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Topic: What do you think of Bach's music.  (Read 2124 times)

Offline jacobsterling

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What do you think of Bach's music.
on: September 14, 2015, 07:56:02 PM
Hey everyone,

Just wondered what others on this forum thought about Bach's music (not only his keyboard music), since I think it's my favorite composers.

Please share your thoughts!

Jacob

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #1 on: September 14, 2015, 07:59:09 PM
Hey everyone,

Just wondered what others on this forum thought about Bach's music (not only his keyboard music), since I think it's my favorite composers.

Please share your thoughts!

Jacob
His religious works are great. His vernacular works I hate.

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #2 on: September 14, 2015, 08:00:14 PM
His religious works are great. His vernacular works I hate.
Except for the Partitas; the Concerto BWV 1056; the Italian Thing; and the Flute Sonatas and the Bradenburg Things and the Trancriptions

Offline jacobsterling

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #3 on: September 14, 2015, 08:01:53 PM
His religious works are great. His vernacular works I hate.

Do you include the St. Matthew-Passion under his vernacular works?

Italian thing means 'Italian Concerto, BWV 971'?

Offline kevonthegreatpianist

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #4 on: September 15, 2015, 05:11:11 AM
terrible. listen to scarlatti
I made an account and hadn't used it in a year. Welcome back, kevon.

Offline jacobsterling

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #5 on: September 15, 2015, 07:51:28 AM
terrible. listen to scarlatti

Yes, I love Scarlatti too. And do you have a reason why you think Bach's music is terrible?

Offline josh93248

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #6 on: September 15, 2015, 08:07:32 AM
I am quite a fan of Bach, Mostly for the keyboard but I have sampled many of his other kinds of works (One should say sampled when talking about such a huge output) and pretty much always enjoyed it and found the standard to be very high.

Though I don't believe in the near cult-like status he has achieved which I feel is actually harmful to him and music in general. I also think his writing ability was limited in the fact he did not write with dynamics in mind which to me is a crucial element of music.

To me the most important question regarding his music is not "How would Bach have wished it in his own time?" As many people seem to think but rather:

"How should we play Bach IN THE PRESENT?"

The shift of focus to this question could indeed see Bach find a wider audience rather than catering to the inbred elitist one he now has. (Not to insult ALL Bach fans but you must know what I am getting at here...)
Care to see my playing?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBqAtDI8LYOZ2ZzvEwRln7A/videos

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Offline ahinton

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #7 on: September 15, 2015, 08:24:21 AM
The composer Mauricio Kagel famously said "Es mag sein, dass nicht alle Musiker an Gött glauben, an Bach jedoch alle" (perhaps not all musicians believe in God, but all of them believe in Bach).

Case closed.

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline josh93248

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #8 on: September 15, 2015, 08:27:35 AM
The composer Mauricio Kagel famously said "Es mag sein, dass nicht alle Musiker an Gött glauben, an Bach jedoch alle" (perhaps not all musicians believe in God, but all of them believe in Bach).

Case closed.

Best,

Alistair

Interesting that you say that immediately after my comments to the effect that the excessive worship Bach receives is harmful...
Care to see my playing?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBqAtDI8LYOZ2ZzvEwRln7A/videos

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Offline jacobsterling

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #9 on: September 15, 2015, 09:26:48 AM
I am quite a fan of Bach, Mostly for the keyboard but I have sampled many of his other kinds of works (One should say sampled when talking about such a huge output) and pretty much always enjoyed it and found the standard to be very high.

Though I don't believe in the near cult-like status he has achieved which I feel is actually harmful to him and music in general. I also think his writing ability was limited in the fact he did not write with dynamics in mind which to me is a crucial element of music.

To me the most important question regarding his music is not "How would Bach have wished it in his own time?" As many people seem to think but rather:

"How should we play Bach IN THE PRESENT?"

The shift of focus to this question could indeed see Bach find a wider audience rather than catering to the inbred elitist one he now has. (Not to insult ALL Bach fans but you must know what I am getting at here...)

Indeed, except for the case Glenn Gould, you could indeed rather say 'sampled'. And I agree, to a certain extent with you. However, I think it is a combination of both what Bach wished his music to sound and how we should play Bach nowadays.

A lot of people always say that they don't like the idea that all of Bach's keyboard music is nowadays mostly played on an instrument for which is was not in fact written. I'm not inclined to apologize for the fact that I indeed do play Bach on the piano. I really think that the piano does offer a great many resources which are entirely appropriately applicable to the music of Bach, and that it offers some which are very inapropriate. So it really becomes a question, imo, of adapting/using those things which really work within the perimeters of the music.

There are, of course, two very contrasting arguments, one of which is that if Bach would have known the piano, he would have certainly used the piano. And I'm sury he indeed would have used it, I mean, he was a very practical man in the most ways we know. In fact, a few years before he died, he saw a 'Silbermann' piano, and he had some good things to say about it.

However, the other argument is that Bach didn't know the piano as we know it today, and he didn't think in terms of it's capabilities, and here I think is were most people go wrong. Because if one believes that argument, one also believes that Bach cared very deeply about the specific sonorities he used when writing his music. Almost as if he was a slave from the instrument that he wrote for, and I just don't think this is true. There ar just far too many examples that proof the contrary.

For example. The Violin Concerto in E Major, a wonderfully strong beginning. But it works fine too for the keyboard in D Major. And the other movements of that concerto also turned up in the cantatas, where they're even accompanied by voice and the also turned up on the organ.

So, in short: I don't think if Bach would have known the piano he would have turned himself into an 18th-century Alexander Scriabin. But that's just my opinion.

I also don't think Bach's keyboard music needs to much dynamics, and certainly not those written in editions like Schirmer or Peters. I rather use Henle and already have all of Bach's keyboard music piled up on the Henle side of my music books closet.

Offline josh93248

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #10 on: September 15, 2015, 10:29:40 AM
Hmmm I can mostly understand your position Jacob, I don't believe I can win many over to my somewhat radical take on Bach but I would definitely beg to differ on the matter of dynamics (also tempo, but let's talk dynamics for now, since you raised it.)

Firstly I'd like to say that I try to treat Bach carefully but still freely, I see some of the original intention behind his pieces (I would never pretend to comprehend all of it) and I try to consider it but I also would equally consider doing the opposite or an alternative as well.

Why? For one, I believe that good historically informed and conservative recordings of Bach already exist so I see no reason to add another one to the mix with only slight differences. This is part of my philosophy of Music, that we should keep the old alive by constantly reinvigorating it with new ideas and approaches rather than endlessly repeating ourselves with slight variations.

Also, to me, Bach presents itself as excellent fundamental musical material, but without tempos and dynamics and other expressive instructions it is almost incomplete in a certain sense. So I try and finish the process with my own creativity and style.

Finally, it is much more enjoyable to me to play his music in a creative way, not bound by convention, I do not seek the approval of others though I am happy to argue my case for what I do. I wouldn't want to play the piano at all if I did not have the freedom to play how I want.

Now to be specific about dynamics, I am constantly seeing little inspirations for dynamic ideas within his music so I make the most of them, sometimes I project my own ideas onto his works but is this so bad? Bach himself would have played or arranged etc. the works of other composers and I would hardly expect him to add nothing to the material. The tradition of playing with the works of others goes back far longer than the "tradition" of playing things "traditionally" If you know what I mean.

Oh and by the Way, I'm a Henle guy all the way, especially when it comes to Bach, but perhaps for different reasons... Well, mostly because I don't want to be distracted by their ideas for dynamics and instead focus on my own.

They may not be to your taste but if you would like to you can check out the Bach I've posted on my channel to see what I do in practice.
Care to see my playing?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBqAtDI8LYOZ2ZzvEwRln7A/videos

I Also offer FREE PIANO LESSONS over Skype. Those who want to know more, feel free to PM me.

Offline jacobsterling

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #11 on: September 15, 2015, 10:57:02 AM
Hmmm I can mostly understand your position Jacob, I don't believe I can win many over to my somewhat radical take on Bach but I would definitely beg to differ on the matter of dynamics (also tempo, but let's talk dynamics for now, since you raised it.)

Firstly I'd like to say that I try to treat Bach carefully but still freely, I see some of the original intention behind his pieces (I would never pretend to comprehend all of it) and I try to consider it but I also would equally consider doing the opposite or an alternative as well.

Why? For one, I believe that good historically informed and conservative recordings of Bach already exist so I see no reason to add another one to the mix with only slight differences. This is part of my philosophy of Music, that we should keep the old alive by constantly reinvigorating it with new ideas and approaches rather than endlessly repeating ourselves with slight variations.

Also, to me, Bach presents itself as excellent fundamental musical material, but without tempos and dynamics and other expressive instructions it is almost incomplete in a certain sense. So I try and finish the process with my own creativity and style.

Finally, it is much more enjoyable to me to play his music in a creative way, not bound by convention, I do not seek the approval of others though I am happy to argue my case for what I do. I wouldn't want to play the piano at all if I did not have the freedom to play how I want.

Now to be specific about dynamics, I am constantly seeing little inspirations for dynamic ideas within his music so I make the most of them, sometimes I project my own ideas onto his works but is this so bad? Bach himself would have played or arranged etc. the works of other composers and I would hardly expect him to add nothing to the material. The tradition of playing with the works of others goes back far longer than the "tradition" of playing things "traditionally" If you know what I mean.

Oh and by the Way, I'm a Henle guy all the way, especially when it comes to Bach, but perhaps for different reasons... Well, mostly because I don't want to be distracted by their ideas for dynamics and instead focus on my own.

They may not be to your taste but if you would like to you can check out the Bach I've posted on my channel to see what I do in practice.

Yes, I have browsed through your channel a little bit and your playing is nice. However, I think you kinda misunderstood me here. If there is anyone on this forum (apart from you) that is an adversary of conservative Bach recordings and conservative recordings overall, it has got to be me.

Anyway, I hate the idea that most of those recordings and in general, the tradition of Bach playing has changed everything he believed in so radically, mostly by adding all sorts of dynamics, rubato's and that sort of thing. Those are all things Bach didn't believed in, he didn't want them in his keyboard music, and therefore I will not add them too much.

The reason why Bach rarely added dynamics and tempo marks is, I think, because he lived in a period where performers didn't exist on their own. If you wanted to become a performer, you simply had to learn the art of composing too because you were expected to add your own embellishments to the music. This is something that became less so with the music of Mozart and Beethoven, who mostly added their own ideas of such dynamics or tempo's.

So, therefore I always add my own ornamentation, mind you, not too much of dynamics/rubato's. That's also because I think there always has too be some kind of consistency of tempo in Bach's music. You know, his music goes to sleep over rubato's I think. It is not written for those kind of musical tricks which are sometimes even used to cover up a difficult part.

Offline torandrekongelf

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #12 on: September 15, 2015, 11:12:04 AM
I believe Bach is THE greatest composer of all the time. Not only by the cheer genuis and extreme craftmanship he possessed or the amazing ability to compose the most amazing music with high intensity. Almost all his keyboard music was written during a timespan from 1720-1725 (with some exceptions)

I would go so far as to believe that Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven would not be as talented composers as they are were without Bachs influence. All of these composers learned many things about composition just by playing and understanding Bachs music. He is the father of our western music as we know it.

I think Bach is different from other composers in a way that his music always teaches us and shows us something that is greater than humanity itself. The only other place I get this feeling is from the later music of Beethoven.

And I am not talking about God or anything like that. I am not a religious person and Bach was a very religious person. But in every note composed by Bach there is a something "divine" (for a lack over a better term) behind every note. And when during many phrases in Bachs pieces I get the feel of total hypnosis and almost dangerous to listen while driving a car.

When it comes to playing Bach I think we have pretty strong evidence for what instrument we play Bach on doesnt really matter. He made arrangements for alot of his music for other instruments.

As Glenn Gould say there is no reason to believe that Bach thought it was very important what kind of color of sound and sonority certain instruments would give to his music. He was much more interested in harmonies and the structure of the music.

I do however listen to alot of clavichord and harpsicord records of his music. And I think we should bury the idea that people who listen or play Bach on old instruments do this out of a dogma that this is how it must be performed. I think mostly people who play it on old instruments just like the sound of old instruments. I personally think Bach music is so great it should be played by all instruments that are technically capable of performing it. That includes new and old instruments or even brass-quartets of his 4 voices fugues etc.

I think if Bach was present today I think he would have be delighted to hear his music performed on any modern instrument. There is no reason to believe otherwise.

In terms of dynamics I think its false to say that these things didnt happen in Bachs time. On organs and harpsichords there would be things you could do to make dynamic changes. Using stops on organs for different manuals with lower sound and switch manuals on harpsichords was a way to change dynamics. But of course there wasnt possible to do any crescendos or diminuendos. So when applying dynamics to Bachs music you should think in terms of loud parts and soft parts.

Offline josh93248

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #13 on: September 15, 2015, 11:19:26 AM
Yes, I have browsed through your channel a little bit and your playing is nice. However, I think you kinda misunderstood me here. If there is anyone on this forum (apart from you) that is an adversary of conservative Bach recordings and conservative recordings overall, it has got to be me.

Anyway, I hate the idea that most of those recordings and in general, the tradition of Bach playing has changed everything he believed in so radically, mostly by adding all sorts of dynamics, rubato's and that sort of thing. Those are all things Bach didn't believed in, he didn't want them in his keyboard music, and therefore I will not add them too much.

The reason why Bach rarely added dynamics and tempo marks is, I think, because he lived in a period where performers didn't exist on their own. If you wanted to become a performer, you simply had to learn the art of composing too because you were expected to add your own embellishments to the music. This is something that became less so with the music of Mozart and Beethoven, who mostly added their own ideas of such dynamics or tempo's.

So, therefore I always add my own ornamentation, mind you, not too much of dynamics/rubato's. That's also because I think there always has too be some kind of consistency of tempo in Bach's music. You know, his music goes to sleep over rubato's I think. It is not written for those kind of musical tricks which are sometimes even used to cover up a difficult part.


Perhaps I assumed too much. Anyway Perhaps we will just have to agree to see things differently. To me, the biggest problem with Bach is that it comes across cold and academic to play it the way you believe Bach would have wanted. I remember a time I didn't particularly like Bach and it was because of the style of performances his works are typically done in it was realising I could do whatever I wanted with his material that started me on the path to enjoying his work. I feel that by having more free and varied interpretations of his works we can expand his audience and increase the benefits offered by his music. I have seen first hand people reacting to less academic versions of Bach and seen it make them realise what they might get out of his music, surely that's worth exploring?

I don't doubt that he would probably want not that much in the way of dynamic and tempo embellishments but does that actually matter? Doesn't it matter far more what *I* a living person want to do? Or what others are going to get the most out of?

To make one other point clear I don't argue in favour of abandoning the playing of Bach in the ways you prefer, more that people accept and stop arguing against and stifling all other versions of Bach so self-righteously (which is not what you are doing but I have seen it done) I want there to be peaceful coexistence between two polar opposites and everything in between.

Finally let me put this to you, a kind of economic argument if you will. Let's say I'm more or less wrong and most people prefer Bach played traditionally but SOME do prefer my version of Bach. Shouldn't I satisfy that demographic? Doesn't that mean more people are satisfied overall considering that there are already many traditional Bach recordings and players?
Care to see my playing?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBqAtDI8LYOZ2ZzvEwRln7A/videos

I Also offer FREE PIANO LESSONS over Skype. Those who want to know more, feel free to PM me.

Offline jacobsterling

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #14 on: September 15, 2015, 11:29:48 AM
Perhaps I assumed too much. Anyway Perhaps we will just have to agree to see things differently. To me, the biggest problem with Bach is that it comes across cold and academic to play it the way you believe Bach would have wanted. I remember a time I didn't particularly like Bach and it was because of the style of performances his works are typically done in it was realising I could do whatever I wanted with his material that started me on the path to enjoying his work. I feel that by having more free and varied interpretations of his works we can expand his audience and increase the benefits offered by his music. I have seen first hand people reacting to less academic versions of Bach and seen it make them realise what they might get out of his music, surely that's worth exploring?

I don't doubt that he would probably want not that much in the way of dynamic and tempo embellishments but does that actually matter? Doesn't it matter far more what *I* a living person want to do? Or what others are going to get the most out of?

To make one other point clear I don't argue in favour of abandoning the playing of Bach in the ways you prefer, more that people accept and stop arguing against and stifling all other versions of Bach so self-righteously (which is not what you are doing but I have seen it done) I want there to be peaceful coexistence between two polar opposites and everything in between.

Finally let me put this to you, a kind of economic argument if you will. Let's say I'm more or less wrong and most people prefer Bach played traditionally but SOME do prefer my version of Bach. Shouldn't I satisfy that demographic? Doesn't that mean more people are satisfied overall considering that there are already many traditional Bach recordings and players?

But the traditional way of playing Bach IS in fact by adding all sorts of dynamics/rubato's. Only look on YT at Martha Argerich playing the Capriccio of his 2nd Partita. She simply makes it into some sort of a Hungarian Rhapsody. She doesn't play it how it is traditionally done. But the traditional way is exactly what I don't like.

What I think what's going on here, is that we both don't like the traditional way of playing Bach, however, both the ways how we like it to be played go contrary with each other. And, that ofcourse is not at all bad.

Offline torandrekongelf

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #15 on: September 15, 2015, 11:31:57 AM
But the traditional way of playing Bach IS in fact by adding all sorts of dynamics/rubato's. Only look on YT at Martha Argerich playing the Capriccio of his 2nd Partita. She simply makes it into some sort of a Hungarian Rhapsody. She doesn't play it how it is traditionally done. But the traditional way is exactly what I don't like.

What I think what's going on here, is that we both don't like the traditional way of playing Bach, however, both the ways how we like it to be played go contrary with each other. And, that ofcourse is not at all bad.



Out of curiousity, how do you know she does not play how it is traditionally done?

How can we even make statements how Bach was "traditionally" played. People didnt play things equally back then. Even alot more different back then than now. Almost all keyboard teachers back then was composers of their own. Many of them even believed they understood the music better than the composers themselves. Just imagine how many different ways these pieces was tought to studens, from place to place. And many of these teachers had no influence from other teachers where they discussed playstyles and how to perform the music. All was given to them by their own ideas and the teachers before them.

Today we have internet and recordings that influence all of us which make us play more or less the same way all the pieces. Just listen to early records from the 50s and see the huge variety in interpretations from today. Today all records are pretty much relatively equal compared to earlier recordings. The internet and easier access to other pianists instantly does this to us.

During Bachs time you would buy the score in a town, and only maybe heard the piece once if you where lucky. Imagine all the possible interpretations of tempo and articulations just from town to town. The difference must have been enormous from interpretation to interpretation.

Offline josh93248

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #16 on: September 15, 2015, 11:41:57 AM
@Jacob

I think I see what you mean, we both sort of got hung up on the word "Tradition" but I think we more or less understand each other's position and it sounds like we both accept one another's position too. I doubt either of us can persuade the other to our way of thinking but it's been enjoyable talking with you. I'd be happy to contribute to any other threads you might start on other composers too, if you're so inclined of course...


@torandrekongelf

You make a fair point, in a way we are all just guessing at his intentions aren't we? We can study him allwe like and all it becomes is an "educated guess.

By the way I'd love to have heard Beethoven's interpretations of Bach, I believe he played a lot of the Well-tempered Klavier...

Also, as I more or less said earlier, isn't the more important question how do we make the best of Bach's music now? Surely the answer is a combination of approaches and an acceptance of the differences. Bach may not approve of it all but I think he would understand that a richer and broader musical culture has more going for it than a narrower one.
Care to see my playing?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBqAtDI8LYOZ2ZzvEwRln7A/videos

I Also offer FREE PIANO LESSONS over Skype. Those who want to know more, feel free to PM me.

Offline jacobsterling

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #17 on: September 15, 2015, 11:44:53 AM
I believe Bach is THE greatest composer of all the time. Not only by the cheer genuis and extreme craftmanship he possessed or the amazing ability to compose the most amazing music with high intensity. Almost all his keyboard music was written during a timespan from 1720-1725 (with some exceptions)

I would go so far as to believe that Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven would not be as talented composers as they are were without Bachs influence. All of these composers learned many things about composition just by playing and understanding Bachs music. He is the father of our western music as we know it.

I think Bach is different from other composers in a way that his music always teaches us and shows us something that is greater than humanity itself. The only other place I get this feeling is from the later music of Beethoven.

And I am not talking about God or anything like that. I am not a religious person and Bach was a very religious person. But in every note composed by Bach there is a something "divine" (for a lack over a better term) behind every note. And when during many phrases in Bachs pieces I get the feel of total hypnosis and almost dangerous to listen while driving a car.

When it comes to playing Bach I think we have pretty strong evidence for what instrument we play Bach on doesnt really matter. He made arrangements for alot of his music for other instruments.

As Glenn Gould say there is no reason to believe that Bach thought it was very important what kind of color of sound and sonority certain instruments would give to his music. He was much more interested in harmonies and the structure of the music.

I do however listen to alot of clavichord and harpsicord records of his music. And I think we should bury the idea that people who listen or play Bach on old instruments do this out of a dogma that this is how it must be performed. I think mostly people who play it on old instruments just like the sound of old instruments. I personally think Bach music is so great it should be played by all instruments that are technically capable of performing it. That includes new and old instruments or even brass-quartets of his 4 voices fugues etc.

I think if Bach was present today I think he would have be delighted to hear his music performed on any modern instrument. There is no reason to believe otherwise.

In terms of dynamics I think its false to say that these things didnt happen in Bachs time. On organs and harpsichords there would be things you could do to make dynamic changes. Using stops on organs for different manuals with lower sound and switch manuals on harpsichords was a way to change dynamics. But of course there wasnt possible to do any crescendos or diminuendos. So when applying dynamics to Bachs music you should think in terms of loud parts and soft parts.

I agree with you. As for the dynamics, I was talking exclusively about the harpsichord. Did you ever play on one. It doesn't matter how hard you strike the keys, they will always produce the same velocity, except for some latter harpsichords which had 'blowing' pedals of some sort.

However, not most of his keyboard works were written betwen those 5 years, let me list some up:

  • The Art of Fugue, BWV 1080 - 1742
  • English Suites, BWV 806-811 - all in 1715
  • Pretty Much all of his 'single' fugues - around 1710
  • Goldberg Variations, BWV 988 - 1741
  • Partitas, BWV 825-830 - all in 1726
  • French Overture, BWV 831 - 1735
  • Toccatas, BWV 911-916 - all around 1710
  • The Well-Tempered Clavier Book 2 - 1744

As you probably know, those are a lot of his major keyboard works not written in between 1720-25.
And that's just some of it.

Offline jacobsterling

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #18 on: September 15, 2015, 11:47:23 AM
Out of curiousity, how do you know she does not play how it is traditionally done?

How can we even make statements how Bach was "traditionally" played. People didnt play things equally back then. Even alot more different back then than now. Almost all keyboard teachers back then was composers of their own. Many of them even believed they understood the music better than the composers themselves. Just imagine how many different ways these pieces was tought to studens, from place to place. And many of these teachers had no influence from other teachers where they discussed playstyles and how to perform the music. All was given to them by their own ideas and the teachers before them.

Today we have internet and recordings that influence all of us which make us play more or less the same way all the pieces. Just listen to early records from the 50s and see the huge variety in interpretations from today. Today all records are pretty much relatively equal compared to earlier recordings. The internet and easier access to other pianists instantly does this to us.

During Bachs time you would buy the score in a town, and only maybe heard the piece once if you where lucky. Imagine all the possible interpretations of tempo and articulations just from town to town. The difference must have been enormous from interpretation to interpretation.

Yes, I'm sorry. I should have made clear that I meant the way how Bach is traditionally played is from the time that Bach became really popular again, which was around 1830. And since we have recordings of it being played until indeed the 1950's when Glenn Gould let us see how he thought Bach should be played. I am a big supporter of his way.

Offline torandrekongelf

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #19 on: September 15, 2015, 11:48:28 AM
I agree with you. As for the dynamics, I was talking exclusively about the harpsichord. Did you ever play on one. It doesn't matter how hard you strike the keys, they will always produce the same velocity, except for some latter harpsichords which had 'blowing' pedals of some sort.

However, not most of his keyboard works were written betwen those 5 years, let me list some up:

  • The Art of Fugue, BWV 1080 - 1742
  • English Suites, BWV 806-811 - all in 1715
  • Pretty Much all of his 'single' fugues - around 1710
  • Goldberg Variations, BWV 988 - 1741
  • Partitas, BWV 825-830 - all in 1726
  • French Overture, BWV 831 - 1735
  • Toccatas, BWV 911-916 - all around 1710
  • The Well-Tempered Clavier Book 2 - 1744

As you probably know, those are a lot of his major keyboard works not written in between 1720-25.
And that's just some of it.


Yes I am infact studying the harpsichord with an organist. On some harpsichord the other manual has a different and softer sound.

I agree on the time when these things was composed. I may have been taken conclusions too fast about the keyboard music and their timspan. I just recalling looking on wikipedia that French Suites, WTC, Inventions, Notebooks was all made during the 20-25 period. I stand corrected.

Also, Partita in E minor and A-Minor are included in his 1725 Notebook to AMB, so it must have been composed before 1725.

Offline jacobsterling

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #20 on: September 15, 2015, 11:51:32 AM
@Jacob

I think I see what you mean, we both sort of got hung up on the word "Tradition" but I think we more or less understand each other's position and it sounds like we both accept one another's position too. I doubt either of us can persuade the other to our way of thinking but it's been enjoyable talking with you. I'd be happy to contribute to any other threads you might start on other composers too, if you're so inclined of course...

Hmm, how about a thread on Beethoven? That should be fun! ;D

Offline jacobsterling

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #21 on: September 15, 2015, 11:53:41 AM
Yes I am infact studying the harpsichord with an organist. On some harpsichord the other manual has a different and softer sound.

I agree on the time when these things was composed. I may have been taken conclusions too fast about the keyboard music and their timspan. I just recalling looking on wikipedia that French Suites, WTC, Inventions, Notebooks was all made during the 20-25 period. I stand corrected.

Also, Partita in E minor and A-Minor are included in his 1725 Notebook to AMB, so it must have been composed before 1725.

That's where you're right again, on those Partita's.

I studied the organ in my younger years (6-12) and I simply loved it. My piano playing is also influenced by it. I tend to become very aware of base lines.

Offline josh93248

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #22 on: September 15, 2015, 11:55:51 AM
Hmm, how about a thread on Beethoven? That should be fun! ;D

YES! Beethoven is my Favourite!!!!
Care to see my playing?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBqAtDI8LYOZ2ZzvEwRln7A/videos

I Also offer FREE PIANO LESSONS over Skype. Those who want to know more, feel free to PM me.

Offline jacobsterling

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #23 on: September 15, 2015, 11:57:47 AM
YES! Beethoven is my Favourite!!!!

Alright then!! ;)

Prepare for some new visions...

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #24 on: September 15, 2015, 10:37:51 PM
terrible. listen to scarlatti

100% Agreed. I was talking to my piano teacher after the lesson today, and she was like, "Oh, play some Bach" and I was like "I don't like Bach, YOLO"

Offline mjames

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #25 on: September 15, 2015, 11:15:11 PM
The composer Mauricio Kagel famously said "Es mag sein, dass nicht alle Musiker an Gött glauben, an Bach jedoch alle" (perhaps not all musicians believe in God, but all of them believe in Bach).

Case closed.

Best,

Alistair

Indeed. It is hard to believe that there are musicians who don't think much of Bach. Especially pianists...

ESPECIALLY pianists..

I mean, how can you even say "terrible" after listening to/playing his Goldberg variations. I just don't understand. There must be something wrong with you.

Offline jacobsterling

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #26 on: September 15, 2015, 11:20:25 PM
Indeed. It is hard to believe that there are musicians who don't think much of Bach. Especially pianists...

ESPECIALLY pianists..

I mean, how can you even say "terrible" after listening to/playing his Goldberg variations. I just don't understand. There must be something wrong with you.

Haha, I agree!

Offline outin

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #27 on: September 16, 2015, 12:11:11 AM
Indeed. It is hard to believe that there are musicians who don't think much of Bach. Especially pianists...

ESPECIALLY pianists..

I mean, how can you even say "terrible" after listening to/playing his Goldberg variations. I just don't understand. There must be something wrong with you.

There's a lot wrong with ME I'm sure :)
I don't really care for Bach either. Mostly boring. I'll go play some Scarlatti...

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: What do you think of Bach's music.
Reply #28 on: September 16, 2015, 12:18:35 AM
There's a lot wrong with ME I'm sure :)
I don't really care for Bach either. Mostly boring. I'll go play some Scarlatti...

I love you. I love everyone who loves Scarlatti :-*
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