Is it possible to progress without teacher?

[chopin4lyfe]

Hello everyone.

As the topic says, is it possible to progress without a piano teacher? I'm currently on a waiting list, for getting a piano teacher at my local music school. Last time I had a piano lesson was late June.
I would consider myself being grade 4 on the ABRSM list - although I've never been a part of any examination board, and I've been playing for exactly 4 years.

So, I'm expecting to get a piano teacher in August next year - latest.

But is it possible to progress just a little bit, when I already have acquired some skills?
What I'm trying to do ATM, is to find pieces, that I consider at my level, and learn them.

[pencilart3]

Yes you can. Watch youtube videos or ask someone here to give you feedback. Or post in the audition room. I know that AJ or myself would happily help you out. For free of course.

[louispodesta]

Hello everyone.

As the topic says, is it possible to progress without a piano teacher? I'm currently on a waiting list, for getting a piano teacher at my local music school. Last time I had a piano lesson was late June.
I would consider myself being grade 4 on the ABRSM list - although I've never been a part of any examination board, and I've been playing for exactly 4 years.

So, I'm expecting to get a piano teacher in August next year - latest.

But is it possible to progress just a little bit, when I already have acquired some skills?
What I'm trying to do ATM, is to find pieces, that I consider at my level, and learn them.

There is a myth being perpetrated on this and other websites that you can learn how to play the piano through self-study.  Can one learn basic anthropology, as is taught by many universities, through self-study?  Yes, one can.

Does the same hold true for the most complex hand/eye motor related fine art in the world?  No, it does not, in my opinion and also that of "millions" of others.

After years and years of study at a college level, can one go forward with only the help of a coach?  Of course, yes they can.

In your particular situation, please do not delude yourself into believing what no one else has ever accomplished.  And, whatever they say about Brendel, most of it is a lie.

[chopin4lyfe]

There is a myth being perpetrated on this and other websites that you can learn how to play the piano through self-study.  Can one learn basic anthropology, as is taught by many universities, through self-study?  Yes, one can.

Does the same hold true for the most complex hand/eye motor related fine art in the world?  No, it does not, in my opinion and also that of "millions" of others.

After years and years of study at a college level, can one go forward with only the help of a coach?  Of course, yes they can.

In your particular situation, please do not delude yourself into believing what no one else has ever accomplished.  And, whatever they say about Brendel, most of it is a lie.

I'm not quite sure I understand you clearly. Are you saying, that it's practically impossible to learn some piano-skills by yourself? I'm not quite sure. But I'd be nice if you could please explain further.

[abel2]

Of course you can progress without a teacher. I didn't make much progress until I got rid of my teacher.

[yadeehoo]

Of course you can progress without a teacher. I didn't make much progress until I got rid of my teacher.

There are some ppl like that.

[louispodesta]

"I'm not quite sure I understand you clearly. Are you saying, that it's practically impossible to learn some piano-skills by yourself? I'm not quite sure. But I'd be nice if you could please explain further."

For the better part of three centuries, very well intentioned scholars/teachers have attempted to teach people how to play the piano.  Unfortunately, most of them did not even remotely know what they were doing in terms of the mechanics associated with the human body.

However, that does not mean that there are currently others who are genuinely qualified to weigh in on this particular subject, absent Dr. Thomas Mark and Robert Durst,

Specifically, if you want to learn how to play a scale, a scale passage, an arpeggio, a chord, an octave, or any other combination of the above, then you need a teacher!  And, that means, in my opinion, someone who is Taubmnan certified, in terms of piano technique.

Political correctness has nothing to do with the proper study of learning how to play the piano.  It is human body biophysics, plain and simple!

And, at this point in your non-development, you are not even remotely qualified to teach yourself anything in regards proper piano pedagogy.

[dogperson]

[quote author=louispodesta link=topic=59765.msg641586#msg641586 date=144486581

And, at this point in your non-development, you are not even remotely qualified to teach yourself anything in regards proper piano pedagogy.
[/quote]

Louis, I think you has misunderstood the question.  The OP has been taking lessons, with the last one in June.... the next lessons will begin next August or so. The OP has had instruction, and this base can be strengthened in the next few months.  Continuation of scales, theory, learning music at approximately the same level, and then posting those videos/recordings for feedback.  Other things that can be done are watching masterclasses on YouTube as others have suggested.  We are not discussing someone without some basic training. 

[rubinsteinmad]

Yes, you can.

You may even progress faster without a teacher if you actually try.

[abel2]

Yes, you can.

You may even progress faster without a teacher if you actually try.

That's what I did

[outin]

If you already have some basic knowledge and technique, of course you can progress on your own in the sense that you can learn new pieces (within your present skill level) and fine tune your existing skills.

Only if you do it too long you might get into trouble because you are totally depending on your own subjective perception of your progress and won't necessarily even notice when your "progress" is heading to the wrong direction.

And for those who think they progress faster without a teacher...
- If you had a bad teacher you might indeed progress faster
- You might just imagine that you are progressing faster because of the lack of objective evaluation. The piece that seemed extremely hard to study with a teacher becomes much easier when you are free to lower the expectations of quality. Suddenly you can pick up pieces your teacher told you were too advanced and "play" them just fine

[swagmaster420x]

There is a myth being perpetrated on this and other websites that you can learn how to play the piano through self-study.  Can one learn basic anthropology, as is taught by many universities, through self-study?  Yes, one can.

Does the same hold true for the most complex hand/eye motor related fine art in the world?  No, it does not, in my opinion and also that of "millions" of others.

After years and years of study at a college level, can one go forward with only the help of a coach?  Of course, yes they can.

In your particular situation, please do not delude yourself into believing what no one else has ever accomplished.  And, whatever they say about Brendel, most of it is a lie.

Pedagogical elitist, shut up.

[philolog]

Didn't Godowsky claim to be mostly self-taught?

[bronnestam]

If you already have some basic knowledge and technique, of course you can progress on your own in the sense that you can learn new pieces (within your present skill level) and fine tune your existing skills.

Only if you do it too long you might get into trouble because you are totally depending on your own subjective perception of your progress and won't necessarily even notice when your "progress" is heading to the wrong direction.

And for those who think they progress faster without a teacher...
- If you had a bad teacher you might indeed progress faster
- You might just imagine that you are progressing faster because of the lack of objective evaluation. The piece that seemed extremely hard to study with a teacher becomes much easier when you are free to lower the expectations of quality. Suddenly you can pick up pieces your teacher told you were too advanced and "play" them just fine

I take lessons rather seldom; a minimum of three weeks is what I require between the lessons with my regular teacher. Why? Because I am an amateur which means I have other things do to and sometimes I don't have the time to practice. And also because of what is said here above, that I need time to WORK with the things I learned in lesson and make it "a knowledge of my own", so to speak. I need to develop my own idea about the piece in question. So, I never accept "assignments" from my teacher. Noone is ever to tell me what piece to learn next. (It was like that back in the old days when I was a young student. Sometimes I just hated the pieces I was to learn, and the result was accordingly ...)

Self-studies are the very backbone in a pianist's development ... After all, during my comeback as an active pianist, I had to work alone for two years before I even found a teacher. What I had instead, which was invaluable help, were the resources found on Internet: e-books, streamed video lessons etcetera. There is plenty out there ... Including lectures and other material produced by the very best names. Without these resources, I would have got nowhere, that is for sure! BUT - I also believe the biggest pitfall for every self-student (?) is that you might develop some, let's say, kind of attitude. I have met so many who are self-taught and they are often very proud of their achievments and they just cannot believe they don't know it all already. Sometimes they can notice that there are things they don't do very well, and they believe that there is nothing to do about it "but practice a bit more", or just accept that their talent is "limited".

Believe me, I am not different! I have come to many lessons with my masterpiece polished and ready, as I thought, and then the feedback sometimes is a surprise ... not always pleasant ...  
But then we work a bit and I go home with my new knowledge and a nice feeling of gratitude and enlightment.

We all need a dialogue and information exchange with other human beings, that is how we are by nature. And your admiring mother or best friend are not always the best critics because they love you and they may not have the best knowledge either. A paid teacher is better.
In worst case it is also of big help to sit down and watch other piano students - they certainly don't have to be very good, on the contrary: you can learn an awful lot by the bad ones and the beginners. The flaws you are unable to observe in your playing are very obvious when someone else is doing them.

As I have been to piano summer schools both this year and last year, I have managed to have eight ( 8 ) different teachers during these two years - one teacher in improvisation and one in composition, and my regular teacher included. Of course, the nature of such "occasional" lessons are different from regular lessons. Nevertheless, I highly appreciate each and every one of these teachers, they have all given me important input even if I had most of them for just 2 or 3 hours altogether. So my conclusion is that it is good to have a teacher, and even better to have many.    And that you don't always have to be the active student yourself in every lesson, you learn a lot even if you are just audience.

So, here comes the short summary: yes, you can make a lot of progress without a teacher. Yes, you will make better progress with lessons, even if they are sporadic. Yes, you need to maintain a very open-minded and humble attitude. There is always more to learn!