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Topic: The op. 49 disappointment  (Read 2755 times)

Offline mjames

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The op. 49 disappointment
on: January 04, 2016, 10:14:35 AM
Anyone else feel completely betrayed and just utterly disappointed by Chopin's Fantasie? From the grave and doppio movimento up until the end of the march-like passage is probably one of my favorite "Chopin moments" ever. Filled with unbelievable  inspiration coupled with unsuspecting changes through rhythm, temperament, and modulation. Truly in every sense of the word it was a Fantasie!!

...And then the atmosphere the piece had built up was completely ruined by the unnecessary repetition and the lento section. I think it's probably the only work of Chopin's that i abhor simply because of the reason it just completely loses the spontaneity that the first half of the piece exhibits.

Thoughts?


 

Offline daniele1234

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Re: The op. 49 disappointment
Reply #1 on: January 04, 2016, 11:18:00 AM
Really! I feel that it is (the Lento section) one of the most inspired moments of the piece - I guess are musical taste is different!
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Offline kawai_cs

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Re: The op. 49 disappointment
Reply #2 on: January 04, 2016, 08:41:57 PM
Well, I feel disappointed and betrayed a lot by some Chopin pieces. It is just that my reason is a different one. There are always a few bars or more often fractions of bars that I can't play nicely (or up to tempo) and it ruins the whole piece for me. Then I feel betrayed because all of that work and I  can't even post such piece in Audition room ;)
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Offline forte88

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Re: The op. 49 disappointment
Reply #3 on: January 04, 2016, 09:11:51 PM
Many of Chopin's pieces have parts that you wished he'd left out, often very technically challenging but not so nice to listen to. This is actually a piece I learnt myself last year and I can't even remember the part you're referring to :(  but I thoroughly enjoyed the whole piece. I think a lot of classical pieces suffer from that 'fault' repeating the theme in a different key with a slight variance and often with an added complication. Boring to learn, but it does always sound good when you listen to it.

Offline preludetr

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Re: The op. 49 disappointment
Reply #4 on: January 05, 2016, 08:17:58 AM
That is one of my very favorite Chopin pieces and I never personally felt there was any problem with it, but I do see what you mean. In just about any piece of music, you can find certain things that you would have done differently. We all have different tastes and the composition is coming from the composer's own mind, not your mind.

Offline rubinsteinmad

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Re: The op. 49 disappointment
Reply #5 on: January 07, 2016, 02:48:06 AM
Dear mjames,
  I think instead of critisizing these masterpieces, you can focus on their many beauties (as you have done with Medtner and Lyadov). Personally, I've disliked the Fantasie for a while, but recently I had a "revelation" while listening to Kate Liu and Zimerman play it.

Offline mjames

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Re: The op. 49 disappointment
Reply #6 on: January 07, 2016, 07:20:26 AM
Dear mjames,
  I think instead of critisizing these masterpieces, you can focus on their many beauties (as you have done with Medtner and Lyadov).

I can do both? It's just a musical discussion, I mean isn't that what this forum is for?

Offline piulento

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Re: The op. 49 disappointment
Reply #7 on: January 22, 2016, 09:25:27 PM
The lento section is the more mature, introvert part of the piece, and I like it just as much. The other parts are amazing, but you still have to have that "moment" that pulls the piece together and gives it that extra dimension.
Just think what the Polonaise Fantasie would sound like without the part in B major. You'd have so much stuff going on you couldn't wrap your head around it. A long scale romantic piece needs a moment that let's you take a breath and really get into the piece.

Offline isaach

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Re: The op. 49 disappointment
Reply #8 on: January 25, 2016, 02:53:01 AM
I agree completely! Some of my favorite Chopin pieces, have terrible, to-fast or to-slow interludes which make them feel ridiculous! The Nocturnes are especially guilty of this. I'll pick them up every once in a while for a read, thinking, "why haven't I learned this one before?", and I feel the thrill that I always get when faced with a prospective piece of rep- then I turn the page, and go oh, right. Sheiße! Then I imagine myself editing out the section cleverly, or adding something to make it more tasty, for about 5 seconds until I move on and forget about it again; leaving behind a inspiration gouging landmine of sorts. 

Offline stoudemirestat

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Re: The op. 49 disappointment
Reply #9 on: January 25, 2016, 06:29:26 AM
I've always found this piece terribly boring. I doubt it will stay this way though.

Offline josh93248

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Re: The op. 49 disappointment
Reply #10 on: January 25, 2016, 07:31:03 AM
The fantasie is excellent in my opinion even if arguably flawed, I'd argue it also is dreadfully difficult to interpret well and make it all sound cohesive so maybe people should take that into consideration.
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Offline klavieronin

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Re: The op. 49 disappointment
Reply #11 on: January 29, 2016, 01:40:20 AM
Hi everybody, first post on pianostreet forums.

When I read the title of this thread I thought it was going to be about Beethoven's Op.49, which I am very disappointed by I must say. The rest of his sonatas are such a monument to artistic achievement it seems like such a shame to throw in a couple of juvenile (by which I mean, composed at an early age) pieces right in the middle.

Regarding Chopin's Op.49, I was listening to it the other day and thinking how underated it is. No disappointment here I'm glad to say.

Offline diomedes

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Re: The op. 49 disappointment
Reply #12 on: January 29, 2016, 02:14:42 AM
I'm exactly with the above. Chopin op.49 is something I'd consider spending time with one day, I'm not entirely familiar with it's architecture however.

Beethoven op.49, I'm not sure why anyone other than a student would approach this.
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Offline pencilart3

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Re: The op. 49 disappointment
Reply #13 on: January 29, 2016, 03:01:17 AM
Haha, I was just finishing it as I read your post. :)
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Offline preludetr

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Re: The op. 49 disappointment
Reply #14 on: January 29, 2016, 03:52:14 AM
Hi everybody, first post on pianostreet forums.

When I read the title of this thread I thought it was going to be about Beethoven's Op.49, which I am very disappointed by I must say. The rest of his sonatas are such a monument to artistic achievement it seems like such a shame to throw in a couple of juvenile (by which I mean, composed at an early age) pieces right in the middle.

Regarding Chopin's Op.49, I was listening to it the other day and thinking how underated it is. No disappointment here I'm glad to say.

If you believe Andras Schiff, Beethoven wrote those sonatas for pedagogical purposes. People learning to play the piano need high quality music that isn't too difficult. Not everything has to be intended for advanced concert pianists. They are great pieces for what they are.

Offline klavieronin

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Re: The op. 49 disappointment
Reply #15 on: January 29, 2016, 04:24:47 AM
If you believe Andras Schiff, Beethoven wrote those sonatas for pedagogical purposes. People learning to play the piano need high quality music that isn't too difficult. Not everything has to be intended for advanced concert pianists. They are great pieces for what they are.
Interesting, I didn't know that. Still, even if that's true I can't help but feel like maybe he dumbed-down the music a little too much. I mean the bagatelles are wonderful and some of those aren't all that difficult.
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