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Chopin-Liszt relationship (Read 8322 times)

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Chopin-Liszt relationship
« on: November 07, 2015, 04:26:34 AM »
I don't know much about Chopin and Liszt's thoughts of one another much. Hwoever, I know that they were friends, and occasionally rivals. Also, Chopin's Etudes were dedicated to Liszt. (Excepting the Nouvelle Etudes). I also know that Liszt did a set of transcriptions of Chopin's Songs, entitled "Polnische Lieder".

What else? Are there any letters of Chopin and Liszt talking behind each other's backs? What did they say? Was it mainly positive or negative?

Also, what pieces did Liszt dedicate to Chopin? I know "dedication" isn't actually a big deal, but Liszt was a generous man, so I'm sure he did something to replace Chopin's kindness. (?)

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: Chopin-Liszt relationship
«Reply #1 on: November 07, 2015, 04:36:30 AM »
Ooooh I just looked some of it up on Wikipedia.... it is really spiced up with tales of romance and jealousy lol:

From Wikipedia's "Frederic Chopin" article:
Quote
Although it is not known exactly when Chopin first met Liszt after arriving in Paris, on 12 December 1831 he mentioned in a letter to his friend Woyciechowski that "I have met Rossini, Cherubini, Baillot, etc.—also Kalkbrenner. You would not believe how curious I was about Herz, Liszt, Hiller, etc."[53] Liszt was in attendance at Chopin's Parisian debut on 26 February 1832 at the Salle Pleyel, which led him to remark: "The most vigorous applause seemed not to suffice to our enthusiasm in the presence of this talented musician, who revealed a new phase of poetic sentiment combined with such happy innovation in the form of his art."[54]

The two became friends, and for many years lived in close proximity in Paris, Chopin at 38 Rue de la Chaussée-d'Antin, and Liszt at the Hôtel de France on the Rue Lafitte, a few blocks away.[55] They performed together on seven occasions between 1833 and 1841. The first, on 2 April 1833, was at a benefit concert organized by Hector Berlioz for his bankrupt Shakespearean actress wife Harriet Smithson, during which they played George Onslow's Sonata in F minor for piano duet.[54] Later joint appearances included a benefit concert for the Benevolent Association of Polish Ladies in Paris.[54] Their last appearance together in public was for a charity concert conducted for the Beethoven Memorial in Bonn, held at the Salle Pleyel and the Paris Conservatory on 25 and 26 April 1841.[54]

Although the two displayed great respect and admiration for each other, their friendship was uneasy and had some qualities of a love-hate relationship. Harold C. Schonberg believes that Chopin displayed a "tinge of jealousy and spite" towards Liszt's virtuosity on the piano,[55] and others have also argued that he had become enchanted with Liszt's theatricality, showmanship and success.[56] Liszt was the dedicatee of Chopin's Op. 10 Études, and his performance of them prompted the composer to write to Hiller, "I should like to rob him of the way he plays my studies."[57] However, Chopin expressed annoyance in 1843 when Liszt performed one of his nocturnes with the addition of numerous intricate embellishments, at which Chopin remarked that he should play the music as written or not play it at all, forcing an apology. Most biographers of Chopin state that after this the two had little to do with each other, although in his letters dated as late as 1848 he still referred to him as "my friend Liszt".[55] Some commentators point to events in the two men's romantic lives which led to a rift between them; there are claims that Liszt had displayed jealousy of his mistress Marie d'Agoult's obsession with Chopin, while others believe that Chopin had become concerned about Liszt's growing relationship with George Sand.[54]

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: Chopin-Liszt relationship
«Reply #2 on: November 07, 2015, 04:47:10 AM »
Also,
"No one compares to him[Chopin]: he shines lonely, peerless in the firmament of art.”
   -Franz Liszt

" I would love myself to acquire from him[Liszt]  the manner in which he plays my etudes."
      -Frederic Chopin

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: Chopin-Liszt relationship
«Reply #3 on: November 07, 2015, 04:56:33 AM »
However, accrding to Wikipedia:
 
"There were some pieces which Liszt famously refused to hear at his masterclasses. Among them were Carl Tausig's transcription of J. S. Bach's organ Toccata and Fugue in D minor, and Chopin's Scherzo No. 2 in B-flat minor. Liszt also did not like to hear his own Polonaise No. 2 in E Major."

Offline swagmaster420x

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Re: Chopin-Liszt relationship
«Reply #4 on: November 07, 2015, 07:43:22 AM »
I find this extremely interesting, actually, especially the friend-rival relationship they had and the tension in it.

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: Chopin-Liszt relationship
«Reply #5 on: November 07, 2015, 04:13:19 PM »
I find this extremely interesting, actually, especially the friend-rival relationship they had and the tension in it.

There are some spiced up stories. even on trustworthy websites.

Some say that Chopin was jealous of Liszt because of his high technical ability, and perhaps also Liszt's growing relationship with George Sand.

Some say that Liszt was jealous of Chopin because of composition. Chopin was an acclaimed composer, while Liszt's original compositions rarely received any thought. He was primarily famous for his fantasies. Also, there are spicy stories about how Liszt was  jealous of Chopin, because Liszt's girlfriend, Daniel Stern (aka Marie d'Agoult), showed a strong fascination with Chopin....


I think most of this is BS, but it would make good material for dcstudio's "Fifty Shades of Franz".

Offline outin

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Re: Chopin-Liszt relationship
«Reply #6 on: November 07, 2015, 06:54:41 PM »
After Chopin died, Liszt wrote a whole book about him, you can read it online here:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/4386/4386-h/4386-h.htm

The accuracy of some details may be questionable...but you should read it anyway  :)

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: Chopin-Liszt relationship
«Reply #7 on: November 08, 2015, 02:36:56 AM »
My, my... Liszt certainly gave Chopin the reputation of a forbidden fruit eater, didn't he?  ;D

Offline schumaniac

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Re: Chopin-Liszt relationship
«Reply #8 on: November 08, 2015, 02:48:14 AM »
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