Piano Forum



Enfant Terrible or Childishly Innocent? – Prokofiev’s Complete Piano Works Now on Piano Street
In our ongoing quest to provide you with a complete library of classical piano sheet music, the works of Sergey Prokofiev have been our most recent focus. As one of the most distinctive and original musical voices from the first half of the 20th century, Prokofiev has an obvious spot on the list of top piano composers. Welcome to the intense, humorous, and lyrical universe of his complete Sonatas, Concertos, character pieces, and transcriptions! Read more >>

Topic: Favorite Opus of Piano Music  (Read 6685 times)

Offline pencilart3

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2119
Re: Favorite Opus of Piano Music
Reply #150 on: December 10, 2015, 03:56:32 PM
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something(...150 posts).
-Plato


Was the 150 posts part in the original quote? As Abraham Lincoln said, "The bad thing about quotes on the internet is that they are hard to verify".
You might have seen one of my videos without knowing it was that nut from the forum
youtube.com/noahjohnson1810

Offline panolof

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
Re: Favorite Opus of Piano Music
Reply #151 on: December 10, 2015, 04:42:23 PM
Was the 150 posts part in the original quote? As Abraham Lincoln said, "The bad thing about quotes on the internet is that they are hard to verify".

I've gotta hand it to you, that was a good one 😂👌
Brackets were used to draw comparison to.

Offline rubinsteinmad

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1689
Re: Favorite Opus of Piano Music
Reply #152 on: December 10, 2015, 08:40:33 PM

I mean rubinsteinmad said Liszt's music is easier perform technically than Chopin's music(page one of this topic) ... Based on what?



I never said that! I was quoting the b!tch teacher (who could not handle Liszt!)

Offline rubinsteinmad

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1689
Re: Favorite Opus of Piano Music
Reply #153 on: December 10, 2015, 08:41:56 PM
lol..I'm totally with you here.
Even though you are one of the people the author is referencing to?

BTW, I agree as well, I've been very obnoxious about this (mainly because of personal animosity towards a certain b!tch teacher I used to learn from.)

Offline stoudemirestat

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 274
Re: Favorite Opus of Piano Music
Reply #154 on: December 10, 2015, 11:56:59 PM
I, too, prefer Liszt to Chopin. I also know many people who share with me my preference. My stance, as an opposition to much that has been written in this thread, is that Liszt wrote hundreds of pieces that I don't find superficial in the slightest, and a lot of his pieces than I do consider somewhat superficial were not meant to be anything but (and even Liszt considered many of them to be). I could list more 'serious' pieces by Liszt than Chopin's entire output, and more pieces I enjoy by Liszt than pieces Chopin wrote overall. I also have to say that my opinion on this matter seems to be based on a much more intimate knowledge of Liszt's output compared to many in this thread who don't seem to know much of his music and seem to have only a superficial acquaintance with some of his better known music.

Even if everyone in this thread knew every Liszt work intimately and still preferred Chopin, does this mean that they are right and I am wrong? Or could it mean that Liszt's music was written based on a different impulse that doesn't garner as much popularity? If this is the case, does popularity or more instances of enjoyment of the work in question, based on equal familiarity and equal capabilities of intellectual discernment within the listening individual, mean superiority? I personally like to think that in art this isn't the case: rather, I see it as there being something for everyone, and every composer having different ideas, ideals, and creative impulses.

The question that arises here, then, is whether the Bach Mass in B Minor greater than the trashiest pop song (for example)? Part of me says yes, but how can we truly say this based on what I have said above? I grapple with this question occasionally and have many vague ideas affirming the positive answer, but I won't discuss here. However, I ask the question that until I can come up with a completely assured and convincing answer, why do I/we need to consider one thing greater? Why does it matter? Why can't we just enjoy and discuss why we enjoy without making absolute value judgements?

Offline stoudemirestat

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 274
Re: Favorite Opus of Piano Music
Reply #155 on: December 10, 2015, 11:59:54 PM
accidental post

Offline panolof

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
Re: Favorite Opus of Piano Music
Reply #156 on: December 11, 2015, 05:33:40 AM
I, too, prefer Liszt to Chopin. I also know many people who share with me my preference. My stance, as an opposition to much that has been written in this thread, is that Liszt wrote hundreds of pieces that I don't find superficial in the slightest, and a lot of his pieces than I do consider somewhat superficial were not meant to be anything but (and even Liszt considered many of them to be). I could list more 'serious' pieces by Liszt than Chopin's entire output, and more pieces I enjoy by Liszt than pieces Chopin wrote overall. I also have to say that my opinion on this matter seems to be based on a much more intimate knowledge of Liszt's output compared to many in this thread who don't seem to know much of his music and seem to have only a superficial acquaintance with some of his better known music.

Even if everyone in this thread knew every Liszt work intimately and still preferred Chopin, does this mean that they are right and I am wrong? Or could it mean that Liszt's music was written based on a different impulse that doesn't garner as much popularity? If this is the case, does popularity or more instances of enjoyment of the work in question, based on equal familiarity and equal capabilities of intellectual discernment within the listening individual, mean superiority? I personally like to think that in art this isn't the case: rather, I see it as there being something for everyone, and every composer having different ideas, ideals, and creative impulses.

The question that arises here, then, is whether the Bach Mass in B Minor greater than the trashiest pop song (for example)? Part of me says yes, but how can we truly say this based on what I have said above? I grapple with this question occasionally and have many vague ideas affirming the positive answer, but I won't discuss here. However, I ask the question that until I can come up with a completely assured and convincing answer, why do I/we need to consider one thing greater? Why does it matter? Why can't we just enjoy and discuss why we enjoy without making absolute value judgements?

Could you send me a list of several pieces by Liszt to listen to. Which Hungarian rhapsodies are better and there was a 20 minute slow and less virtuosic piece by Liszt, rather famous - not sure if you have any idea of the name. I'd like to leave today with a better understanding of Liszt, not the same ignorant view.

Pano

Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change.
Stephen Hawking

Offline rubinsteinmad

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1689
Re: Favorite Opus of Piano Music
Reply #157 on: December 11, 2015, 11:06:02 PM
Could you send me a list of several pieces by Liszt to listen to. Which Hungarian rhapsodies are better and there was a 20 minute slow and less virtuosic piece by Liszt, rather famous - not sure if you have any idea of the name. I'd like to leave today with a better understanding of Liszt, not the same ignorant view.

Pano

Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change.
Stephen Hawking



For the 20-minute work, one is the Benediction de Dieu dans la Solitude. It is very difficult, but it lacks a lot of the passages, cadenzas, or finales found in the more showy works. There are many others that I cannot name, since I myself am not too familiar with Liszt's works.


But to be honest, there are very few 20-minute Chopin works, let alone works that lack showiness. The largest opus I can think of by Chopin is his Op. 58, and that certainly is full of virtuosity.

Offline stoudemirestat

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 274
Re: Favorite Opus of Piano Music
Reply #158 on: December 12, 2015, 01:52:21 AM
Could you send me a list of several pieces by Liszt to listen to. Which Hungarian rhapsodies are better and there was a 20 minute slow and less virtuosic piece by Liszt, rather famous - not sure if you have any idea of the name. I'd like to leave today with a better understanding of Liszt, not the same ignorant view.

Pano

Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change.
Stephen Hawking

  
First of all, you stated in your previous post that you find a lot of Liszt to be 'excessive.' Indeed, a lot of his music (not all, there is much that is just the opposite) is extremely 'romantic' in character and is often extremely virtuosic. This ambivalence toward him could simply be a matter of taste; however, from my experience there have been many pieces by him that I considered to be ''style over substance,' until I listened to them more and what initially seemed to be gratuitous virtuoso writing, I now found to be fantastic use of the piano to create soundscapes, whether purely musical of programmatic.

With that said, it is a bit hard to recommend anything considering I don't know what music of his you know. Also, are you only interested in solo piano music, or also his work in other genres? His choral music I find uneven, but with some real gems, as with his orchestral music...but recently I've discovered his songs (voice and piano) which are almost uniformly good and seem to be often on the level of his best piano music.

While I'm unsure, I'll just start by answering your questions, and then giving a few examples of solo piano music that I think would be a good start for someone fairly new to Liszt (which I'm not sure you are, so just correct me if needed):

First of all, Rubinsteinmad was probably correct by mentioning Benediction de Dieu dans la Solitude as the work you were thinking of (especially as he didn't write many other solo piano works of this length other than some operatic paraphrases/transcriptions), which is a wonderful work of great innovation in harmony and 'sound.' I recommend the Arrau recording:


Benediction is the third piece in the cycle Harmonies poétiques et religieuses. I have found over the years that this set is best when played in full, but some of the individual numbers I prefer (along with Benediction) are:

Andante Lagrimoso:


Funerailles:


Pensee des Morts:


Ave Maria:
(which is a transcription of a choral piece by Liszt:



As for the Hungarian Rhapsodies, I personally find them all intriguing and even the 'flashiest' ones to be enjoyable: one has to remember that a big part of why he wrote the rhapsodies was in order to imitate the style of the gypsy bands in Hungary, which included a lot of dazzling fiddle, cymbalom, and much improvisation/ornamentation. When seen in this context and listened to as being fun 'gypsy' works of great pianistic innovation and instrumental imitation, even the flashiest are a joy (and others use these qualities to great expressive effect, such as the 8th). If you're just looking for the most 'serious' of them (remembering that the standard formal structure of a HR is a slow section followed by a fast, which means the latter sections are often Liszt in 'joyous romp' mode, which you may enjoy more as you listen more), though, then some of my favourites in this regard are:

3:

5:

7:

8:

11:

12:

13:


And the late ones, which are more in the austere style of his late years (but still with some gypsy/improvisational elements, and use the 'slow-fast' structure):

16:

17:

18:


To be clear, though, I would also list such 'flashy' numbers as 2, 4, 9 as favourites.

More recommendations:

Années de pèlerinage: Each year is supposed to be performed in full, like the Harmonies Poetiques, but some preferred individual works:

Au Lac de Wallenstadt/Au bord d'une Source:


Vallee d'Obermann:


Le Mal du Pays:


Les Cloches de Geneve:


Sposalizio:


Sonetto 104:


Sonetto 123:


Dante Sonata:



(I didn't really like the above piece until I heard this performance)

Aux cyprès de la Villa d'Este I:


Aux cypres de la Villa d'Este II:


Les jeux d'eaux à la Villa d'Este:


Some more pieces:

Ballade No. 2:


Deux Legendes (bird-song in the first one, stormy waters in the second):


Piano Sonata:
,
,
,


Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen variations:


Ave Maria Die Glocken von Rom:


There are so many more I can give you, many I like as much as those above, but these are a good start I think. If you want more just ask.

Offline panolof

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
Re: Favorite Opus of Piano Music
Reply #159 on: December 12, 2015, 11:22:19 AM
 
First of all, you stated in your previous post that you find a lot of Liszt to be 'excessive.' Indeed, a lot of his music (not all, there is much that is just the opposite) is extremely 'romantic' in character and is often extremely virtuosic. This ambivalence toward him could simply be a matter of taste; however, from my experience there have been many pieces by him that I considered to be ''style over substance,' until I listened to them more and what initially seemed to be gratuitous virtuoso writing, I now found to be fantastic use of the piano to create soundscapes, whether purely musical of programmatic.

With that said, it is a bit hard to recommend anything considering I don't know what music of his you know. Also, are you only interested in solo piano music, or also his work in other genres? His choral music I find uneven, but with some real gems, as with his orchestral music...but recently I've discovered his songs (voice and piano) which are almost uniformly good and seem to be often on the level of his best piano music.

While I'm unsure, I'll just start by answering your questions, and then giving a few examples of solo piano music that I think would be a good start for someone fairly new to Liszt (which I'm not sure you are, so just correct me if needed):

First of all, Rubinsteinmad was probably correct by mentioning Benediction de Dieu dans la Solitude as the work you were thinking of (especially as he didn't write many other solo piano works of this length other than some operatic paraphrases/transcriptions), which is a wonderful work of great innovation in harmony and 'sound.' I recommend the Arrau recording:


Benediction is the third piece in the cycle Harmonies poétiques et religieuses. I have found over the years that this set is best when played in full, but some of the individual numbers I prefer (along with Benediction) are:

Andante Lagrimoso:


Funerailles:


Pensee des Morts:


Ave Maria:
(which is a transcription of a choral piece by Liszt:



As for the Hungarian Rhapsodies, I personally find them all intriguing and even the 'flashiest' ones to be enjoyable: one has to remember that a big part of why he wrote the rhapsodies was in order to imitate the style of the gypsy bands in Hungary, which included a lot of dazzling fiddle, cymbalom, and much improvisation/ornamentation. When seen in this context and listened to as being fun 'gypsy' works of great pianistic innovation and instrumental imitation, even the flashiest are a joy (and others use these qualities to great expressive effect, such as the 8th). If you're just looking for the most 'serious' of them (remembering that the standard formal structure of a HR is a slow section followed by a fast, which means the latter sections are often Liszt in 'joyous romp' mode, which you may enjoy more as you listen more), though, then some of my favourites in this regard are:

3:

5:

7:

8:

11:

12:

13:


And the late ones, which are more in the austere style of his late years (but still with some gypsy/improvisational elements, and use the 'slow-fast' structure):

16:

17:

18:


To be clear, though, I would also list such 'flashy' numbers as 2, 4, 9 as favourites.

More recommendations:

Années de pèlerinage: Each year is supposed to be performed in full, like the Harmonies Poetiques, but some preferred individual works:

Au Lac de Wallenstadt/Au bord d'une Source:


Vallee d'Obermann:


Le Mal du Pays:


Les Cloches de Geneve:


Sposalizio:


Sonetto 104:


Sonetto 123:


Dante Sonata:



(I didn't really like the above piece until I heard this performance)

Aux cyprès de la Villa d'Este I:


Aux cypres de la Villa d'Este II:


Les jeux d'eaux à la Villa d'Este:


Some more pieces:

Ballade No. 2:


Deux Legendes (bird-song in the first one, stormy waters in the second):


Piano Sonata:
,
,
,


Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen variations:


Ave Maria Die Glocken von Rom:


There are so many more I can give you, many I like as much as those above, but these are a good start I think. If you want more just ask.

Firstly, thank you. This post shows that these forums haven't dried up. There is still great potential in store for these forums. More than any other forum on the internet, I reckon.

I've had three in depth analyses in the last 3 days. A huge thank you to the three. I'm taking a break will look at everything in depth and will come back to you in future stoudemirestat.

My favorite composer is Chopin, and I sadly know next to nothing about him and his music, the step I'm about to take is because of this forum, so thank you.

I will chat hopefully in the next week or two with you on Liszt.

Have a great christmas, and new year!
Stoudemirestat

Pano
For more information about this topic, click search below!
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert