Panel Discussion: What is Musical Maturity?

[kypiano]

Hi all,
      I was listening to some amazing recordings the other day, and I was wondering, what is musical maturity? Where does it come from? Is it from age? Experience? Or is it something else? Also, what can influence musical maturity? What are some other factors?

Here's some amazingly mature vids to get your brain juices flowing:

[pencilart3]

Like I would know

[ajlongspiano]

The ability to let go and be in complete control simultaneously.

[kypiano]

Yes, but there are many people who can "let go and be in complete control simultaneously." You guys, George Li was AWESOME when he was little (he is even more awesome now), but I wouldn't exactly say he was as "mature" as the teens in the videos I shared. Any more thoughts?

[ajlongspiano]

And there are many mature pianists out there. Most professional pianists are " mature " players. Mature, yes. Profound? That's another story.

- AJ

[kypiano]

Like I would know

Did I ask YOU?

I'm not an idiot. I wouldn't ask someone like you a question as useful as this.

And yeah, thanks for the extra Karma Danger Powers.

[pencilart3]

Did I ask YOU?

I never said you did. I said that I have no idea.

[ajlongspiano]

Noah's a smart kid with a lot of insight. No need to step on your prestigious pedestal

[kypiano]

And there are many mature pianists out there. Most professional pianists are " mature " players. Mature, yes. Profound? That's another story.

- AJ

But there are many professionals who just don't reach the level of those I showed in the video (and just FORGET Lang Lang, OK? ).

Maybe I asked the question wrong. Maybe the word is not "maturity". What is the word? I'm not gonna say "talent", because I'm sure there some people who are equally as talented, but just with different incidents and lucks.

[kypiano]

Noah's a smart kid with a lot of insight. No need to step on your prestigious pedestal

I was trying to burn him*. Instead, I burned myself

*For refusing to lend me any of his Karma Danger Powers

[ajlongspiano]

What is the word?

I think what you're referring to is personal preference. Its not objective maturity but rather you enjoy the ideas these pianists bring to their performances. I'm not saying they aren't mature, they're all very gifted (especially Leonardo Colafelice).

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Musical maturity, imo, is the point at which you can formulate interpretative ideas for yourself, execute them coherently, persuasively and with technical command, and understand why you are doing what you are doing, rather than because you are (consciously or not) emulating somebody else's ideas.

[ajlongspiano]

Musical maturity, imo, is the point at which you can formulate interpretative ideas for yourself, execute them coherently, persuasively and with technical command, and understand why you are doing what you are doing, rather than because you are (consciously or not) emulating somebody else's ideas.

That's a good definition. Although, taking inspiration from other pianists isn't a sign of " immaturity " in my opinion, especially if done sparingly. I mean, Alfred Cortot is my hero .

[kypiano]

I think what you're referring to is personal preference. Its not objective maturity but rather you enjoy the ideas these pianists bring to their performances. I'm not saying they aren't mature, they're all very gifted (especially Leonardo Colafelice).

Well, that was definitely part of the reason I like them, but when I mean mature, I mean, they don't SOUND their age. They sound REALLY REALLY... I don't know the word for it! But if you get George Li or some other CHILD prodigy, you can hear the difference in the Maturity Level. OK, this discussion is really unexpected.

[ajlongspiano]

Its not the most difficult thing in the world to SOUND mature without being mature.

[pencilart3]

That's a good definition. Although, taking inspiration from other pianists isn't a sign of " immaturity " in my opinion, especially if done sparingly. I mean, Justin Bieber is my hero .

What?! Justin Bieber? LOL JUST KIDDING

[ronde_des_sylphes]

.. taking inspiration from other pianists isn't a sign of " immaturity " in my opinion, especially if done sparingly. I mean, Alfred Cortot is my hero .

Agreed, though trying to emulate great pianists precisely is doomed to failure. However no harm in seeing what they do and if you like it, taking it into consideration within your conception of a piece; I do of course think there should be a good reason for it, not something like "I'll play the opening like Cortot, the second theme like Argerich and the coda like Michelangeli"

[ajlongspiano]

Noah, you're not helping your cause here haha.

[kypiano]

Its not the most difficult thing in the world to SOUND mature without being mature.

Actually, I meant MUSICALLY mature. And IMHO, those people are all musically mature. Do you have something against them or this discussion (well, I can't delete it,, soo...?

[ajlongspiano]

Agreed, though trying to emulate great pianists precisely is doomed to failure. However no harm in seeing what they do and if you like it, taking it into consideration within your conception of a piece; I do of course think there should be a good reason for it, not something like "I'll play the opening like Cortot, the second theme like Argerich and the coda like Michelangeli"

@ronde_des_sylphes - Absolutely, I totally agree. I like to think in the larger picture when it comes to how I take my inspiration. So it would go something more like: " I want to have a sense of line similar to Cortot, the gripping fire like quality of Argerich, yet the refined poetic side of Michelangeli. " Not exact, but something along those lines. You just have to be creative with it

[ajlongspiano]

@kypiano - Haha I have nothing against these people. Why would I? I just think this thread is kind of confusing..

[pencilart3]

Noah, you're not helping your cause here haha.

Haha oops! I mean... good definition rondo des something-or-other and yes Cortot is a boss. I think it's all right to take ideas from someone but I wouldn't suggest trying to play it like someone "Because it's Cortot". Or Zimerman or Argerich or Michelangli. Actually it's never good to take anything from Argerich

[kypiano]

Haha oops! I mean... good definition rondo des something-or-other and yes Cortot is a boss. I think it's all right to take ideas from someone but I wouldn't suggest trying to play it like someone "Because it's Cortot". Or Zimerman or Argerich or Michelangli. Actually it's never good to take anything from Argerich

I'd recommend the Prokofiev Sonata Op. 28 played by her. It's so weird that ugly pieces are made beautiful by her, but the beautiful pieces are made ugly by her!

[kypiano]

Haha oops! I mean... good definition rondo des something-or-other and yes Cortot is a boss. I think it's all right to take ideas from someone but I wouldn't suggest trying to play it like someone "Because it's Cortot". Or Zimerman or Argerich or Michelangli. Actually it's never good to take anything from Argerich

Ronde des Sylphes. Get your Lyapunov straight. Karma Danger Powers?

[ronde_des_sylphes]

good definition rondo des something-or-other

ronde des sylphes  

[kypiano]

ronde des sylphes  

Didn't I already tell him that

[pencilart3]

ronde des sylphes  

Oh I see

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Didn't I already tell him that

Yes, but you only beat me by about 20 seconds because I was finding a video link

[kypiano]

Yes, but you only beat me by about 20 seconds because I was finding a video link

No excuses.

Will YOU give me some Karma Danger Powers?

[ajlongspiano]

That's an amazing recording, Rondo.

[kypiano]

Apparently u guys like Rubinsteinmad more than me.

[ajlongspiano]

I don't dislike either of you.

[kypiano]

I don't dislike either of you.

Let it out! Who do you like better?

[kevonthegreatpianist]

Apparently u guys like Rubinsteinmad more than me.

rubensteinmad is claiming bullshit about me tho

[rubinsteinmad]

rubensteinmad is claiming bullshit about me tho

Hi Olivia

[rubinsteinmad]

rubensteinmad is claiming bullshit about me tho

It's quite a surprise YOU're in this topic. Did the word "maturity" catch your eye? Just so u know, it says "Maturity", not "Immaturity

[symphonicdance]

musical maturity?  i would say that's also growing with some one's age and life experience.  this, however, assume the technical ability has met advanced level.

[kypiano]

rubensteinmad is claiming bullshit about me tho

Powers needed. Running out. Dying.........

[rubinsteinmad]

U know that ur really spamming, right?

[dcstudio]

musical maturity?  very simply put...  the immature virtuoso is interested in one thing--demonstrating that he can play the fastest...that he plays the most difficult repertoire...he is focused on getting from one end to other cleanly.  He uses dynamics and phrasing but only what he has ingrained into his hands ahead of time.  He believes that more notes played louder and faster means better music and that he is a more awesome pianist.

a mature player pays attention to every nuance to the piece.. he knows the piece backwards and forwards and can adjust his dynamics, pedaling, texture, or anything else he wishes to better suit the venue.  The mature player will play music because it's beautiful and it moves him and he wants to share that with his audience.   He is not stepping on stage to show off his chops... he is sharing his passion for the music itself.

[khantallis123]

Hi all,
   

Hey, Ky!

You know, Cho Seong-jin recently won the Chopin Competition: just a few weeks ago!

[khantallis123]

they're all very gifted (especially Leonardo Colafelice).

Changed you mind, haven't you? 

[lostinidlewonder]

Musical maturity many may think it has to do with sound production of your performance, I think this is one part of it. How one approaches their music with discipline to me also is a form of musical maturity, not many kids want to do work when they don't want to and for one to see piano in such a way that they will dedicate their free time (instead of play activities for "normal" kids) to study it shows musical maturity, also how they analyse and perceive information can be related to some kind of musical maturity.

When one attaches this statement of maturity to actual playing I don't totally understand what it means they do not elaborate. Sure it can mean they play with emotions and expression in their music that reflects more adult experiences of trials and tribulations in life, or that their technique is so brushed up it resembles an adults command or etc etc, but just saying that their playing is very mature is an unspecific and quite a broad description.

[ted]

Musical maturity for me was embracing the courage to be myself in my music, create the sounds which make me happy regardless of consequence, praise or opprobrium; to listen to the little ideas inside and to them alone. This did not happen until I was about fifty-five, so I suppose that implies I was immature for half a century. Ha ha ! Oh well, the reward is worth the wait.