Playing chords - how long to hold.

[happyhacker]

my teacher has given me "Take the A Train" to practice LH chords. I have to play two beats per measure. Should I hold each chord for the full 1/2 note or for a much shorter time? The idea is to learn each chord, inversion appropriate and to keep time with the Arab score.

[adodd81802]

Hi Happy,

Firstly I'd always suggest posting the score, I've never heard of this piece and so without prior knowledge your question wouldn't make any sense.

2ndly I'm not personally understanding the question. you're only playing 2 beats per measure instead of 4? surely then you have to double the speed of everything so in the first bar, the 1/2 beat rest becomes a 1/4, the first 1 1/2 chord becomes a 3/4 chord and the 2 beat becomes a 1 (1/4 + 3/4 + 1 = 2)

Althought you may as well just play the 4/4 and speed up the tempo - if you have a metronome, you'll accomplish the same thing and not rack your brains about the beats.

Maybe I have misunderstood, I am also not sure what your reference is to "Arab score" again I have no prior knowledge of this piece before googling it 30 seconds ago!

[happyhacker]

I have added a PDF of the piece. I have to play the fake parts (chords written on top of score). Thanks.

[jacobsterling]

Hi happycacker,

Could you explain once more the problems you're encountering? Where are the LH chords in the pdf. I certainly don't see them. It will be easier to help you if you explain once more and a little bit clearer if you can.

BW,
Jacob

[happyhacker]

Sorry, I have put it together in MuseScore and forgot to export this version as PDF. Attached again with fake part shown.

[jacobsterling]

Sorry, I have put it together in MuseScore and forgot to export this version as PDF. Attached again with fake part shown.

I'm sorry, but I still don't understand what you're trying to ask really.

[happyhacker]

The fist "phrase" of the score (I mean first 4 measures) shows chords G and A7. If I consider the tempo mark 2/2 then I have to play the G chord twice per measure. I am wondering if I should hold the chord for the full length of the 1/2 note or shorter or do something else with it? I suppose I am not sure what the accepted way of playing along with the fake method is. Thanks for staying with me. I assume you saw the score OK with the chords in place.

[jacobsterling]

The fist "phrase" of the score (I mean first 4 measures) shows chords G and A7. If I consider the tempo mark 2/2 then I have to play the G chord twice per measure. I am wondering if I should hold the chord for the full length of the 1/2 note or shorter or do something else with it? I suppose I am not sure what the accepted way of playing along with the fake method is. Thanks for staying with me. I assume you saw the score OK with the chords in place.

Look, I am not trying to piss anyone off or something, but I don't know what you mean by fake method and I see the chord symbols but in LH it goes like this: |G-D-B-D|G-qr-hr|A;G-Dsharp-E|G-F-E-qr|. So what do you mean with playing chords?

[todane]

If I understand correctly, you teacher wanted you to hold each chord for 1/2 note long and use inversion of the chord if it repeats.  He/she wanted you to get familiar with the chords, inversion, and chord progression.  

[adodd81802]

Glad I wasn't the only one that didn't get this ^^

[happyhacker]

Todane, yes, I tend to use the inversion(s) to get the finger changes between the chords minimal but that sometimes makes for a "muddy" sound in the bass. Not sure what you mean by using the inversion if it repeats. Do you mean e.g. in the first measure change the inversion of the G chord?

JacobSterling, note I have only been playing for 8 months now so complete beginner. I see the "fake" as playing the chords shown above the treble bar. I believe also that its up to the player to "improvise" on those chords like playing the bass bar which in fact I thing starts off with an arpeggiated G chord. I have not tried this yet so just play the chords as show. I suppose at the end of the day one could play them 4 to a bar or as here (properly?) 2 to a bar or even just hold them down until the next chord but some will fade to far and be just left with the RH melody.

PS to webmaster the shortcut alt+s does not seem to work on a MacBook like suggested and CMD+s brings up a Save page window.

[happyhacker]

Glad I wasn't the only one that didn't get this ^^

My apologies, obviously I did not express myself properly in the first place. Bear with, bear with!

[todane]

Todane, yes, I tend to use the inversion(s) to get the finger changes between the chords minimal but that sometimes makes for a "muddy" sound in the bass. Not sure what you mean by using the inversion if it repeats. Do you mean e.g. in the first measure change the inversion of the G chord?

You heard the "muddy" sound, maybe because you played two low. 

For example, for the first two measures, they are all G chord. If play 1/2 note long each time, you will have to play the G chord 4 times.  Use different inversions of the G chord will give some variety.

When you change to a different chord, you can also use inversion to minimize the movement of fingers.

I'm trying to understand and follow what your teacher wanted you to do, but there are no strict rules about how to fake playing, I think.  It should all up to your ears.  Just like decorating a Christmas tree, you can do whatever you want, as long as it makes the tree look beautiful. 

I'm a beginner too, so, guys, please correct me, if I'm wrong. Thanks.

[happyhacker]

Thanks, sorted.

[dcstudio]

I am a jazzer and I play this one.

she is teaching you to "comp"--that is what it's called when a rhythm section player plays chord tones while another instrument has the melody or is soloing.

when you analyze jazz to this degree -- like exactly how long should I hold these--you are defeating the purpose of playing this kind of music...lol.

this is not Beethoven... those chords are really only suggestions -- you can play them, play part of them, more of them, or play nothing at all... it's up to you.  I generally don't hold the chords I play in support--in other words--when I am comping on this particular standard I tend to be light and bouncy.   

btw--playing the chord in root position and then inverting it when it repeats is a great exercise!

LISTEN

   -- this is the original Duke Ellington version...a classic--a standard among standards...performed by the composer and his orchestra...  there are even vocals on this one...

now listen to the great Oscar Peterson play this... he has his own take.   Listen to what he's doing with his left hand... how percussive yet never overpowering his comping is.   This is what your teacher is trying to teach you

ENJOY

[indianajo]

Please, here is a request for a free lesson not involving video.
What is he HappyH doing? playing two inversions of the same chord in one measure? Is that what comping is?
I can't see videos.
Firefox reports my version of shockwave will be hacked and blocks it  The new version I downloaded from adobe won't install.
A whole new operating system, Unbuntu.com reports I need to buy a newer computer. That is not available in my price range at this time.
I play Take the A-train too, but a worked out arrangement from Hanson House.  I'd like to do something modern to Autumn Leaves, which I worked out the chords to,  but am a bit clueless.  In a year I could transcribe the Roger Williams arrangement off the LP, then learn it, but that style has been done already. I hope to sing  a couple of versus then do something interesting on piano in between for a break.   
As for lessons,  jazz player in town who is mildly famous for the high tone hotel he plays in; I don't like his style.  The lady he played with on television, whose style I like, she lives LA now.  The Ellington specialist who moved here from NYC; he was recorded on TV in 1980, he is probably deceased. 

[dcstudio]

Please, here is a request for a free lesson not involving video.
What is he HappyH doing? playing two inversions of the same chord in one measure? Is that what comping is?
I can't see videos.
Firefox reports my version of shockwave will be hacked and blocks it  The new version I downloaded from adobe won't install.
A whole new operating system, Unbuntu.com reports I need to buy a newer computer. That is not available in my price range at this time.
I play Take the A-train too, but a worked out arrangement from Hanson House.  I'd like to do something modern to Autumn Leaves, which I worked out the chords to,  but am a bit clueless.  In a year I could transcribe the Roger Williams arrangement off the LP, then learn it, but that style has been done already. I hope to sing  a couple of versus then do something interesting on piano in between for a break.  
As for lessons,  jazz player in town who is mildly famous for the high tone hotel he plays in; I don't like his style.  The lady he played with on television, whose style I like, she lives LA now.  The Ellington specialist who moved here from NYC; he was recorded on TV in 1980, he is probably deceased.  

comping is "complimenting" the soloist or the band.   The chord symbols written on top of the treble clef--be they guitar grids or letters are put there for this purpose.   Since the soloist may or may not outline the chord progression it is up to the pianist and the guitarist to interject missing tones--such as the 3rd and the 7th into the mix so that the song still sounds somewhat logical and the chord progression can be followed.   In progressive jazz pianists tend to substitute or borrow chords from other keys, add extensions and use very wide "airy" chord voicings--while in swing and bop comping is usually more sporadic and very rhythmic. A good pianist will listen to what extensions and rhythms are being used by the soloist and "cater" his comping to be directly supportive of it.

the exercise he is doing teaches two things..

1.  generally you will comp twice a measure
2.  there are many different ways to play the same chord.  

did I answer your question? lol.

just started teaching again last week after a 3 year hiatus...  I may be a little rusty on clear and concise responses...
Autumn Leaves...another classic   send me what you have and I would be happy to help.  For God
s sakes don't play the Roger Williams... that the most uncool version ever...lol.

Singing and playing is great...  don't play the melody just "comp" and sing along.  Play a whole note or half note bassline with your LH the chords (without the root!) in your right hand and sing.  After you go through the form once... think of Roger Williams and just play the form again with all that pompous notey glory...that's your solo section..sing the form again with just the chords...slow down for the last... "but I miss you most of all my darling.....big ritardando...when Autumn Leaves (insert arpeggio here)...start to fall--ascending arpeggio and end with a big extended tonic slow descending arpeggio.   

best of luck

[indianajo]

Okay, thanks, a great lesson.
I lean more to "swing" or "bop" rather than post Coleman Hawkins (progressive?) Jazz.  Some black lady pianist from NYC on a World Channel biography who died 1967 - she is just my style. She kind of starved because her style wasn't the new style.  I've got an Ohio river valley accent though - and I'm a baritone.  I'm keeping the accent, unless I fake north Florida to do L. Skynyrd.  Even educated blacks in this area have this accent.  
I went and saw Count Basie in person at Houston Colliseum I liked him so much. I loved Ellington but could never get to Dallas  to see him.    I've got to learn to do swing without a 16 piece band behind me.  
I guess I've got to figure out what these chords are to Autumn Leaves, and write them down.  If you don't know the names you can't play inversions, can you?  Might help me remember them better, too.  

[dcstudio]

I am resisting the urge to write them out for you...  it's best if you figure them out on your own. 

[indianajo]

Okay Autumn Leaves melody starts on C.  I play a first inversion on downbeat,  descending inversion on every trailing half note.
Ab, Ab, Bb, Eb, Eb, Ddim, G7, Cm, Cm
second line,
Ab, Ab, Bb Eb G, Cm
third line G, G, Cm Cm Bb, F, Cm
Last line Bm7 G Cm Cm Bb, G7 Cm
I tried to look the lyrics up on allthelyrics.com but all they have is other songs with the title. Johnnie Mercer's lawyers are still too good. It never made the fake books I've got, either.   I've got the Tony Bennett version and the Jackie Gleason versions on LP, but all the amps are broken now.  hifi amp repair come later in the fall. 
Oh, BTW, Roger Williams is impressive, but he's not me. 

[dcstudio]

great job... don't forget to add the maj 7...

while you are singing you can play this very freely...  play a chord sing a line (maybe a bass note underneath for support...rubato all you want.   Concentrate on playing the 3rd and the 7th with your right hand and play the root then the 5th as a bassline.   Less is  more when you are singing.  Something has to be on autopilot...and for me it's the piano..which is as it should be.  Don't step on your own voice by being all notey underneath.

once you sing the form then you can do the old "and a 1 2 3 4" and pick up the tempo to a nice moderate swing..  you can play the head again then solo... or just solo...  then when you get to the G7 after you are done ....big ritardando back to the original tempo...sing the form again...repeat the last 4 bars with just the piano and be all showy then end with an arpeggio on Db 7 and step down to a Cminor chord....  roll your chord and voice the 9th (d) on top.   the end. you will sound all jazzy and everything

[dcstudio]

I forgot I had this...

my version of Autumn Leaves

just so you know I am not talking out my arse.