What do you think about Katsaris?

[pencilart3]

Look at 1:19, 3:25, and so on...

[mjames]

A great pianist.

Derail: Dude, you listen to a LOT of Chopin. I advise not listening to him so much because you might burn yourself up in the future. You'll probably live a long life, so try not to get sick of him at such an early stage (ie like Visitor HAHAHA). 

[visitor]

A great pianist.

Derail: Dude, you listen to a LOT of Chopin. I advise not listening to him so much because you might burn yourself up in the future. You'll probably live a long life, so try not to get sick of him at such an early stage (ie like Visitor HAHAHA).  

+1
I was excited when I saw the topic, theN sadly saw it's a Chopin video    so quickly lost enthusiasm. (that said, he's more interesting as a composer, ie exhibit a

sadly, and I guess fortunately, my intolerance for Fred (and Bobby S**) I think are factory installed.  W regard to Fc, it's not so much I got sick of him , so much that the music is tiresome/annoying after about 4 minutes. I think his mazurkas are the most interesting and tolerable, and at least there's some neat variety in his trio and cello sonata. But yeah other than that, I'll pass. There's more great music to listen to, learn, play, discover than there is time, I don't get the Chopin worship. Ok, he is important and one should understand the music, it's development and influence  on composition later , but beyond that, it's sort of like saying you like one series of movies/sequels, and would rather watch it (or rerunds of the same show) over and over again vs.  move on to other stuff, grow, expand , etc.

*as for Bobby, can't stand it after about 30 seconds.\

[glennross]

Katsaris is one of those pianists who started good at the beginning, but later on fell into the 'trap' of piano playing. Getting obsessed with the instrument, and the instrument only. The instruments capabilities, the bravoure which came with it in the second half of the 19th century.

All features which, for me, made this period from 1830-1885, anywere around that, to a sheer disaster.

[thalbergmad]

In my opinion he is comfortably the greatest pianist alive. He has the mechanics to play anything he wants, he takes tasteful liberties, creates wonderful transcriptions and does not seem to waste his time on the worthless trash of the 20th century that could be played equally as well by a spasticated octopus.

He leaves clowns like Bang Bang and the sleep inducing Hamelin way behind.

Thal

[pencilart3]

Oh well that's too bad. I hate him and don't worry I will never back down on any Chopin listening.

[thalbergmad]

Oh well that's too bad. I hate him and don't worry I will never back down on any Chopin listening.

You might do when you grow older. There is sometimes a vast gulf between what one likes at 15 and what one likes at 50.

Katsaris does a good job here in bringing some interest to a piece that is at best banal effeminate confetti. There is not a great deal one can do with it as it is impossible to polish a turd.

Thal

[ajlongspiano]

I personally think Hamelin is a very fine pianist with a lot of convincing ideas. Just check out his 4th ballade recording. Lang Lang definitely isn't a favorite of mine but his Mozart is pretty darn good! I think its pretty unnecessary to casually dismiss these people as second rate when they've worked very hard to achieve what they have. However, we all have a right to our own opinion! . Katsaris is a wonderful pianist and musician.

[pianoguy711]

Look at 1:19, 3:25, and so on...

What are we looking for? His facial expressions? What does that have to do with his playing?  

Katsaris does a good job here in bringing some interest to a piece that is at best banal effeminate confetti. There is not a great deal one can do with it as it is impossible to polish a turd.

Thal

Someone really doesn't like this Chopin sonata
If that sonata is a "turd" then his first sonata must be the absolute scum of the earth.  

[mjames]

You might do when you grow older. There is sometimes a vast gulf between what one likes at 15 and what one likes at 50.

Katsaris does a good job here in bringing some interest to a piece that is at best banal effeminate confetti. There is not a great deal one can do with it as it is impossible to polish a turd.

Thal

I get what you mean by effeminate, though it's not necessarily criticism and I understand not liking a certain genre of piano music. However, you're the same person that praised Chopin's rondo brillant op. 16, and you also love Thalberg.  

Aren't they essentially the same vein of piano music? In my eyes, the sonata's a more refined and mature style of the brillant style that the rondo op. 16 so heavily depends on. I just don't understand how you can praise other style brillant composers and then at the same time talk crap about pieces for being style brillant/effeminate.

You confuse me...

@Pencils
It doesn't matter how great a piece of music is...you will get bored of it if you listen to it too much. At the rate you're going, you'll end up like Thalberg. XD

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Katsaris is a fantastic pianist with technique of the highest order (check out his Beethoven-Liszt symphonies). He has one peculiar trait, which iirc occurs in the OP's Chopin video, namely an obsession with bringing out internal (usually middle) voices/lines that almost certainly aren't actually there in the first place.

[kypiano]

He leaves clowns like Bang Bang and the sleep inducing Hamelin way behind.

Thal

Amen.

[pencilart3]

At the rate you're going, you'll end up like Thalberg. XD

Oh NO! I am resolved to change!!

You might do when you grow older. There is sometimes a vast gulf between what one likes at 15 and what one likes at 50.

Yes, that's certainly true. I don't think I'll ever get sick of Chopin as a whole. When I feel I'm listening to ballades too much I just switch to etudes, too many of them and I go to nocturnes, then scherzi, mazurkas, concerti, etc... and by the time I've gone through all the music I'm ready for the ballades again!! haha

It doesn't matter how great a piece of music is...you will get bored of it if you listen to it too much.

Uh... I'm not entirely sure about that.... check the picture I attached ha ha ha still going strong after 10 years of it!!

[thalbergmad]

Aren't they essentially the same vein of piano music?

Not at all. There is a world of difference between this sonata movement and the far more adventurous and climatic Op.16. Thalberg's music is arguably closer to Chopin rather than Liszt, but Thalberg sometimes got angry and Chopin only mildly agitated.

Thal

[pencilart3]

Thalberg sometimes got angry and Chopin only mildly agitated.

What about preludes 16 and 24, etudes 10/4 and 25/11, and sections of ballades 1, 2 and 4?

Ha ha yes, Thalberg did get angry, even MAD...

[diomedes]

I was aware of his grand pianism and the 4th movement of the Chopin sonata but seeing that was doing nothing but giving me reason to worship him even more.

And As if that wasn't enough reason to watch it, the look on his face as he spotted a naked person in the audience was worth price of admission alone, to be sure.

If you have not heard his Beethoven- Liszt symphonies, drop what you're doing now and go listen to them.

[georgey]

I plan to do more listening.  The 3rd and 4th symphonies sounded great from what I heard.  I am familiar with the Scherbakov performances of the 9 symphonies.  How do rate Karsaris compared to Scherbakov performance of these works?  I have always admired the Scherbakov performance (Naxos label).  Thank you.

[pencilart3]

Oh boy. I may as well have come on to this site and said that Liadov was a no good idiot!

[outin]

Oh boy. I may as well have come on to this site and said that Liadov was a no good idiot!

I warn you not to do such a thing, mjames will be after you!

I do love Chopin, but I do also find some of his music a bit boring. Then again, his best pieces never get old as long as I can hear different interpretations. The Pollini etudes may be great, but after a while one really needs to hear fresh interpretations...

Besides always after too much Romantic stuff I simply NEED to listen to either some Baroque or something from the 20th century plinkers...

[pencilart3]

I warn you not to do such a thing, mjames will be after you!

Yeah, I know! I was saying it was a bad idea. haha!

The Pollini etudes may be great, but after a while one really needs to hear fresh interpretations...

yes, everyone seems to think that except for me

[outin]

yes, everyone seems to think that except for me

Well... You just need to spend a few more decades with them

[lostinidlewonder]

He is so good. Sometimes looking up helps you listen to the sound you are projecting in the room but I'm sure hes doing it mostly because he's cool ahah.

[pencilart3]

hes doing it mostly because he's cool ahah.

*he thinks he's cool

and he thinks he's too good to be playing tomfoolery like, say, chopin sonatas. Nobody went to too much work to write this, I'm just going to make funny faces throughout it and not step down to its level.

[thalbergmad]

What about preludes 16 and 24, etudes 10/4 and 25/11, and sections of ballades 1, 2 and 4?

Indeed, but it doesn't really last.

Thal

[outin]

Oh well that's too bad. I hate him and don't worry I will never back down on any Chopin listening.

I haven't seen that performance before... yes, he is one of the greats no doubt.

I think the pianists of the 19th century would have thought him rather reserved in his gestures, from most accounts it seems people expected to SEE some entertainment in addition to hearing the music

I didn't really get what it is that you don't like?

[pencilart3]

Indeed, but it doesn't really last.

Oh ok. Yeah, I guess, but he does get angry!

I didn't really get what it is that you don't like?

His demeanor. I know you are probably going to say that "it doesn't effect the music" but it does, at least for me. What's up with the random staccato notes thrown in every now and then to sound cool? What's up with looking away for as long as he can to impress people? What's up with making stupid faces as if he thinks the music isn't worthy of him?

[outin]

His demeanor. I know you are probably going to say that "it doesn't effect the music" but it does, at least for me. What's up with the random staccato notes thrown in every now and then to sound cool? What's up with looking away for as long as he can to impress people? What's up with making stupid faces as if he thinks the music isn't worthy of him?

I think your interpretation of why he does these things may be a bit off...

I look away (up) from the keyboard often and it has nothing to do with showing off (I have little to show off for). It just makes it easier to concentrate on the physical sensations and the sound. I doubt he is doing it just to impress either. I also cannot always help myself get excited about some spot in the music and add a little to the articulation.

Generally I always prefer calm and poised pianism, but if someone plays that good, then I would just close my eyes and not pay attention if something bothers me. And he is playing for live audience, not YT, so he knows not that much is seen by those he is playing to anyway.

He does not do what so many of the younger ones does, use overstated bodily gestures to make his playing more flamboyant and end up ruining the sound, but instead he lets his face speak freely. IMO His faces and gestures are much less annoying to me than some of the young pianists, because he clearly knows they are ridiculous and is just making fun of himself. And much of what he does still seems to come from his reactions to the music. I also make stupid faces because I cannot help it sometimes. I try not to, but if I was that good I probably wouldn't bother trying

And as I said before, if you hate him, you would have hated the pianists composers that wrote this music. Liszt probably was extreme, but look at some drawings of Chopin, the way he stares at the sky?

But of course if it does bother you it does and you are then right to hate him. There are some that bother me just as much and I cannot watch. But I think my generation is a bit different to yours, since we grew up listening to records and rarely saw videos, so I still concentrate more on what I hear than what I see.

[mjames]

I warn you not to do such a thing, mjames will be after you!

I do love Chopin, but I do also find some of his music a bit boring. Then again, his best pieces never get old as long as I can hear different interpretations. The Pollini etudes may be great, but after a while one really needs to hear fresh interpretations...

Though great, this is one of the drawbacks of recording technology. It is just simply much easier to get bored of music (even great!). This is one of my fears, which is exactly why I refrain from listening to composers/works I'm familiar with. Instead of doing that I would rather use these resources to get acquainted with obscure music/composers that I've never heard of. I am simply just too afraid of getting bored of the music I dearly love...

[pencilart3]

You know what mjames, I completely agree. The thing is, though, recording technology also allows us the chance to listen to the piece in the first place, without traveling hundreds of miles and paying admission fees

[diomedes]

I plan to do more listening.  The 3rd and 4th symphonies sounded great from what I heard.  I am familiar with the Scherbakov performances of the 9 symphonies.  How do rate Karsaris compared to Scherbakov performance of these works?  I have always admired the Scherbakov performance (Naxos label).  Thank you.

Sherbakov is beyond question, and any claim to his lack of playing that is free in nature is dismissed by his album of Strauss transcriptions, along with any questions to his pianism. But I think those are the main factors, and that's what really impresses with katsaris playing the symphonies. Its so fresh, vibrant, doesn't understand any single pianistic boundary. It's compelling. I remember liking the 2nd and the first movement of the 8th enormously.

Sherbakov, I listened to his Godowsky and much of it sounded mechanical, very light in pedal to the point of slight fault, but it's only an impression I had long ago. He's an exceptional pianist regardless.

[mjames]

You know what mjames, I completely agree. The thing is, though, recording technology also allows us the chance to listen to the piece in the first place, without traveling hundreds of miles and paying admission fees

"Though great.." as in recording technology is awesome. I completely understand about the advantages of recorded music. Don't worry lol

[pencilart3]

I think your interpretation of why he does these things may be a bit off...

Outin, I understand your point. I still don't like him, but we can "agree to disagree".

"Though great.." as in recording technology is awesome. I completely understand about the advantages of recorded music. Don't worry lol

Awesome still on good terms.

[kypiano]

Outin, I understand your point. I still don't like him, but we can "agree to disagree".

Awesome still on good terms.

Katsaris definitely is not on my list of "favorite pianists" (my list is too long to include him. My list is too PRESTIGIOUS to include him JK, but you get the idea )But still, you gotta admit, this statemeant by NO MEANS is wrong:

He leaves jokes like Lang Lang and the sleep-inducing Hamelin far behind

[pencilart3]

Yes! Down with bang bang and Hamelin!

[outin]

Hamelin never was my favorite but after hearing some live recordings of him I started to appreciate him more. It seems that while in many recordings he does seem a bit dry, he is not in performance of other music.

[pencilart3]

while in many recordings he does seem a bit dry,

A bit dry?! Sorry to pain you all with another chopin piece, but this is HIDEOUS.

[diomedes]

A bit dry?! Sorry to pain you all with another chopin piece, but this is HIDEOUS.

You should play it better for us, better playing than that is worth setting aside time for. I'll be there.

It's extraordinary playing. Maybe people prefer others, their zimerman or Pollinis nothing wrong with that. But I'd willingly listen to Hamelin play it and see what can be learned.

In any case that video linked to master classes that Katsaris has done, among others an hour long one on the Mendelssohn Variations sérieuses. I just need to find time to watch it.

[pencilart3]

You should play it better for us, better playing than that is worth setting aside time for. I'll be there.

Not sure I can play it better, but give me a few days I'll post some of the hardest parts in MP3s.

And in the meantime, just try to tell me you wouldn't rather listen to this.

[diomedes]

Not sure I can play it better, but give me a few days I'll post some of the hardest parts in MP3s.

And in the meantime, just try to tell me you wouldn't rather listen to this.

Hardest parts? This is Chopin, music, art in general, you're missing the point a little. That's ok, it doesn't really matter.

Krystian Zimerman? Well, who wouldn't want to listen to that? His Ballades are reference, if something is lesser than those it says very little if anything at all.

I'd also be a little uneasy stating that Hamelin is inferior to Zimerman, but that's just me.

[pencilart3]

Hardest parts? This is Chopin, music, art in general, you're missing the point a little.

Am I? OK. I'll play the easiest parts. I should have it uploaded in a few hours.

[rubinsteinmad]

Am I? OK. I'll play the easiest parts. I should have it uploaded in a few hours.

We've been waiting