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Topic: Scriabin Sonatas  (Read 4276 times)

Offline jy_

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Scriabin Sonatas
on: December 02, 2015, 02:05:49 PM
Recently been to the local music bookshop and saw a couple of editions Scriabin sonatas (which are *thankfully* not by Dover) :

1) Barenreiter (In 2 books) edited by Marc Andre Hamelin
2) Individual Henle editions of the sonatas.

Any Scriabin expert here able to point out which to recommend?

Offline visitor

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Re: Scriabin Sonatas
Reply #1 on: December 02, 2015, 02:26:03 PM
those are premium publishers, there's not a 'bad option' on the table. personally have and like the old out of print now [but still available cheap in the used market] MCA edited by Harold Sheldon. These are excellent. No fingerings in mine that I recall. Henle may have some fingerings if you're into that, i find suggested fingerings useless most of the time (except for a cool edition of some Kapustin that really helped me in some 'twister' passages).

I would personally spend 5 dollars and 4 to ship (no tax) and get the whole set in an excellent edition out the door for 10.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0018FLXAW/ref=tmm_pap_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr=

I'm not sure that Henle does a 'complete' but they may  have finally gotten around to it.
The only other publisher I have and like/used for Scriabin are IMC (hard to find) and MP Baleif , the latter does some of the sontas
https://www.belaieff-music.com/shop/en_UK/artists/1/show,17856.html

i have the Fantasy in B Minor in IMC, which is not usually included in 'sonatas' sets , but it's basically a sonata and plays,sounds like one, it's actually my favorite of all Scriabin sonatas, all Scriabin works, and in my top 3 of all piano pieces i have ever heard/looked it, a bucket list type piece for me, i recc you pick that up in any edition you can find if you are 'collecting' the whole set

Offline mjames

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Re: Scriabin Sonatas
Reply #2 on: December 02, 2015, 05:57:02 PM
SCRIABIN IS MAGIC

Offline quantum

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Re: Scriabin Sonatas
Reply #3 on: December 03, 2015, 04:39:38 AM
Flipped through the Barenreiter recently in a music shop.  There are a lot of extra goodies in there including the G# minor and E-flat minor without opus numbers.  Extensive commentary as well.  Apparently the edition is supposed to be in 4 volumes and is not yet completed.  

I've also seen Könemann volumes.  As in the tradition of Könemann, excellent by all means.  Unfortunately, they are difficult to find now.  

Of course there is the Dover.  Some people complain about the print quality, but if you can get past it, and recognize the few obvious engraving errors, it won't break the bank.  These are reprints from Russian editions. IMO the misgivings are more about the print and engraving, rather than content.

Staying away from the yellow and green covered edition would probably be a wise choice.  You know, that one.  There are better options if you are under a budget.  

I've always liked the Peters edition.  Lots of fingering and good layout.  

Speaking of fingering, it is not absolutely necessary to get an edition with them.  However, having the few instances of Scriabin's own indicated fingering is very helpful.  It will help clarify a lot of things in tricky passages.  
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline jy_

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Re: Scriabin Sonatas
Reply #4 on: December 03, 2015, 07:12:22 PM
Thanks for the replies! Yeah the commentary is much longer than the Henle. I usually purchase the scores just to read the commentaries (otherwise I would probably have printed them off the web) so that is quite important when it comes to making a decision.

The Konemann version is ancient :) 

I think the yellow and green version (correct me if i am wrong on editorial details) edited by Belaieff (published by MPP?) provides the bulk of Scriabin's other works - so there isn't much of a choice if I wanted to get (for example), the Poemes Op.32?

I tend to be quite lazy, so if there's a weird passage I almost always depend on editorial fingering first and try to work from there (although most of the time I end up not following them).

On an unrelated sidenote, which Sonata is a good starter (presumably it should be one of the first 5)? I think #8 is beautiful, and #10, but these 2 are probably rather difficult.

Offline quantum

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Re: Scriabin Sonatas
Reply #5 on: December 03, 2015, 10:24:21 PM
Peters and Dover have the bulk of the piano solo work.  I've seen the Op.32 in Dover, Peters and Könemann. 

It would be interesting to do a comparison between the yellow and green edition and some of the others. 

The sonatas range in difficulty from difficult, more difficult and insanely difficult.  Pick the one you like, just be prepared to spend time on it.  If you really get the style of the later sonatas, I don't really see any reason to stay away from them.  Don't underestimate the difficulty of earlier sonatas that deal in more conventional tonality. 

You mention #8 and #10.  I think #8 has some of the most delicious chords penned by Scriabin.  Probably not the best starter though.  Did you have a look at #9, it is likely less technically daunting for a first sonata.
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline davidjosepha

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Re: Scriabin Sonatas
Reply #6 on: December 04, 2015, 01:53:07 AM
Can someone explain what's wrong with the Belaieff?

Offline diomedes

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Re: Scriabin Sonatas
Reply #7 on: December 04, 2015, 12:14:54 PM
Quote
On an unrelated sidenote, which Sonata is a good starter (presumably it should be one of the first 5)? I think #8 is beautiful, and #10, but these 2 are probably rather difficult.

Number 8 is possibly the most difficult due to its complexity. I'm considering learning it over the winter, the double notes are an issue as well, and in some instances like John Ogdon there's a tendency to simplify by using 2 hands for those runs in order to achieve a fantastically fast tempo. I've recorded and performed the bulk of the others but this one makes me uneasy. I'd always tell people to start with Sonata 2 or 9.

Editions, I used Schirmer in the past, but lately i grew impatient with their translation of Scriabins markings into english from french. I find that alienating. I used Peters for a while, but it's over edited. I used Peters to prepare for a performance of some of the mazurkas of scriabin and shortly after went out and bought the Dover.

I find the Dover edition to be clean and i prefer no fuss and no input from editions because i've been in love with this music since i was about 16. The Dover edition for the Sonatas one has one setback which is that it's a physically reduced score, so mor page turns if you are learning it from the piano and score standpoint. For me, Dover is perfect because i usually commit music to memory before taking it to the piano.

Könemann is the same as Dover in most aspects in my experiences.

I looked at the Barenreiter edition, but despite the publicity that Hamelin has attained by lending his invention to the editorial field, i'm not too attracted to his input. I'm learning op.39 by Rachmaninov right now, and I know Hamelin has edited that for Henle so i should make comparisons once i get more of the work learned.

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Can someone explain what's wrong with the Belaieff?

I don't think they have an extensive catalogue or are available. I have the score for the piano concerto by that publisher.
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I think #8 has some of the most delicious chords penned by Scriabin.

Yes, harmonically 6, 7 and 8 are like drugs and narcotics to me.

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2) Individual Henle editions of the sonatas.

I had the Henle when i was learning Sonata 6 a couple years back, although i doubt i had a strong attachment to the ideas in it. I can't say that for me personally the fingerings among other things were worth any kind of detour, I probably used my bland Shirmer at the time.
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