Need some help with my playing....

[handz]

Hello

my situation now: I bought baby grand 6 months ago and start serious playing (after having 6 octave keyboard played from time to time ), no teacher.

I managed to learn Chopin 9 2 and parts of many other pieces, I can somehow play Fatasie Impromptu - once I figured out crossrhytm  it is not that impossible as it looked (but of course Im miles from playing it even close to good, I can just somehow play the notes) now Im learning Rachmaninov C sharp prelude - it surprisingly goes very well, It fits under fingers amazingly good (some tips for technically similar pieces? It is joy to play for me really - especially the agitato part).  I also learned half of Revolutionary etude but that run played with both hands on the star is killing me, can't manage to play it fast and without error, always one hand goes out of sync

My problem - I do not practice scales - I suck with them,  really, I can play chromatics but normal scales.. bad. I can play arpeggios but not too fast. Should I concentrate on this?

I also have some technical problems of course, which slows me with many pieces I need more finger independence and hand independence  - this seems to be problem, especially in passages when one hand plays shorter notes and also should hold longer notes  my fingers are not independent enough if it makes sense. For some reason Im having problems with the second part of Raindrop prelude  where this technique is quite prominent.  What is best practice / etude / approach I should jump into? I play usually around 3-6 hours a day as I really love it and want to progress, just need some direction probably and useful technical exercises...

thank you for any input

[outin]

With so much practice time and such issues I just don't see a better solution than getting a teacher to help you.

[dcstudio]

I am wondering why you feel that your problem is that you don't play scales well and why you have committed to this endeavor with the purchase of a baby grand... and yet you did not invest in a teacher. Do you live in a remote location?
If you post a video of your playing I may be able to help somewhat in determining where the problem is.   Three to six hours a day is pretty intense..  what are your goals musically speaking?  What happened that inspired you to get serious about playing?

[indianajo]

I learned finger independence from the Schmitt exercises, ten minutes a day the first two years.  They are available from pianostreet, or the paper ones come from G. Schirmer.  Even legato then even stacatto were two variations, also slow then fast.    After I memorized this week's exercise, I used to practice it while reading a book.  
I was addicted to helping the injured right third finger with the second in all cases, which was not physically necessary. It was just a habit caused by the injury.   Piano was a sort of cheap physical therapy, since my Mother had one in the living room.  It turns out I was pretty good at it, even though my third fingernail clicks on the keys.  
When I got a pro piano teacher after two years, she moved me to Edna Mae Berman exercises, one a week.  In the fifth or sixth year she moved me to the Czerny school of velocity exercises.
I did learn scales at one point but did not do them as many hours as the exercises.  Turning thumb under for scales is only one of many physical tricks you need to know. 

[handz]

I am wondering why you feel that your problem is that you don't play scales well and why you have committed to this endeavor with the purchase of a baby grand... and yet you did not invest in a teacher. Do you live in a remote location?
If you post a video of your playing I may be able to help somewhat in determining where the problem is.   Three to six hours a day is pretty intense..  what are your goals musically speaking?  What happened that inspired you to get serious about playing?

I do not know if it is my biggest problem but I for sure lack some advanced hand independence - for examble that run down the keyboard on the start of Revolutionary etude making me huge synchro problems

I plan to do some video soon. Yes I love piano, and I always wanted to play, I once even had few lessons in local musical school (but really it was like 12 years ago (Im 32) and maybe 10 lections or so) I quit as I really hate anything like organised school and anything taht smells like it - i need some friendly approach.  Finding a good teacher that fits you is quite hard and in my town I so far not find any teacher so far, I have friends on musical schools etc but finding a teacher who take some adult persons is very hard here.

My goal is to be able to play for myself things I like - mostly romantic period pieces, I dont have to play La campanella but definitely would love to learn full Liebestrame and Un Sospiro for example and some Rachmaninovs preldes and etudes as well Chopins Ballade 1 etc, I compose orchestral music so it also helps to be able to play well.
 

[handz]

I tried few new pieces today  and probably Im more sure about what my problem is - anything even as simple like this https://www.sheetmusicdownload.in/piano/sheets/741/Star_Wars_Across_The_Stars.html is a problem for me. Same for simpliest Bach pieces, it is quite hard to explain but - Chopins nocturnes YES  - those are joy to play and study but anything that should be much easier and is composed like the piece posted (or the Amelie theme etc) I suffer, I do not get it but simple left hand pattern and some chords in right and it is totally  not work HT.  Really want to solve this by soe practice, but not sure what is best. Big chord pieces with octaves and even big jumps are not problem  but this "delicate" "simple" melodic things are :-/

[dcstudio]

I do not know if it is my biggest problem but I for sure lack some advanced hand independence - for examble that run down the keyboard on the start of Revolutionary etude making me huge synchro problems

I plan to do some video soon. Yes I love piano, and I always wanted to play, I once even had few lessons in local musical school (but really it was like 12 years ago (Im 32) and maybe 10 lections or so) I quit as I really hate anything like organised school and anything taht smells like it - i need some friendly approach.  Finding a good teacher that fits you is quite hard and in my town I so far not find any teacher so far, I have friends on musical schools etc but finding a teacher who take some adult persons is very hard here.

My goal is to be able to play for myself things I like - mostly romantic period pieces, I dont have to play La campanella but definitely would love to learn full Liebestrame and Un Sospiro for example and some Rachmaninovs preldes and etudes as well Chopins Ballade 1 etc, I compose orchestral music so it also helps to be able to play well.
 

Sounds like a plan   I do understand it is tough to find a teacher who takes adult students...but that usually only applies to adults who are complete beginners.   If you are composing orchestral music than you must have a pretty strong theory foundation.. you also must have a working knowledge of the range of each instrument in the orchestra.... and you can already read music... right? most teachers, including myself,  take that kind of adult student with open arms...

It sounds like you problem is more one of poor technique...  scales help improve technique...but not practicing them doesn't cause one to be devoid of technique--if that makes sense.  These pieces you have listed...though they are not quite LC...still  require some serious technical prowess to master.

people have mixed feelings on hanon but... it worked for me.   There is another member here who started playing only 3 years ago and he is easily one of the most advanced and musical pianists on this site.   He spent his first three months of study playing Hanon exercises 2-4 hours a day...  continuously.   I have never seen anyone with that much drive and discipline... if you can handle it...  I can guarantee--if you play these exercises correctly and invest 30 minutes a day... you will get some pretty serious and noticeable results.  That opening sequence in the Revolutionary will suddenly become frightfully easy.  I will warn you now... some folks are going to tell you--probably right here on this thread---that Hanon sucks... lol..  just make your own decision.

The Chopin etudes are designed to improve an existing technique--but those are really not practical for the developmental aspects when it comes to the basics.

[brogers70]

A good teacher is truly what you need. You are an adult musician who wants to learn piano technique, not an adult beginner who wants to learn the piano. Teachers will love you. The trick is to find one who wants to teach you technique. Learning piano technique with a good teacher is fun. You can get into thinking about all your muscles and joints, how to move in the most relaxed, efficient way, producing different sorts of sounds. It's great. But you need a teacher to give you constant feedback. There are plenty of technical exercises, but I think they are useless unless you have a teacher who is giving you detailed feedback on how you are doing them.

If you have 3-6 hours a day to practice, spend a week in which you devote 2-3 hours a day to locating a good teacher. It will absolutely be worth it. You can work hard for years without a teacher and never make the progress you could in 1/4 the time with a a good one.

[handz]

Thank you for reply guys, trust me Im looking for teacher but it is really hard here...

as for the Hanon - it really seems to be "controversial" but I believe some excersises must be necessary, so I give him a try, 30 -60 mins a day is easy to find for this.

I suck with score reading really, on computer when you compose you mostly spend time in Key Roll view so it not helps your music reading hehe.

you are right I need feedback and someone who point me into right direction... but so far I need to suit myself unless I found someone

[dcstudio]

Thank you for reply guys, trust me Im looking for teacher but it is really hard here...

as for the Hanon - it really seems to be "controversial" but I believe some excersises must be necessary, so I give him a try, 30 -60 mins a day is easy to find for this.

I suck with score reading really, on computer when you compose you mostly spend time in Key Roll view so it not helps your music reading hehe.

you are right I need feedback and someone who point me into right direction... but so far I need to suit myself unless I found someone

I apologize... I misunderstood your statement...  

learning to play the piano involves a lot of independent study...  there are a lot of things you can do ahead of time--like learn theory basics, the notes on the staff, rhythms, chords, time signatures, key signatures, chord progressions--if you study the academics and have some working knowledge and correct terminology you will show a potential teacher that you are indeed serious.   This is the main reason a lot of instructors don't like adult students..  they generally are just not very committed or if they are they usually fold up at the first sign of trouble.  Plus adult students have no one to put them in the car and say "YOU are going to your piano lesson!"--most of the time anyway...lol  plus if they have no sense of rhythm and they have reached adulthood -- man... that's tough to fix...lol.

so when you call a potential teacher make sure you explain that you are indeed serious and that you have already prepared yourself for lessons...  this will help...  I promise...lol.

[handz]

I pretty much know the scales, chords theory, harmony etc, just not read notes on the score so well as I should, but this I believe can be learned, I know how to read notes just not as well as someone who do this daily

Im definitely very into it and for sure not plan to quit - honestly when you start and you only play some hanon I would quit for sure, but the fact that I somehow learned some serious pieces and immediately put me more into it

[alpacinator1]

The problem is that you're trying to play advanced pieces when you are still a beginner. Obviously you can't hit the notes correctly, because you have not had the time to develop your technique up to that level.

I don't think scales and technical exercises are necessary. What is necessary is choosing pieces you can actually play without too much trouble, so that you can learn to articulate the notes correctly and use fluid, natural hand movements. The technical proficiency will come with time.

[handz]

I definetely agree, problem is that I have difficulty with just some pieces (like big difficulties) while some pieces fit just right under the fingers and I can learn them even on my level.

this is something Im not sure about - to play harder pieces even it is harder and takes long time or practice some bit boring simple pieces that I would not want to play in the future to get technique -  I thinkg doing both is best,  just to find a balance and what to practice and of coruse some direction in the way I play these pieces, as I believe that practicing some technical excercises in a wrong way may be also harmful

The problem is that you're trying to play advanced pieces when you are still a beginner. Obviously you can't hit the notes correctly, because you have not had the time to develop your technique up to that level.

I don't think scales and technical exercises are necessary. What is necessary is choosing pieces you can actually play without too much trouble, so that you can learn to articulate the notes correctly and use fluid, natural hand movements. The technical proficiency will come with time.

[dcstudio]

I pretty much know the scales, chords theory, harmony etc, just not read notes on the score so well as I should, but this I believe can be learned, I know how to read notes just not as well as someone who do this daily

Im definitely very into it and for sure not plan to quit - honestly when you start and you only play some hanon I would quit for sure, but the fact that I somehow learned some serious pieces and immediately put me more into it

I don't mean ONLY hanon... that would be torture...geez..    just invest a set amount of time each day to doing "cardio" for your hands.

If you post a video of your playing...scary as that sounds... you can get some feedback on your technique.  Nobody will trash it unless you make big grandiose claims about what an awesome player you are.. LOL  

[handz]

Hahaha I knoow  

I looked into hanon this afternoon and yes it is a torture, and there is so many of thsoe excersises, scary   


I will do some video, but problem is - and I mean it honestly - when I want to record myself I always play much worse than when I play just for me, practising, I jsut cant stand the pressure of doing it for "real" it it makes sense.

[dcstudio]

Hahaha I knoow  

I looked into hanon this afternoon and yes it is a torture, and there is so many of thsoe excersises, scary   


I will do some video, but problem is - and I mean it honestly - when I want to record myself I always play much worse than when I play just for me, practising, I jsut cant stand the pressure of doing it for "real" it it makes sense.

then don't think of doing it for "real"...  think "just for me practicing"     I understand your desire to do your best.. but in this regard.. we have seen it all--post a video and we can help.

[dogperson]

A good teacher is truly what you need. You are an adult musician who wants to learn piano technique, not an adult beginner who wants to learn the piano. Teachers will love you. The trick is to find one who wants to teach you technique. Learning piano technique with a good teacher is fun. You can get into thinking about all your muscles and joints, how to move in the most relaxed, efficient way, producing different sorts of sounds. It's great. But you need a teacher to give you constant feedback. There are plenty of technical exercises, but I think they are useless unless you have a teacher who is giving you detailed feedback on how you are doing them.

If you have 3-6 hours a day to practice, spend a week in which you devote 2-3 hours a day to locating a good teacher. It will absolutely be worth it. You can work hard for years without a teacher and never make the progress you could in 1/4 the time with a a good one.

Forum members here will gladly help, but I believe many of us would recommend a teacher.  If you want to share where you have looked and where you live, I believe someone can help you.  It is just really easy to develop bad habits that take a long time to correct.

[outin]

I definetely agree, problem is that I have difficulty with just some pieces (like big difficulties) while some pieces fit just right under the fingers and I can learn them even on my level.

I think when you find a good teacher it will open your eyes to a fact that is difficult to understand when you are just starting to play:
Physically it is possible to play a piece in a number of different ways. But the more difficult the pieces become the more difficult it is to play them without having a technique that is exactly right for that piece. This is probably one reason why so many people seem to advance well on their own while playing easier material, but will stall at some point and never are able to play really advanced music.

So what one does is practice the efficient techniques right from the beginning, even when playing stuff that one COULD play in a less efficient way as well. That less efficient way may even seem easier to a beginner, because playing the piano isn't always based on the most instinctive movements. That's where a good teacher helps: They KNOW what it takes to play advanced material and can apply that knowledge to your playing, even when you are playing the most simple pieces.

My present teacher told me this on our first meeting, but of course I mentally resisted the idea, because her way seemed physically harder at first and I had no problem playing "my way" at that point. Now I see how right she was... I can now play passages in pieces that I found physically impossible without extreme strain 4 years ago, even if I haven't actually practiced those pieces at all during that time.

[handz]

haha I got it, I need to find teacher... I knew this from start but it is really harder than find a good deal for Steinway piano.

in meantime I need to practice too