Sheer beginner here! What classical piece to start learning with?

[desherron]

Hi there ivory&ebony lovers! Aloha from Russia!

I am starting with my piano practice now! Been a guitar player for years and now want to push some keys 

The question is what classical piece will be the most valuable in learning piano? What would you suggest to start with?

P.S.: Let us left alone fingers, chords and scales practicing - they are obviously a must!

Thank you!

[roncesvalles]

If you are in a location where a teacher is available, I strongly recommend that you find one.   A good teacher can help you out by seeing things in your playing that you are not experienced enough to see.   This will save you a lot of time in trying to correct mistakes and to improve as a player.

As far as music for absolute beginners, the only thing I know of is Bartok's Mikrokosmos, starting from book one.  It is intended to develop your sight reading (which is very important if you want to play classical music) and your sense of musicality.   It starts off very easy with music that sounds a little like Gregorian chanting, but it gradually gets more involved.

[adodd81802]

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[desherron]

Thank you! Yes, I got my eye on a teacher already   And, I am planning to invite her from time to time to point out what to correct and where to move.

Let me further explain. I'd like to hear the names of those classical pieces (as I already know what pop-rock pieces I'd like to fool around with  ) you loved most of all when started learning pianos.

[desherron]

Thanks, adodd81802 ! This is exactly what I need!

[pianotv]

Bartok also has a collection called "First Term at the Piano", which is similar to Mikrokosmos - starts out very simply, and slowly becomes more difficult. That would be more of a collection to work on, as opposed to just a single piece. I also really like Clementi's Art of Playing the Pianoforte - the first half is all instructional, and the second half is all music. I find it more difficult than Bartok's books, and in the Baroque style if you're wanting to get into Bach later on. Berens has a collection, op. 70, aimed at beginners as well, and it's all about developing hand independence - the pieces are like drills for specific techniques. Good luck, and hope that helps!

[desherron]

Bartok also has a collection called "First Term at the Piano", which is similar to Mikrokosmos - starts out very simply, and slowly becomes more difficult. That would be more of a collection to work on, as opposed to just a single piece. I also really like Clementi's Art of Playing the Pianoforte - the first half is all instructional, and the second half is all music. I find it more difficult than Bartok's books, and in the Baroque style if you're wanting to get into Bach later on. Berens has a collection, op. 70, aimed at beginners as well, and it's all about developing hand independence - the pieces are like drills for specific techniques. Good luck, and hope that helps!

Great! Thanks!

[desherron]

Looked at Bartok' "First Term at the Piano" and "Mikrokosmos" and Czerny op 599.

Could not make friends with "Mikrokosmos" while both, op.599 and, especially, "First Term at the Piano" sound just brilliant to me. Very inspiring!

Thanks to all of you so much!

[dcstudio]

hey  russia

that's cool

let me welcome you to piano street with a tune from russia--actually I think it was originally from the Ukraine..but I've only heard it sung in Russian

my arrangement of   Ochi Chornye in honor of our new member...  it is one of my all-time favorite songs...  such a beautiful melody.  


I sing it russian, too---  but since you actually speak russian..  I will just play it...lol


spacebo

 

[desherron]

hey  russia

that's cool

let me welcome you to piano street with a tune from russia--actually I think it was originally from the Ukraine..but I've only heard it sung in Russian

my arrangement of   Ochi Chornye in honor of our new member...  it is one of my all-time favorite songs...  such a beautiful melody. 


I sing it russian, too---  but since you actually speak russian..  I will just play it...lol


spacebo

 

Yes, Ochi Cherniye was written by Ukranian poet Eugeny Gryebyonka 

It's a wonderful romance and I like singing it so very much. Though some who heard me singing it say I do it too much in a gipsy manner, but I do not actually care 

Here is one more joyful tune. It is called "Wedding". Go play (or sing) it too - it's great!

[desherron]

Ah, and the honoring is very nice of you, dcstudio!

Spaceebo Vam     Bolishoye!  (Ehto)    Ochen'   priyatno!
(Thank     you      very much! (It is)     very      pleasing!)

[pianotv]

Looked at Bartok' "First Term at the Piano" and "Mikrokosmos" and Czerny op 599.

Could not make friends with "Mikrokosmos" while both, op.599 and, especially, "First Term at the Piano" sound just brilliant to me. Very inspiring!

Thanks to all of you so much!

Glad to hear it, good luck and have fun!

[dcstudio]

Yes, Ochi Cherniye was written by Ukranian poet Eugeny Gryebyonka  

It's a wonderful romance and I like singing it so very much. Though some who heard me singing it say I do it too much in a gipsy manner, but I do not actually care  

Here is one more joyful tune. It is called "Wedding". Go play (or sing) it too - it's great!

gypsy huh?  are you a Django Reinhardt fan? his version of Ochi Chornye is quite famous.   you mentioned you played guitar.  


Hey  Wedding is GREAT you were right...I love it!!---thank you so much for posting that link.... I will add that to my repertoire...  I love to surprise people by singing or speaking in their native language...  I remember songs better than phrases though...  especially Russian!!  

  I am child of the cold war so everything Russian is just fascinating...  we never got to see behind the iron curtain when we were young--you all were so mysterious to us...

[desherron]

Glad to hear it, good luck and have fun!

Thanks!

gypsy huh?  are you a Django Reinhardt fan? his version of Ochi Chornye is quite famous.   you mentioned you played guitar.   


Hey  Wedding is GREAT you were right...I love it!!---thank you so much for posting that link.... I will add that to my repertoire...  I love to surprise people by singing or speaking in their native language...  I remember songs better than phrases though...  especially Russian!!   

  I am child of the cold war so everything Russian is just fascinating...  we never got to see behind the iron curtain when we were young--you all were so mysterious to us...

Not Django's fan, but more of Tommy Emmanuel' one. And Mark Knopfler and Ritchie Blackmore's tunes are a huge pleasure and joy to play and listen to, either.

Though nowadays I am leaning more and more towards singing and using guitar solely as an accompanying instrument 

Would like to take a chance on "Bed Of Roses", "November Rain", "Hey Jude" and many Elton's tunes. I just will not get easy until doing these pieces at piano, you know!

And, yes, there were times of iron curtain... My parents met and planned me  So, those days people were doing allright here 

There was another side, though, off course. Have this georgeous song from the times of iron curtain. It is called "White Wings" and sang by fantastic Valery Obodzynsky, who's records were tabooed and thrown away from all state archives by communists because of Valery's "short-term behind the scene romance" with some daughter of communists party's big member  It was her intention to "hook up hot" Obodzynsky (who was married, by the way) backstage, still it was him who suffered from this ocasion. That is it.

I'm just get passioned with shivers while listening to it. Maybe it is just me, though  Take this minutes with voice that flows heavenly:

[dcstudio]

you like the west and we like the east...lol.. they are fine guitar players

seems we have a lot in common... I play guitar myself. 

here is me on guitar

this is my husband... he is the guitarist in the family.. we perform together often

and if you aren't sick of listening yet...  here is one of the both of us I am playing the piano...

[desherron]

you like the west and we like the east...lol.. they are fine guitar players

seems we have a lot in common... I play guitar myself.  

here is me on guitar

this is my husband... he is the guitarist in the family.. we perform together often

and if you aren't sick of listening yet...  here is one of the both of us I am playing the piano...

Great! Do not think one can ever get tired of listening that ^^^ kind of material  

Take 5 is one of my favorite jazz tunes, by the by

[polykaza]

i think my site can help you with this!!

[eldergeek]

Thanks for point us to your site. The language is amazing - not laughed that hard for a while

[dogperson]

i think my site can help you with this!!

I'm not finding a list of beginning repertoire or downladable music.  Was it missed?  What I saw was your one page musical journey and a link to your training method that can be purchased.   Unless something is missed, you need to be aware that advertising as a post is against forum rules.

[torandrekongelf]

I would skip Czerny and go for Bach. There is a book called Notebook to Anna Magdalena Bach. Play those and it will give you a solid basis to build upon.

[desherron]

I would skip Czerny and go for Bach. There is a book called Notebook to Anna Magdalena Bach. Play those and it will give you a solid basis to build upon.

Hmmmm... Why skipping Cherny, would you explain, please?

[adodd81802]

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[dcstudio]

When I say other pieces I am referring to the real flourish of the piano era that was mid-late 17th and through the 18th century.

mid to late 17th century?  the earliest existence of a piano was 1698 invented by Cristofori---it was an unknown instrument until an article was written in 1711.


that's the 18th century...  no piano music exists prior to that date,

Bach's music was written for the Clavichord -- he did not like the piano-- -at first-- but in 1747 he became an agent to sell pianos for a man named Silbermann; so...


Czerny was a student of Beethoven and his exercises are designed to promote virtuosity.   You would skip Czerny for Bach?  the two are completely unrelated.  Bach's music was not meant to be an exercise.....  what are you trying to say?  Anna Magdelena's notebook is on a par with the school of velocity... lol...really?

it sure sounded like you knew what you were talking about... 

so...someone made you play Czerny and you didn't like it?    so you figured Bach would give you the same skills? 

....    might want to get the facts straight before you start dishing out the expert opinions...lol

[adodd81802]

.

[themeandvariation]

-Glenn Gould is highly rated to have been one of the best Bach pianists, and he virtually never played anything else.

 Glenn Gould played And recorded a lot of other composers (though his approach may be similar to how he plays Bach)

[keypeg]

dcstudio, when I read your last comment, I had the impression that adodd had given very wrong information to the OP (esp. with words like "dishing out"), that he (she?) was saying to play Bach and not Czerny, and other things you mentioned.  In fact, adodd's first advice was this:

Maybe Czerny op 599.

free download from the internet to either print or view online. It starts with very easy pieces and progresses, not massively musical, but a bit more then most exercises and has finger numbers so you can be sure you are playing the pieces correctly.

Starts of very simple, so also helpful for sight reading, if you can get through the pieces easy enough you can always go back and see if you can sight read earlier pieces to measure your progress.

They are also quite short so you can feel motivated by accomplishing the pieces in a reasonable time.

Adodd recommended Czerny!  He gave specific reasoning for that choice.  I would be sincerely interested in your point by point consideration of each of these ideas as a teacher, which you would recommend, which you would not recommend, and why.  

It was another member who spoke out against Czerny, and favoured Bach

I would skip Czerny and go for Bach. There is a book called Notebook to Anna Magdalena Bach. Play those and it will give you a solid basis to build upon.

When the OP wondered about that advice, Adodd was open minded enough to consider what torandrekongelf's reasons might have been, even though it went against his own initial advice.  That is the post you responded to.

[Adodd's post as quoted: When I say other pieces I am referring to the real flourish of the piano era that was mid-late 17th and through the 18th century.
mid to late 17th century?  the earliest existence of a piano was 1698 invented by Cristofori---it was an unknown instrument until an article was written in 1711.....

I am thinking that Adodd had the same mix-up that I often do - I think 1700's and write 17th century.

I checked up on my facts.  From Wikki:
The Classical era, from about 1750 to 1820, established many of the norms of composition, presentation, and style, and was also when the piano became the predominant keyboard instrument.[/b]
I then looked up - at random - Haydn piano sonatas - the earliest is 1760.  Beethoven was born in 1770.  He composed for the piano.  Chopin - still the 1800's.  Given the quoted dates, I'm rather sure that the mid to late 1700's and the 1800's were meant.

... might want to get the facts straight before you start dishing out the expert opinions.

In recent posts I seem to be detecting an unhappiness about "non-experts" (non teachers?)  giving information or advice.  First - I'd go by what is given rather than who is giving it.  There are people calling themselves teachers who maybe shouldn't be, and others who don't teach but one really wishes they would.   But yes, an experienced knowledgeable teacher who takes the time to consider a question and give advice from experience, that is invaluable.  The OP asked for advice and help.  But when I look through the thread, I see no advice from any teacher anywhere in the thread.  It would be a pleasure to read your own advice on the matter.    Seriously.

[desherron]

Well, yesterday I was having a lot of fun pointing out chords to... Chopin's C# minor nocturne (op. posth.) intro. It was my very first serious shot to sight reading. I found out I'm awful bad at it  Just awful.

Still, it was really a joy to do! Now I know two things:
1. All C notes are situated symmetric to the two staffs if you look at them from side.
and 2. You should keep in mind those sharps written near clefs as they are acting not only on the lines and spaces they are written in, but over all notes.

Anyway, that is it!

 

[dcstudio]

I did misread your comment I apologize for being a smarta$$

forgive me but we have had some bad threads here lately



thought I had caught you with the dates...  but still -- around here if you make a mistake like that you kind of leave yourself open for smarta$$ery

not been a whole lot of advice here--I am a teacher--but I was more interested in discussing our interesting cultural aspects


spaceebo OP 

[keypeg]

I am a teacher--but I was more interested in discussing our interesting cultural aspects

That was quite clear.

not been a whole lot of advice here

I disagree.

[dcstudio]

That was quite clear.I disagree.

lol...  ahhh  guess I don't have to say it anymore huh?..    the lack of advice reference was directed at the guy who didn't know what century the piano was invented in...that kind of mistake doesn't reflect well on the person who is generously lending his piano expertise to the OP--why he made it is really not the point.

actually I thought I could help this one... he is a guitarist--they think somewhat differently.   Mozart is usually a good place for them to start.   they have no problem with the Alberti bass -- usually

If you are a classical guitarist and you read well--why not go with one of the crossover pieces like the spanish dances by Granados or if you are brave --the Lecuona Maleguena

[keypeg]

I don't know what to say.   Well, best wishes everyone.  The Net is the place for mis(sed)communication.

[adodd81802]

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[keypeg]

offering .... logical advice. Of which you can rest assure I won't be doing again.

That would be unfortunate, because the people who are new and asking for some first direction are the ones who would lose out.  It is always true that one must take any advice on the Internet with some caution, but I think most people know that.  Whether Czerny or Mozart with Alberti bass - test everything.

[dcstudio]

To be honest keypeg there's nothing you can say. As I previously stated "quoting" others is a pointless feature on a forum that's offering general advice.

Dcstudio I usually enjoy your comments and often take note of the advice you give as a claimed "teacher". However your recent abrupt and childish behaviour has only lead me to believe that there's possibly a very good reason you have so much time to sit on a forum insulting others then what is spent teaching. 

I have made no claims to offering "expertise" but simply logical advice. Of which you can rest assure I won't be doing again. Thanks

no you haven't and please don't take my comment personally...  I have just had a bad case of the blue meanies lately and though no fault of your own I misread your statement...it sounds stupid but I was sort of musically abused... it's no excuse.. it just makes me reactive when I shouldn't be because I perceive hostility sometimes where it doesn't exist.  I am also a lifer pianist who gets a little full of herself sometimes... 

my most humble apologies...      I am trying to work on improving that behavior just a bit...bear with me. 

[pianoplunker]

Hi there ivory&ebony lovers! Aloha from Russia!

I am starting with my piano practice now! Been a guitar player for years and now want to push some keys 

The question is what classical piece will be the most valuable in learning piano? What would you suggest to start with?

P.S.: Let us left alone fingers, chords and scales practicing - they are obviously a must!

Thank you!

In my experience, Minuet in G by JS Bach makes me feel the joy of playing music. A simple melody and counter-melody. Beautiful. Prelude in C is also a good one to know, but I think there is some pre-Bach things to know like the staffs, and why Every Good Boy Does Fine, maybe some chords, etc

[pianoplunker]

Hi there ivory&ebony lovers! Aloha from Russia!

I am starting with my piano practice now! Been a guitar player for years and now want to push some keys 

The question is what classical piece will be the most valuable in learning piano? What would you suggest to start with?

P.S.: Let us left alone fingers, chords and scales practicing - they are obviously a must!

Thank you!

In my experience, Minuet in G by JS Bach makes me feel the joy of playing music. A simple melody and counter-melody. Beautiful. Prelude in C is also a good one to know, but I think there is some pre-Bach things to know like the staffs, and why Every Good Boy Does Fine, maybe some chords, etc

[desherron]

In my experience, Minuet in G by JS Bach makes me feel the joy of playing music. A simple melody and counter-melody. Beautiful. Prelude in C is also a good one to know, but I think there is some pre-Bach things to know like the staffs, and why Every Good Boy Does Fine, maybe some chords, etc

Thank you! Will check 'em pieces out!

Was listening second Rach piano concert with Matsuev on grand yesterday. Just fantastic!

[keypeg]

desherron, what are your thoughts on addod's first post, where he not only recommends a particular opus of Czerny, but also states reasoning, and some approaches to it?

[desherron]

desherron, what are your thoughts on addod's first post, where he not only recommends a particular opus of Czerny, but also states reasoning, and some approaches to it?

I look at his post as at the perfect one.

Maybe Czerny - yes, particularly maybe. Things that work for someone may not work for another person.

His first post is just an example of intelligence and preciousness of approach recommendations.

Still, by the way, I expressed my thoughts about his first post already 

Thanks, adodd81802 ! This is exactly what I need!

[keypeg]

Sorry, I must have missed it.  Thanks for answering.