What do you practice?  How do you practice?  Do you have a teacher?  Do you play pieces that are within your current ability, yet challenge you to learn new things?

I'm at about year three.   I have no teacher.   I'm in the Honors College at my university and am a chemistry student, so I have next to no time during the busy, intense school year to work on new stuff and practice every day (so I improvise, play things from memory, or sight read the odd prelude here or there, when I can).    I can play Bach Inventions, Preludes from Book 1 of the WTC, Chopin easier-to-intermediate preludes, waltzes, and mazurkas, easier Scriabin, some Mozart, and other things I like, like some Stanchinsky and more contemporary things--so the level of things I play are mostly easy, with a few intermediate pieces thrown in.   Pre-20th century music with left hands consisting of chords or arpeggios are easy for me, but I have difficulty with polyphonic pieces (they're hard for me to learn because both hands are so active, although once I learn them I easily get them up to speed), and pieces consisting of chords with many accidentals, contrary motion, and jumps are difficult for me.  Polyrhythms are also not my strong suit--I can play a piece that is solely in one polyrhythm, like some Scriabin and a Sorabji Etude I never finished learning, but when rhythms are "normal" and then switch to a polyrhythm, or change polyrhythms, it gives me a headache.

This summer I've practiced a lot (Liszt Technical Exercises, staccato scales, arpeggios, five finger exercises running up and down every key, bits of Etudes from Busoni, Chopin, Liszt, and Scriabin for more musical practice, mostly on double notes), and my technique has been transformed.  Suddenly things that have felt impossible are within sight, which is an amazing feeling.   I'm focusing on Bach for the time being to focus on my flaws, but, coming up on three years, I finally feel capable of playing some of the things I want to play and like I'm on track to at some point play my dream pieces.   That is probably what you should aim for in year three--the ability to play some of the easier repertoire, and enough progress to give you hope that you can play the things you really want to play.

[salim]

Agreed, that moonlight sonata is years and years above me. I don't even dare to think about it. Quite amazing that you're attempting it so early but then again, we don't know how well you play. I have a phobia of butchering pieces, but thank god I don't have an obsession with Beethoven's moonlight like so many other newcommers to classical piano do.

Oh Outin and Visitor, those are the kind of replies that deserve a huge middle finger. lol

To be fair Visitor made me laugh a little lol

[salim]

It depends.  Are you a teenager or adult?  How much do you practice?  What do you practice?  How do you practice?  Do you have a teacher?  Do you play pieces that are within your current ability, yet challenge you to learn new things?

I'm at about year three.   I have no teacher.   I'm in the Honors College at my university and am a chemistry student, so I have next to no time during the busy, intense school year to work on new stuff and practice every day (so I improvise, play things from memory, or sight read the odd prelude here or there, when I can).    I can play Bach Inventions, Preludes from Book 1 of the WTC, Chopin easier-to-intermediate preludes, waltzes, and mazurkas, easier Scriabin, some Mozart, and other things I like, like some Stanchinsky and more contemporary things--so the level of things I play are mostly easy, with a few intermediate pieces thrown in.   Pre-20th century music with left hands consisting of chords or arpeggios are easy for me, but I have difficulty with polyphonic pieces (they're hard for me to learn because both hands are so active, although once I learn them I easily get them up to speed), and pieces consisting of chords with many accidentals, contrary motion, and jumps are difficult for me.  Polyrhythms are also not my strong suit--I can play a piece that is solely in one polyrhythm, like some Scriabin and a Sorabji Etude I never finished learning, but when rhythms are "normal" and then switch to a polyrhythm, or change polyrhythms, it gives me a headache.

This summer I've practiced a lot (Liszt Technical Exercises, staccato scales, arpeggios, five finger exercises running up and down every key, bits of Etudes from Busoni, Chopin, Liszt, and Scriabin for more musical practice, mostly on double notes), and my technique has been transformed.  Suddenly things that have felt impossible are within sight, which is an amazing feeling.   I'm focusing on Bach for the time being to focus on my flaws, but, coming up on three years, I finally feel capable of playing some of the things I want to play and like I'm on track to at some point play my dream pieces.   That is probably what you should aim for in year three--the ability to play some of the easier repertoire, and enough progress to give you hope that you can play the things you really want to play.

I'm a teenager, no teacher but I'm generally a quick learner (and am good at independant work).. I've been playing a minimum of 1 hour a day for the last three years (with a few days being missed out because of exams >.<) and seeing as how it's my summer break I'm playing between 4-6 hours a day lol. Since I've started playing I always learn pieces that require skills that I have to develop, just so that after I learned the piece I gained the skills..

Ahhh I plan on studying Medicine when the time comes so I doubt I'll have much time to play either   But that's why I'm doing as much as I can to be the best I can be. Have you tried the Hanon exercises? I've started learning them recently but don't know if that's really the best set of exercises to do..

[salim]

geez--really?  the 3rd mvmt after 3 years?   and you are wondering if you are "on track?"  

in my day 3-4 years of piano meant that you were hitting the easier inventions.   Of course I was only 8 yrs old after 4 years of lessons.

I tried to play the MS 3rd mvmt way later in the game and failed at it.    Years later I picked it up and the only thing that was really that hard about it (those trills notwithstanding)  was unlearning all the bad habits I picked up on it by trying to play it before I was ready.  Those "bad habits" still crop up now and then to this day when I play that one.

lol tbh I don't even know what the average is because I see 10 year olds playing advanced pieces that adults play.. Although they are pretty robot like..

[outin]

lol tbh I don't even know what the average is because I see 10 year olds playing advanced pieces that adults play.. Although they are pretty robot like..

Most of those (few) 10 year olds have been playing 6 to 7 years, have very good teachers and exceptional talent.

An average 10 year old taking piano lessons will still work on methods books.

[dcstudio]

An average 10 year old taking piano lessons will still work on methods books.

and they hate their piano lessons--so they don't practice
. 

 sad-- so many of the kids with teachers don't practice

and so many of those without teachers sit for days at the piano...

[outin]

and they hate their piano lessons--so they don't practice
. 

That's how it was for me

But now do I practice AND have a teacher...it only took 30+ years to get there 

[dcstudio]

That's how it was for me

But now do I practice AND have a teacher...

and independent study is always a plus...


having a teacher and practicing...wow..you know...  that's really the only tried and true way...  sometimes people think they are going to invent a new path--they are going to do it differently... they will be able to play the Rach 2nd if they just practice 9 hours a day for six months--they have no idea how to practice, what to practice---but they sit there anyway.

they think they can figure it out--and some do--but the vast majority...   are forever lost.

[salim]

and independent study is always a plus...


having a teacher and practicing...wow..you know...  that's really the only tried and true way...  sometimes people think they are going to invent a new path--they are going to do it differently... they will be able to play the Rach 2nd if they just practice 9 hours a day for six months--they have no idea how to practice, what to practice---but they sit there anyway.

they think they can figure it out--and some do--but the vast majority...   are forever lost.

I'm a self learner myself, can't get a teacher sadly
But aren't there any good resources on the web that help practice or is having a teacher the best way (by far) to get better?

[dogperson]

I'm a self learner myself, can't get a teacher sadly
But aren't there any good resources on the web that help practice or is having a teacher the best way (by far) to get better?

I am a returning adult pianist with one year of lessons after the return  I had a a DECENT skill level of theory and repertoire the first round .... but I cannot overemphasize enough that I get from my lessons what I could never do on my own:  a different approach for problem sections, a better way of playing a passage,  suggestion for different fingering, different approaches to practicing based on my person weaknesses. She hears how I play at a level that I would have great difficulty EVER hearing.  Need more?  The last year has been frustrating, but when I look back where I was one year ago, I realize how far I have come... really due to the lessons.  I would make my dog beg on the street corner so I could pay for it before I would quit. I consider the cost my weekly investment to improving practice for the other 6 days... and improving the way I play.

Really, method books can't substitute for this... but it depends on what your goals are.  If you want to play simple pop and sing-along,  I 'think' you could manage.  If you want to seriously learn classical or jazz,  get a teacher.  Just my perspective, of course.   

[dcstudio]

I'm a self learner myself, can't get a teacher sadly
But aren't there any good resources on the web that help practice or is having a teacher the best way (by far) to get better?

hey sorry didn't mean for that to sound so mean.  Nowadays, you have the internet and yes there are vast amounts of learning material freely available--and yes it does help.   Additionally, some teachers are so bad that in some cases self - learning is better.

I really totally understand the total all-consuming desire to play the piano--I have been at it for decades and I still get obsessive...I understand the sheer excitement as you realize you are actually going to be able to play someday.  
but---I have seen so many students--especially adolescent boys--who think they know everything already and I don't know my arse from my elbow when it comes to playing.   They seem to have one "app" in their brain that simply checks off the note as its played---if their tempo varies or even if they are totally butchering something--they don't believe you because their mind is telling them they played all the notes... it can be a real pain. lol.  Their ears are not trained to listen for things like phrasing--or even legato playing...   all notes played=sounds great.  that just ain't the case.

If you are not going to get a teacher --set aside time to study away from the piano--there are complete theory and ear-training resources online... use them.

The reason you have a teacher is primarily for another set of ears, and the years of experience they have.   Anyone can teach from a method book...   when you have issues--an experienced teacher will have seen it a 1000 times and will already have strategies in place to correct the problem.   Teachers also help to bridge the gap between learning theory and applying it.  They tell you what all those marks mean in the music.   Basically a good teacher knows exactly what it is you need to know and how to pass on the information so you can understand it..

When you get stuck and you have no teacher....  it can be oh so frustrating.

[outin]

and independent study is always a plus...

It is essential to me...I could never ONLY rely on what my teacher teaches me, I am a researcher by heart and just cannot turn it off...And learning by once's own discovery is always more profound.

But I still need those second ears and that second mind to achieve a better quality and push me to try again when things seem impossible.

[sabtan]

I am a returning adult pianist with one year of lessons after the return  I had a a DECENT skill level of theory and repertoire the first round .... but I cannot overemphasize enough that I get from my lessons what I could never do on my own:  a different approach for problem sections, a better way of playing a passage,  suggestion for different fingering, different approaches to practicing based on my person weaknesses. She hears how I play at a level that I would have great difficulty EVER hearing.  Need more?  The last year has been frustrating, but when I look back where I was one year ago, I realize how far I have come... really due to the lessons.  I would make my dog beg on the street corner so I could pay for it before I would quit. I consider the cost my weekly investment to improving practice for the other 6 days... and improving the way I play.

Really, method books can't substitute for this... but it depends on what your goals are.  If you want to play simple pop and sing-along,  I 'think' you could manage.  If you want to seriously learn classical or jazz,  get a teacher.  Just my perspective, of course.   

My sentiments exactly. Would have hit a "Like" button if there is one.

[kawai_cs]

I completely identify with what Dogperson wrote. I am returning to piano after over 10 (!!) years of not playing. I got the greatest teacher recently, a concert pianist and pedagogue herself, and I cannot prize her enough. She notices and hears things I would probably never pay attention to and gives me instructions or sometimes just little hint on whatsoever (fingering, movement, hand position, way of practicing) - and my playing improves. That is really like WOW!!
I do not think a self-taught person playing only 1 hour a day is capable of judging there own technique. Post something then we can give you some advice. It means absolutely nothing that you are attempting to play Moonlight sonata or whatever advanced piece. You may be just butchering it and not even noticing. The more one knows, the more one is aware how much they still do not know - if you know what I mean by that

[dcstudio]

..I could never ONLY rely on what my teacher teaches me,


 when things seem impossible.

yes--and discuss what you learned independently with your teacher...  I cannot begin to tell you how cool it was conversing with a student and answering their questions when I knew that they had prepared like that and had studied on their own.    Much of the time teaching piano can really be a totally thankless job..    That's why you guys always buy us Christmas presents

and when things seem impossible


often times your teacher has been there himself--feeling exactly the same way--doing exactly the same thing... and he knows how to fix the seemingly impossible.   I should note here--those who were child prodigies...sometimes--just sometimes--have no way to relate to your problems because it was so easy for them...   they do much better with the most advanced students --who have played since birth--than they do with rebounders or  beginners.
start with a guy or gal who says they had a rough start at the piano...they are a bit more understanding.

[outin]

and when things seem impossible

often times your teacher has been there himself--feeling exactly the same way--doing exactly the same thing... and he knows how to fix the seemingly impossible.   I should note here--those who were child prodigies...sometimes--just sometimes--have no way to relate to your problems because it was so easy for them...   they do much better with the most advanced students --who have played since birth--than they do with rebounders or  beginners.
start with a guy or gal who says they had a rough start at the piano...they are a bit more understanding.

I think my teacher was born in a piano...so she probably doesn't really understand all my struggles...She just doesn't take no for an answer and sends me home with all these impossible missions (never without good advice and help though). But usually it works, and I have a solution before the next lesson. Can be a bit rough though...Because when I fix one thing next time she gives me two more so there's no rest 

[salim]

Hmm.. I'm going to beg my parents if they can pay for a good piano teacher lol. If it makes a huge difference I'll stick to keeping them.. if not, I'll just go about with what resources I currently have. Thanks all!

[dcstudio]

I think my teacher was born in a piano...so she probably doesn't really understand all my struggles...She just doesn't take no for an answer and sends me home with all these impossible missions (never without good advice and help though). But usually it works, and I have a solution before the next lesson. Can be a bit rough though...Because when I fix one thing next time she gives me two more so there's no rest 

I like your teacher. lol...nobody said a good teacher made you comfortable...or was easy.   It's working and I really like that you go home and figure it out....  maybe she has a plan.

[tabeticclown]

I don't think there really is such a thing as the average pianist, how far you can progress in a given time is based on a number of factors: age, personality, schedule, quality of the instrument, etc.

I've been playing for about two and a half years and right now I'm learning Beethoven's Third Piano Concerto and also Bach's inventions, but they're absolutely no problem for me technically except for the left hand trills. I just finished learning Brahm's Rhapsody's Op. 79 and I can play Chopin's Op. 72, many of his mazurkas, Op. 37 No. 2, and his b-flat minor posthumous polonaise, about half of Tchaikovsky's The Seasons, a couple of Mendelssohns Songs Without Words, and more pieces that I haven't really upkept.

[outin]

quality of the instrument, etc.

This is not often mentioned, but it really can have an impact on learning speed. Trying to make repertoire sound good on a crappy upright means a lot of "extra" work and in the end the things you worked so hard for won't work at all on a properly regulated grand. This becomes more clear when the repertoire is more advanced.

[sumpianodude]

This is not often mentioned, but it really can have an impact on learning speed. Trying to make repertoire sound good on a crappy upright means a lot of "extra" work and in the end the things you worked so hard for won't work at all on a properly regulated grand. This becomes more clear when the repertoire is more advanced.

just out of curiosity...
would a yamaha wx-7 be a "crappy upright?"

[outin]

just out of curiosity...
would a yamaha wx-7 be a "crappy upright?"

First I don't know what that model is. Yamaha uses different model names in different areas of the world.

But secondly, it's not so much about which model you have. Pianos are individuals, even those processed in standardized factory conditions. Everything that happens to the piano after it is sent out to the world will have an impact on it. Maintenance will affect it as well as conditions. So there's no way to know except by playing one.  A good piano will respond reliably to the pianists actions and doesn't feel uncomfortable to play. The sound should also be good enough so that one can achieve good results with normal playing.

Thirdly, even a good upright doesn't work like a grand, so it will be difficult or impossible to execute all things like repeated notes and ornaments the same way as with a grand. With a grand it's much easier to play deep into the keys, which is often important. Also the left pedal is just a "fake" on an upright. In advanced repertoire the benefits of a grand will become more and more important for the player, but even in easier repertoire some things are much easier to do on a well regulated grand that some of the heavier uprights.

I personally think I could shave off at least a year of my learning curve so far if I had the possibility to practice on something like what I play at my lessons. I spend a lot of extra time trying to make the music sound good on my own piano... In fact getting a digital greatly benefited my learning because it has a more responsive touch than my acoustic.

[roncesvalles]

Outin, your post makes me feel better about my playing.  I practice on a Yamaha console, and my repeated notes (321 and 4321 fingering, principally) are not up to par, despite almost daily practice.  I've felt my coordination improve but not the speed.   It's an odd feeling because I often practice scales with fingers 123, and I can do a great many of them fairly rapidly, but when all three fingers sound the same note there is a considerable loss in speed.   I'm at a fairly early stage in my technical development and don't want to blame anything on an instrument, but this has stood out as the only thing I have practiced at and in which I have not found any noticeable improvement.

[lostinidlewonder]

3 years work depends on your aims and motivations. As a teacher of hundreds of students over the years I see people taking 2 specific paths. One that they set themselves and one that they follow set by the teacher. The path that I set my students is one that provides them with strong sight reading and learning skills, I dislike teaching small amounts of pieces and polishing them which is a process music examinations around the world pretty much force everyone into.

Many like to study repertoire that excites them and like zombies happily waste months and months, even years learning difficult pieces to completion and struggle to play it beautifully. Our time is short on this earth, if enjoying to play 30 or so pieces in your life time is good enough then study single pieces and waste as much time as you like, but if you'd like to be able to play tens of thousands of pieces immediately through strong reading skills then perhaps you might want to study how to develop your learning skills. Then you can reduce the time to learn all the piece you love and more to mastery.

[sumpianodude]

Many like to study repertoire that excites them and like zombies happily waste months and months, even years learning difficult pieces to completion and struggle to play it beautifully. Our time is short on this earth, if enjoying to play 30 or so pieces in your life time is good enough then study single pieces and waste as much time as you like, but if you'd like to be able to play tens of thousands of pieces immediately through strong reading skills then perhaps you might want to study how to develop your learning skills. Then you can reduce the time to learn all the piece you love and more to mastery.

so.. the million dollar question...
how DO you practice?
rythms? links? hands spereate? grind a part until you know it? memorize chords to make notes easier?

[dcstudio]

so.. the million dollar question...
how DO you practice?
rythms? links? hands spereate? grind a part until you know it? memorize chords to make notes easier?

  all of the above and more

[mjames]

>playing for 2 years
>working on beethoven's piano concerti

What?

[tabeticclown]

>playing for 2 years
>working on beethoven's piano concerti

What?

It's actually been about two and a half years and I'm working on his third piano concerto. I've progressed as far as I have in such a short time for a few reasons: I started at probably the optimal point in my life, I was sixteen and enrolled in school online, so I had all the free time imaginable; I had already had plenty of experience with music I started playing the saxophone around the fifth grade, the trumpet in the seventh grade, bass guitar in the eighth, and french horn in the ninth; I had the fortune of finding a fantastic piano teacher through my piano tuner; I've also been told by many professionals that my hands are ideal for the instrument, but I don't think that's made a very big impact.

I think what fueled my progress the most, however, was the fact that I started on the instrument so late so I was very far behind many others my age, and I wanted to make a career out of it and that motivated me. Of course, I'm not going to be a concert pianist, but I am auditioning for the Music Education programs at Indiana University and the lesser known Ball State in the spring.

What can be accomplished with a good work ethic and plenty of free time is incredible.

[mjames]

post recordings pls

inb4 i dont have a good mic

[tabeticclown]

post recordings pls

inb4 i dont have a good mic

I don't need to prove anything to you. Believe or don't believe me, makes absolutely no difference. I can tell you that it was my piano teacher who gave me the piece to learn, and considering she has a masters in piano performance from the Royal Academy of Music in Toronto and a DA in Chamber Music/Accompanying I'd say she's pretty qualified to gauge what I can and can't play.

I may or may not post audio sometime tomorrow, depends on how I feel about it then.

[mjames]

I don't need to prove anything to you.

Why are you so defensive? I never said you did. All I did was ask, and all you have to do is say no.

I'm just saying, you're not the first self-proclaimed genius.

[tabeticclown]

I think you may be overestimating the difficulty of the piece. There are a few tricky places, but the only places that are really holding me up are measures 163-169 the place with the moderately fast fourths in the right hand, but it's the left hand that's holding me back there, the part with sixteenths in the right and the triplet melody in the left right before the second theme is repeated in c major rather than e major. And of course the cadenza, I may or may not be able to get the end with the trills in both hands.

The second movement is no problem technically and I haven't started the third.

I'm not claiming to be a genius. If I sounded defensive it's because I was. You asking me to post recordings implies that I was lying or would lie, but why would I lie about that? Of course you don't know me at all, and I don't know you, so it's not unreasonable to be dubious of any claims made. I don't see how the situation could've played out any differently, let's forget about it. Believe me or don't believe me.

[mjames]

I'm not overestimating anything. There's more to music than just technical difficulties. You're talking about a concerto, that's over a half hour long. A work that requires someone to have a large degree of experience with the piano and music in general. Something I highly doubt that could be achieved in just over two years, even if you were a super genius. If anything I was just interested in hearing your playing. Nothing more, nothing less. If you want to, then do it, if not, just say no. You don't have to engage in this self-defensive debate charade because honestly, I really don't care.

[lostinidlewonder]

It's too much to write and explain how to develop reading/learning skills, I wish I could say it in a few words. Too many people IMO think piano is all about beautiful expression and practicing hard to master dazzling notes, it is this but it is not all of it. Students of piano do themselves great disservice neglecting to CONSTANTLY improve their reading skills in a purposeful manner. Basic idea is to read a lot of easy works and understand all fingering naturally and slowly build from there, the level of what you can read fluently will constantly rise up and up. Once reading learning skills are at a strong level then one can seriously chew through a lot of repertoire they like at a fast and efficient learning rate. This is my view on effective piano study though of course many people simply want to play a few pieces they like and think that the difficulties they face is normal. Nothing wrong with studying pieces that inspire you but don't let it absorb all of your efforts to improve at the piano, terribly inefficient in my experience although one can't take away the reward one feels playing/learning/improving pieces you love, I just hate seeing people waste time.

[sumpianodude]

  all of the above and more

what is "more"?

[lostinidlewonder]

what is "more"?

Maybe if you read a bit more instead of wanting to be spoonfed?

[outin]

Maybe if you read a bit more instead of wanting to be spoonfed?

I think the young people today have an issue with collecting information from various sources over time and then process that into deeper understanding. They expect quick immediate answers Google style... Not their fault of course.

How many read books anymore? It's a common assumption that all knowledge is available in the net in easily palatable form.

[toby1]

I played World of Warcraft for about 6 months and easily hit the level cap. Obviously it takes much longer than that to be raid ready though.

After 3 years of piano you should easily be at level cap with mad epic lootz and at least one legendary keyboard.

In all seriousness this is a bad question. Read up K. Anders Ericsson's stuff on expertise acquisition. To get optimal results you want to use effective practice strategies, rack up the hours of effective practice and always make sure that you're doing it when you're mentally fresh, well rested and in good health. Avoid overplaying or mis-practicing so you don't get injuries and get a good teacher so you don't pick up bad habits and before you know it, you can play better.

How far you get depends on whether you're spacing your practice out at regular intervals too ( a bit daily is always better than a lot once a month) and how much time you can devote. There's no shortcuts to skill though there can be plenty of ways to get distracted and sidetracked.

Pro-tip for the day is don't compare yourself to other people cause you don't know their background, previous experience or how long or often or effectively they practiced. Just focus on yourself and trying to better today and tomorrow than you were yesterday.

[sumpianodude]

How many read books anymore?

if you mean reading books for information rather than entertainment, not many at all. I personally don't know a single one, but I know a lot of people who read in general.

Maybe if you read a bit more

do you mean this post? or just other posts in general?

Basic idea is to read a lot of easy works and understand all fingering naturally and slowly build from there, the level of what you can read fluently will constantly rise up and up. Once reading learning skills are at a strong level then one can seriously chew through a lot of repertoire they like at a fast and efficient learning rate