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Standard Piano Keyboard Size And Discrimination ? (Read 2216 times)

Offline jasper14

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Standard Piano Keyboard Size And Discrimination ?
« on: October 23, 2015, 09:33:07 PM »


  I appreciate this is a rather touchy and controversial topic, but we can all probably agree to some extent that the piano keyboard does physically disadvantage particular players...

 For example I'm teaching a boy with rather small hands and it is clear to me that his hands generally do not fit the conventional size keyboard very well or comfortably.

  There was a recent article in Clavier Companion on this small hand size problem and a proposed future solution, being introducing new smaller 'standard' keyboard sizes to help make the instrument more ergonomically friendly and comfortable to play for a wider range of pianists (children and women).

 Do any other teachers/pianists have similar thoughts on making the piano keyboard (the tool) less elitist ?

http://www.cicadabay.com/pianos/Clavier%20Companion%20cover%20&%20article,%20Sept-Oct%202015.pdf                   link to Article.

     

Online dogperson

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Re: Standard Piano Keyboard Size And Discrimination ?
«Reply #1 on: October 23, 2015, 09:35:40 PM »
Haven't we already had this conversation?

http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=59243.0

Offline adodd81802

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Re: Standard Piano Keyboard Size And Discrimination ?
«Reply #2 on: October 23, 2015, 11:17:20 PM »
I remember this also Dog. I also remember rejecting it. Now I wonder if Jasper has an ulterior motive.

I think it's a pointless conversation.
"England is a country of pianos, they are everywhere."

Offline outin

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Re: Standard Piano Keyboard Size And Discrimination ?
«Reply #3 on: October 24, 2015, 07:11:58 AM »
Haven't we already had this conversation?

http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=59243.0

Yes we did and I think we covered the topic pretty thoroughly...

Offline keypeg

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Re: Standard Piano Keyboard Size And Discrimination ?
«Reply #4 on: October 25, 2015, 07:05:59 AM »
It was also brought up in at least two locations in another forum not that long ago.

Offline vaniii

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Re: Standard Piano Keyboard Size And Discrimination ?
«Reply #5 on: October 25, 2015, 07:26:44 AM »
This has been posted on multiple forums to the same ends; ultimately disconcerting responses

Offline louispodesta

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Re: Standard Piano Keyboard Size And Discrimination ?
«Reply #6 on: October 26, 2015, 09:48:22 PM »
This is a first.  I totally concur with the responding posts.

And for those remember, I suggested (in no uncertain terms) that the prior other post had ulterior motives based on a non-profit organization dedicated to this very subject.

Dos y dos es quatro!

Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Standard Piano Keyboard Size And Discrimination ?
«Reply #7 on: November 17, 2015, 11:09:55 PM »

 Do any other teachers/pianists have similar thoughts on making the piano keyboard (the tool) less elitist ?

     
I dont understand your usage of the word 'elitist' here. Do you even know what that means?

Are you saying that when a little child is too short to reach the correct elevator button, then the elevator panel is elitist?
Work in progress:

Rondo Alla Turca

Offline jasper14

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Re: Standard Piano Keyboard Size And Discrimination ?
«Reply #8 on: November 18, 2015, 12:16:32 AM »


 I wouldn't have used the word if I didn't understand the meaning ! 

Basically it's allowing a select group of people certain rights and privileges, in piano playing comfortably reaching large chords or 10ths could be seen as pianist privileges :)   

Offline pianoplunker

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Re: Standard Piano Keyboard Size And Discrimination ?
«Reply #9 on: November 18, 2015, 01:34:26 AM »

  I appreciate this is a rather touchy and controversial topic, but we can all probably agree to some extent that the piano keyboard does physically disadvantage particular players...

 For example I'm teaching a boy with rather small hands and it is clear to me that his hands generally do not fit the conventional size keyboard very well or comfortably.

  There was a recent article in Clavier Companion on this small hand size problem and a proposed future solution, being introducing new smaller 'standard' keyboard sizes to help make the instrument more ergonomically friendly and comfortable to play for a wider range of pianists (children and women).

 Do any other teachers/pianists have similar thoughts on making the piano keyboard (the tool) less elitist ?

http://www.cicadabay.com/pianos/Clavier%20Companion%20cover%20&%20article,%20Sept-Oct%202015.pdf                   link to Article.

     

It would make pianos more expensive since manufacturers would have to deal with different standards. Smaller keys means smaller leverage so the whole hammer mechanism would have to be changed as well, otherwise they keys would be harder to press.

Offline outin

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Re: Standard Piano Keyboard Size And Discrimination ?
«Reply #10 on: November 18, 2015, 05:19:29 AM »
Smaller keys means smaller leverage so the whole hammer mechanism would have to be changed as well, otherwise they keys would be harder to press.

Not quite, since as far as I know the keys are not made any shorter, just slightly less wide. In the old days the pianos often had slightly narrower keys anyway.

Offline mjames

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Re: Standard Piano Keyboard Size And Discrimination ?
«Reply #11 on: November 18, 2015, 07:42:33 AM »
The return of the hobbit hands XDDD


in the old days, people (Europeans) were smaller in average. These aren't the olden days. I still need hard proof that theres a large pool of ADULT females that are incapable of reaching octaves, and just how many of them are serious pianists...

Because honestly, there's no point in making another "standard" when the market isn't there.

And now OP's jealous of people who can plays 10ths comfortably? Then again I've seen 10ths here and there, especially in popular accessible works. Chopin op. 63 no. 3 mazurka, quite a few stretches there near the end. And I can play them comfortably~

Be jealous hobbits!

Offline outin

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Re: Standard Piano Keyboard Size And Discrimination ?
«Reply #12 on: November 18, 2015, 10:22:58 AM »

in the old days, people (Europeans) were smaller in average. These aren't the olden days. I still need hard proof that theres a large pool of ADULT females that are incapable of reaching octaves, and just how many of them are serious pianists...


I guess you didn't do your homework...it's not only about reaching the octave but how comfortably you can play in general  ;)

Offline mjames

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Re: Standard Piano Keyboard Size And Discrimination ?
«Reply #13 on: November 18, 2015, 12:04:38 PM »
Yeah i get that. Large chords are pretty common in romantic and post-romantic music. I can't imagine not being able to hit all those delicious chords.

9th and 10th chords can be especially delicious if its used correctly.

Offline outin

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Re: Standard Piano Keyboard Size And Discrimination ?
«Reply #14 on: November 18, 2015, 12:19:52 PM »
Yeah i get that. Large chords are pretty common in romantic and post-romantic music. I can't imagine not being able to hit all those delicious chords.

9th and 10th chords can be especially delicious if its used correctly.
It's not only the very large chords. If the octave is your max reach, you will already be a little uncomfortable with playing them. If you can reach a 10th, you can play octaves with much less strain. And octaves are everywhere :)

Offline jasper14

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Re: Standard Piano Keyboard Size And Discrimination ?
«Reply #15 on: December 04, 2015, 08:26:18 PM »

  https://www.gopetition.com/petitions/pask-piano.html

 Pianist and teachers may want to consider signing this PASK online petition for the introduction of two new smaller piano keyboard size 'standards' (small- 5.5-7/8 and medium- 6.0-15/16) from big manufacturers.

I do appreciate the majority of the piano playing community do not fully support the concept....

Online perfect_pitch

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Re: Standard Piano Keyboard Size And Discrimination ?
«Reply #16 on: December 05, 2015, 12:36:01 AM »
Given how pretty much every single post you type is to advertise this type of smaller keyboard... I refuse to sign that simply on the basis of you being a spammer. You continually post to regurgitate a topic that was put to bed, buried and left to decompose...

...and yet you still come over, every now and then to dig the remains up. It has no merit, no real use in the real world - so just accept it and...



Please stop spamming this forum with your posts.