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Topic: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?  (Read 5827 times)

Offline 2pac_lives

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Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
on: January 05, 2016, 05:52:15 PM
This is my first post here, it's great to have a community of fellow piano players to talk to. I've been playing since I was 6 and I'm 28 now, so I've been on the bench for about 22 years. My favorite composers to play are Bach, Rachmaninov, Scriabin, and Schubert, but especially Rachmaninov--when I play his pieces I really get into it, I almost feel like I'm channeling the composer himself...

I haven't attempted any of Rachmaninov's concertos, so I'm wondering which is the best place to start. I've played and/or performed almost all of his preludes and etudes and I've also briefly studied the composer's personal and political background, so I think I have a good understanding of his musicality.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
rach prlds c#m, g#m, cm, moment mx 3
scriabin prds, etds (a bunch)
chopin prds, etds (several)
liszt un sospiro
schumann (some)
bach concerto Fm
schubert impromptus (3)
hot cross buns backwards

Offline kawai_cs

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #1 on: January 05, 2016, 08:08:45 PM
I almost feel like I'm channeling the composer himself...

I haven't attempted any of Rachmaninov's concertos, so I'm wondering which is the best place to start. I've played and/or performed almost all of his preludes and etudes and I've also briefly studied the composer's personal and political background, so I think I have a good understanding of his musicality.


Oh, how modest...
With this extensive knowledge and profound understanding of Rachmaninov's musicality you have to ask on the forum which piece to play next? ::)
Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

Offline visitor

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #2 on: January 05, 2016, 08:16:51 PM
...I have a good understanding of his musicality.
...
can you help me? I would like to know what musicality is.

Offline mjames

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #3 on: January 05, 2016, 08:23:35 PM
Finally! A troll that might follow in the footsteps of notable ones like 89_keys(was that his name?! It has been so long that I've even forgotten it!) has surfaced. The site has been a bit dry lately, I miss reading posts like these. Stick around troll, don't leave too soon. Just because you're obvious, not clever, and not original whatsoever doesn't mean your posts won't be appreciated by me.

Enjoy the site.

Sincerely,

An avid lover of idiots.

Offline kawai_cs

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #4 on: January 05, 2016, 08:36:02 PM
can you help me? I would like to know what musicality is.

 :D +1

Indeed mjames, this is the perfect expression: the site has been a little "dry" recently hahaha :D
Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

Offline 2pac_lives

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #5 on: January 05, 2016, 08:54:55 PM
Finally! A troll that might follow in the footsteps of notable ones like 89_keys(was that his name?! It has been so long that I've even forgotten it!) has surfaced. The site has been a bit dry lately, I miss reading posts like these. Stick around troll, don't leave too soon. Just because you're obvious, not clever, and not original whatsoever doesn't mean your posts won't be appreciated by me.

Enjoy the site.

Sincerely,

An avid lover of idiots.



Whoa!  Looks like I joined this site on the wrong day.  :-\ Seriously, guys?  This is how you welcome a new member to your "dry" forum?  No wonder it's, ahem... "dry".

I guess I'll be searching for this dude "89_keys"'s posts to see what isn't, uh, "appreciated" on the Piano Street forums.

Yikes  :-X
rach prlds c#m, g#m, cm, moment mx 3
scriabin prds, etds (a bunch)
chopin prds, etds (several)
liszt un sospiro
schumann (some)
bach concerto Fm
schubert impromptus (3)
hot cross buns backwards

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #6 on: January 05, 2016, 09:04:20 PM
I've been playing since I was 6 and I'm 28 now, so I've been on the bench for about 22 years.

Well, there is nothing wrong with your maths.

Thal
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Concerto Preservation Society

Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #7 on: January 05, 2016, 09:21:36 PM
I've not yet heard a student answer a teacher even once when asked why he/she started working on a piece that because was chosen by an internet forum for him/her.

I dont know..ee nee my nee mo. catch a tiger by the toe. choose one.


I only play a handful of a prelude, or etude, or sonata part from any one of the composers but they are specifically chosen, by me, because the specific piece touched/inspired me in some way, or, I always enjoyed that piece for ages and always wanted to learn it.

Not because I needed to 'carve out another notch on the bedpost'.
oh, havent gotten a concerto in my rep. not yet.. i gotta have a concerto in my rep. gotta have one. I'll show dem I m well-rounded...
huh? no. Music is personal.
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Offline abbyes

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #8 on: January 05, 2016, 09:33:02 PM
I've not yet heard a student answer a teacher even once when asked why he/she started working on a piece that because was chosen by an internet forum for him/her.

I dont know..ee nee my nee mo. catch a tiger by the toe. choose one.


I only play a handful of a prelude, or etude, or sonata part from any one of the composers but they are specifically chosen, by me, because the specific piece touched/inspired me in some way, or, I always enjoyed that piece for ages and always wanted to learn it.

Not because I needed to 'carve out another notch on the bedpost'.
oh, havent gotten a concerto in my rep. not yet.. i gotta have a concerto in my rep. gotta have one. I'll show dem I m well-rounded...
huh? no. Music is personal.

I dont get it at all. There are tons of people in this forum who asks for pieces or repertoire recommendantion. I do not think that this user is wrong asking for what Rachmaninoff concert he should begin with.

I mean, he's not saying " tell me what rachmaninoff concert I will play next " , he's just asking for suggestions...so I dont get all of this hate to this user. I do not get either why do you call him troll. I may be an idiot then  :-\

Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #9 on: January 05, 2016, 09:38:44 PM
Hi, I dont get why there is  responding he is a troll here too.

But my answer , (perhaps you just quoted me but wanted to refer to the responses in general) is focused only on replying to him, like I always do. Look through my replies history, this is my style of response , I just take the requests or questions for face value, my answers will be (hopefully) insightful whether I am responding to him or dcstudio.

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Rondo Alla Turca

Offline abbyes

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #10 on: January 05, 2016, 09:56:40 PM
I'm sorry then. I though that you replied that just to him, but if this is your responding style to this type of question then I apologize. Nevertheless I do not share that opinion ( but that doesnt matter now ). I just quoted you, but yes, I ended talking about all the replies in general.

To this new user, I'll just try to answer him assuming he's not the "troll" they all think he is.

Of the 4 concertos Rachmaninoff wrote for piano and orchestra, my favourite in my opinion is the second one. But well, a subjetive opinion means nothing in this case and may not be useful for you.

Technically demanding, this is easier than the 3rd concerto ( despite Rachmaninoff said that 3rd was easier than 2nd for him because the third was more naturally to his fingers ). Anyway, if you have played all his preludes and etudes, and you've been playing for that long, I think you'll make it work out for every concert.

I recommend you to start by the second concerto, due to it's popularity and musical structure. I really love all the movements. The beauty of this concert is absolute.

Anyway, all his concerts are amazing haha. I cannot give you more than a subjetive opinion. Since you're so familiar with him, there's no need for me to talk to you about the structure of the piece and it's history ( Anyway you can find everything about this in internet or books :p )

 ;)



Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #11 on: January 05, 2016, 10:07:55 PM
Yes, I am biased free when it comes to people, posters, threads.

BUT I do respond in a sort of blunt or sharp manner towards any type of question /comment/remark/ request that is reflective of the many stubbornly unteachable intermediate level music students I have class with who believe they something special because they can learn some complex materially fast notewise and in fast tempo, but sounds like mush oatmeal from beginning to end of performance.
Not saying this is for the OP, just the remarks posed reminded me of that sort of stuff from these students I see all the time ... :)

But definitely not a troll and I believe in all sincerity, and it is ok for these students to ask these questions because I get to tell them my response(s) and they can either take it or not.
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Offline 2pac_lives

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #12 on: January 05, 2016, 10:26:17 PM
To this new user, I'll just try to answer him assuming he's not the "troll" they all think he is.

Of the 4 concertos Rachmaninoff wrote for piano and orchestra, my favourite in my opinion is the second one. But well, a subjetive opinion means nothing in this case and may not be useful for you.

I love them all, I can't really decide which is my favorite. The second one has a ton of beautiful moments, I agree.

Quote
Technically demanding, this is easier than the 3rd concerto ( despite Rachmaninoff said that 3rd was easier than 2nd for him because the third was more naturally to his fingers ). Anyway, if you have played all his preludes and etudes, and you've been playing for that long, I think you'll make it work out for every concert.

I recommend you to start by the second concerto, due to it's popularity and musical structure. I really love all the movements. The beauty of this concert is absolute.

Anyway, all his concerts are amazing haha. I cannot give you more than a subjetive opinion. Since you're so familiar with him, there's no need for me to talk to you about the structure of the piece and it's history ( Anyway you can find everything about this in internet or books :p )

 ;)

I was holding off on ordering the sheet music because I didn't know which concerto would be appropriate to start with from a technical standpoint.  I didn't mention this in my first post but I've been traveling abroad for the past 2 years and I think my technique may need to be brought back up to speed. Even as someone who has played a lot of Rachmaninov, I imagine the concertos are more demanding than any of the preludes/etudes. The 3rd mvmt of the 3rd is a little intimidating, especially.

Think I'm gonna go order the second one then. Thanks for the suggestion!  8)
rach prlds c#m, g#m, cm, moment mx 3
scriabin prds, etds (a bunch)
chopin prds, etds (several)
liszt un sospiro
schumann (some)
bach concerto Fm
schubert impromptus (3)
hot cross buns backwards

Offline coda_colossale

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #13 on: January 05, 2016, 10:38:32 PM
Wow, I really have a hard time understanding the hostility of this community. He might as well be a troll, just answer the damn question lol.

Anyways, I second abbyes' answer. The 1st 2nd I think are easier to make sense of and surely not as technically and musically challenging as the 3rd or the 4th concerti, and among the two an average pianist would be more motivated to learn the 2nd.

Offline abbyes

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #14 on: January 05, 2016, 10:40:07 PM
I love them all, I can't really decide which is my favorite. The second one has a ton of beautiful moments, I agree.

I was holding off on ordering the sheet music because I didn't know which concerto would be appropriate to start with from a technical standpoint.  I didn't mention this in my first post but I've been traveling abroad for the past 2 years and I think my technique may need to be brought back up to speed. Even as someone who has played a lot of Rachmaninov, I imagine the concertos are more demanding than any of the preludes/etudes. The 3rd mvmt of the 3rd is a little intimidating, especially.

Think I'm gonna go order the second one then. Thanks for the suggestion!  8)


Indeed, the second has a lot of beautiful moments. I gotta love those chords at the beggining of the first movement which creates that incredible tension, and then....BANG! , it resolves with the introduction of the first theme, the orchest playing that russian melody accompagnied by the arpeggios on the piano. The second theme in E flat major, is amazingly beautiful, so lyric, so musical....and the end of the first movement, on the climax of the movement...it's just....breathtaking.

And to describe the beauty of the second movement, I just have no words hahaha.




And yes, the third concert is in my opinion way harder and very technical demanding ( dont missunderstand me, all of his concerts are ). Just take it with calm and enjoy it !!

Even if you've been traveling 2 years, you'll soon catch it up in time. I would really love to see recordings when you learn it !


Best wishes !

Offline kawai_cs

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #15 on: January 05, 2016, 11:07:44 PM
Wow, I really have a hard time understanding the hostility of this community. He might as well be a troll, just answer the damn question lol.


I don't think I was being hostile. I was, well, surprised and expressed it. I think it is better if people tell what they think and reply than not getting any response at all, which is often the case here. Some threads get many reads but no replies.
Now, they got the response and suggestions as well.
Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #16 on: January 06, 2016, 01:40:07 AM
Wow, I really have a hard time understanding the hostility of this community. He might as well be a troll, just answer the damn question lol.

Speaking from your personal experience I am thinking?

No one is hostile. Maybe you?

I believe everyone prior to you spoke in a manner of fun and casual conversation but unfortunately because it is strictly text, it is interpreted entirely different by different people according to who they are I guess.
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Offline mjames

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #17 on: January 06, 2016, 07:40:46 AM
Not only does his writing style resemble a typical/senseless troll but just take a look at his signature. If I had joined this site before I began playing piano (the time I was infatuated with 'popular' classical music) and if I also intended as coming off as a "genius expert 1000 power level musician" then my signature would have looked exactly like that. Just think, how many concert-level(Ariel, Rondo, Awesome, Perfect Pitch etc) pianists actually come here and ask what they should play? Not to mention being unable to gauge the difficulty of a concerto. But hey, benefit of the doubt! He really might be that talented and musically illiterate at the same time...unnnntillll you read this:

schubert etudes


in his signature.


Seriously, he's messing with you all. Save your benefit of the doubt for someone that deserves it. It's not hostility, it's just being able to spot falseness or at least the fact that he's more worried about impressing others than actually discussing the music..

but hey, i might be wrong. : ]

Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #18 on: January 06, 2016, 09:21:25 AM
^ ok, that's hostile .   :P
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Offline visitor

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #19 on: January 06, 2016, 03:02:19 PM
once op helps me learn what musicality is, i hope i can get help with using musicality to master the schubert etudes.  my playing power level right now is only at level russet potato. I hope to reach over 9000 someday.


sorry if off topic and i should have started new thread asking for this help but Op seemed best suited to help me.

here is a a piano potato.

Offline 2pac_lives

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #20 on: January 06, 2016, 04:04:19 PM

Indeed, the second has a lot of beautiful moments. I gotta love those chords at the beggining of the first movement which creates that incredible tension, and then....BANG! , it resolves with the introduction of the first theme, the orchest playing that russian melody accompagnied by the arpeggios on the piano.

That progression, it displays the same musical thinking as the end of the prelude in C# minor, it's a pure play with tension in between the dominant and tonic notes, I f***ing love it.
rach prlds c#m, g#m, cm, moment mx 3
scriabin prds, etds (a bunch)
chopin prds, etds (several)
liszt un sospiro
schumann (some)
bach concerto Fm
schubert impromptus (3)
hot cross buns backwards

Offline 2pac_lives

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #21 on: January 06, 2016, 04:06:16 PM
I'm just going to uh, ignore my initial reception here.  I don't know if some of you noticed but I mentioned that I've been traveling abroad for a couple years, absolutely piano-less, and I think my technique has taken a hit so I was simply looking for advice about which rach concerto to start with.

Everyone have a nice day!
rach prlds c#m, g#m, cm, moment mx 3
scriabin prds, etds (a bunch)
chopin prds, etds (several)
liszt un sospiro
schumann (some)
bach concerto Fm
schubert impromptus (3)
hot cross buns backwards

Offline abbyes

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #22 on: January 06, 2016, 04:16:32 PM
Woow such a hate here !

Not only does his writing style resemble a typical/senseless troll but just take a look at his signature. If I had joined this site before I began playing piano (the time I was infatuated with 'popular' classical music) and if I also intended as coming off as a "genius expert 1000 power level musician" then my signature would have looked exactly like that. Just think, how many concert-level(Ariel, Rondo, Awesome, Perfect Pitch etc) pianists actually come here and ask what they should play? Not to mention being unable to gauge the difficulty of a concerto. But hey, benefit of the doubt! He really might be that talented and musically illiterate at the same time...unnnntillll you read this:

schubert etudes


in his signature.


Seriously, he's messing with you all. Save your benefit of the doubt for someone that deserves it. It's not hostility, it's just being able to spot falseness or at least the fact that he's more worried about impressing others than actually discussing the music..

but hey, i might be wrong. : ]

If he has played it what's wrong with it ? I created this account a few days ago and I didnt know what signature was, if not I would have put pieces I've played too !

Also, he never said he was a professional piano player or a concertist. He just said he was playing piano for 22 years, he may be a professional or not...He also said that he hasnt played a lot for the last 2 years since he was on a trip...so I do not think that he's a professional concertist...

Despite of the "Schubert etudes" in his signature ( which can be understandable, since I've seen so many people misspelling Schubert for Schumann and vice versa ; I've commited that mistake too. ), so he may have refered to Schumann symphonic etudes...

Do not missunderstand me, I do not know if he's a troll or not, I'm just assuming HE'S NOT. But you seem to confirm that HE IS. And I dont find any point in this hostility.





once op helps me learn what musicality is, i hope i can get help with using musicality to master the schubert etudes.  my playing power level right now is only at level russet potato. I hope to reach over 9000 someday.


sorry if off topic and i should have started new thread asking for this help but Op seemed best suited to help me.


Despite I've really laughed at this, I think that this continious attack of sarcasm to OP is kinda hostile, I hope that this is not what this community really is....

In general, if you wont answer what he asked for, seriously, I dont get the point on replying him calling him troll even if he is. You dont like him, dont answer him, pass on...You're free to give your opinion ? yes you are, but what's the point in this case ? If he's the troll you think he is, replying him is not the best way to treat him.

Personally, I prefer to trust people instead of being sceptic. If not, there's no point on being a community :S

I'm not going to respond any further, sorry for the off-topic.

Sorry for bad english,

Best wishes !

Offline 2pac_lives

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #23 on: January 06, 2016, 04:26:40 PM

Despite of the "Schubert etudes" in his signature ( which can be understandable, since I've seen so many people misspelling Schubert for Schumann and vice versa ; I've commited that mistake too. ), so he may have refered to Schumann symphonic etudes...

I meant Schubert impromptus, I hastily threw a sig together and made a mistake. No wonder everyone thought I was a troll... that must have been it.
rach prlds c#m, g#m, cm, moment mx 3
scriabin prds, etds (a bunch)
chopin prds, etds (several)
liszt un sospiro
schumann (some)
bach concerto Fm
schubert impromptus (3)
hot cross buns backwards

Offline briansaddleback

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #24 on: January 06, 2016, 06:31:07 PM
i like the impromptu 90-2. I should go back to it to rework it the ending page that is. So hard.
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Offline kawai_cs

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #25 on: January 06, 2016, 10:04:38 PM
I will just make a few points before I quit replying to this thread.
OP's reception was an adequate result of their way of presenting themselves.
Nobody here was actually hostile - people read, perceive and react. There is action and reaction - it is what it is. Community consists of individuals. It is normal that people perceive things differently (e.g. some can read between the lines, some can't) and react differently. The ability to accept each other's distinctness is what makes a community, indeed.

Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

Offline 2pac_lives

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #26 on: January 06, 2016, 11:17:17 PM
I will just make a few points before I quit replying to this thread.
OP's reception was an adequate result of their way of presenting themselves.
Nobody here was actually hostile - people read, perceive and react. There is action and reaction - it is what it is. Community consists of individuals. It is normal that people perceive things differently (e.g. some can read between the lines, some can't) and react differently. The ability to accept each other's distinctness is what makes a community, indeed.



What an insightful philosophical observation, Honorable Kawai_CS. I stand indebted to you for pointing out what a fool I made of myself by posting my introduction here.  Thank you also for standing up and defending certain other members here who welcomed a despicable troll such as myself so warmly.

"The ability to accept each other's distinctness is what makes a community, indeed."

So true! ;)

You are a truly great individual. I look forward to getting to know you.
rach prlds c#m, g#m, cm, moment mx 3
scriabin prds, etds (a bunch)
chopin prds, etds (several)
liszt un sospiro
schumann (some)
bach concerto Fm
schubert impromptus (3)
hot cross buns backwards

Offline kawai_cs

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #27 on: January 06, 2016, 11:39:58 PM
Wow. Bravo. We are getting to know you so much better with every post you write.
No need to be so sarcastic, dear.
I would appreciate if you would not put words in my mouth that I did not say.
Good luck with your playing of 2 concerto or whatever.
Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

Offline 2pac_lives

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #28 on: January 06, 2016, 11:43:54 PM
Wow. Bravo. We are getting to know you so much better with every post you write.
No need to be so sarcastic, dear.
I would appreciate if you would not put words in my mouth that I did not say.
Good luck with your playing of 2 concerto or whatever.


Thanks! :)
rach prlds c#m, g#m, cm, moment mx 3
scriabin prds, etds (a bunch)
chopin prds, etds (several)
liszt un sospiro
schumann (some)
bach concerto Fm
schubert impromptus (3)
hot cross buns backwards

Offline kawai_cs

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Chopin, 10-8 | Chopin, 25-12 | Haydn, HOB XVI:20

Offline 2pac_lives

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #30 on: January 07, 2016, 04:36:16 AM
Whatever!  :P

You said you were going to quit replying to this thread, yet you seem positively addicted.  Just leave now. I've only been here for 2 days and I'm already sick of your bloated self-regard and your pathetic attempt of trying to reframe your (and others') hostility to my sincere initial post post as MY inability to "accept your distinctness" (it wasn't distinctness—it was hostility). Instead of giving me an apology and setting the atmosphere better here, you come up with this load of hypocritical horse-sh*t?  Look at your first reply to me... for all your philosophical parading, you're hardly an example of acceptance of my... "distinctness".

Frankly, it's manipulative of you and it's pitiful. Yes, I'm a newbie here, but I don't give a sh*t how long you've been here or how much seniority you have because of your 252 posts here. I've been a member of a variety of internet forums and I've never experienced something like this before.

You've been utterly unhelpful here. Stop trying to edge in the last word, and just go.
rach prlds c#m, g#m, cm, moment mx 3
scriabin prds, etds (a bunch)
chopin prds, etds (several)
liszt un sospiro
schumann (some)
bach concerto Fm
schubert impromptus (3)
hot cross buns backwards

Offline mjames

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #31 on: January 07, 2016, 07:15:46 AM

Also, he never said he was a professional piano player or a concertist.

Neither did I. I said he was a concerto-level pianist. There's a difference.

rach prlds c#m, g#m, cm, moment musicaux 3
scriabin prlds, etds
chopin prlds, etds
liszt un sospiro
schumann concerto Am
bach concerto Fm
schubert impromptus
beethoven mnlght

..Prepping all of that at once..INCLUDING a Rach concerto? Concert-level pianist no doubt.
once op helps me learn what musicality is, i hope i can get help with using musicality to master the schubert etudes.  my playing power level right now is only at level russet potato. I hope to reach over 9000 someday.

Musicality? Um, maybe he meant Rach's musical language, rather than his "musicality." Because I have a hard time understanding what Rach's musicality (I guess, his ability to understand and command music?)does to help your playing; it was Rach's ability, not yours! So the only thing that actually benefits you (the player) is the musical language. At first I thought that he might possibly not be fluent in English, but it appears to me that he's quite an articulate person.

How can a person at his level have such a generic (at best) rep alongside having a limited vocabulary of musical terminology...? lol

Offline abbyes

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #32 on: January 07, 2016, 02:05:02 PM
Really, with all of your scathing and hostile replies you haven't done more than add fuel to the fire to this already unpleasant conversation. Just let it go...

Offline mjames

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #33 on: January 07, 2016, 02:13:47 PM
Really, with all of your scathing and hostile replies you haven't done more than add fuel to the fire to this already unpleasant conversation. Just let it go...

shut up anna, you cant tell me what to do

Offline abbyes

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #34 on: January 07, 2016, 02:29:12 PM
Lol...I knew it, I really knew it since the moment I wrote it. I though of changing it to " Just let it be " ( But then remembered about the Beatles' song ). It must have been destined to happen haha.

At least the hostile replies ceased  :)

 :-*

Offline cranston53

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #35 on: January 13, 2016, 02:28:29 PM
This thread is a great deal of fun.

Start with number one - firework of a cadenza in the first movement and a beautiful second.

Then move onto the fourth.

But make sure you musicality is at a peak; otherwise the musicalasioussness in the performance will suffer.

Offline perprocrastinate

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #36 on: January 15, 2016, 11:36:03 PM
Why even bother choosing one to start with? Learn all of them at the same time! For extra fun, throw in the Paganini variations!

Offline 2pac_lives

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #37 on: January 14, 2022, 11:56:45 AM
------
rach prlds c#m, g#m, cm, moment mx 3
scriabin prds, etds (a bunch)
chopin prds, etds (several)
liszt un sospiro
schumann (some)
bach concerto Fm
schubert impromptus (3)
hot cross buns backwards

Offline lelle

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #38 on: January 14, 2022, 04:11:07 PM
------

This is the strangest bump I have seen so far

Offline bachmoninoff

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Bach - WTC no.16 Bk 1
Beethoven - Piano Sonata op. 7
Chopin - op. 10 no. 7 & op. 25 no. 6
Liszt - Mephisto Waltz no. 1
Prokofiev - Piano Sonata no. 2
Rachmaninov - Piano Concerto no. 2

Offline masterraro

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #40 on: February 06, 2022, 04:32:14 PM
Why am I responding to a 6 year old thread??  ::)  Maybe op can give us an update!

The initial question itself doesn't have to be regarded as ridiculous, although I think when embarking on such a journey as a Rach concerto, one should probably have very strong and personal feelings... The op, now years ago, said he or she has studied nearly all of the Rach preludes/etudes... if this is true, then op could approach any of the five concerti (counting Paganini as #5) because the complete Rach preludes and etudes easily cover the range of challenges you'll discover in the concerti.

Personally, I've played 2 and 3, and only 2 with orchestra.  They are not easy pieces!  Rach 3 deserves its reputation.  That said, nothing is unplayable.  It's all very pianistic (It's Rachmaninov  8) after all), it's just very very demanding.  One should expect a solid year of learning all the notes/letting them sink in.  By the time you are ready to perform a Rach concerto, you'd better feel every single note in your bones, like you were born that way.

Now, the pecking order... I'd say Rach 3 is the most difficult in practically every regard, musically and technically.  It really is.  If I HAD to order them in terms of technical difficulty (a stupid concept to begin with) I would probably go:

1. Rach 3
2. Rach 4
3. Rach 2
4. Rach/Pag
5. Rach 1

I'm not totally sure about my placement of Rach 4... And don't let this make it seem like Rach 1 is easy!  Keep in mind they're basically all among the most difficult works written for piano, so... anyone approaching these pieces at all should already know fully what they're doing.

Op, did you ever end up studying one of the concerti?  I recommend to anyone and everyone, no matter the level, to familiarize yourself with these concerti through listening to the great recordings and absorbing/thinking about the music.  Taking it upon yourself to study the notes from the ground up is probably not the right approach for someone who isn't already very familiar with the music. 

I would even go as far as to say that anyone out there who plays a concerto like Rach 3 very well was already extremely familiar with the music before they touched a single note. By the time a pianist chooses to approach a piece like Rach 3, or the Liszt B minor, or the Hammerklavier, or the Goldberg... it's probably been rattling around in the head for years already.

Just some stuff to think about. In the end, I encourage doing whatever you are truly inspired to do, even if it breaks some of the "rules."  Go with your gut!  ;D

Offline bachmoninoff

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Re: Which Rach concerto should I start with first?
Reply #41 on: February 19, 2022, 06:31:55 AM
Why am I responding to a 6 year old thread??  ::)  Maybe op can give us an update!

The initial question itself doesn't have to be regarded as ridiculous, although I think when embarking on such a journey as a Rach concerto, one should probably have very strong and personal feelings... The op, now years ago, said he or she has studied nearly all of the Rach preludes/etudes... if this is true, then op could approach any of the five concerti (counting Paganini as #5) because the complete Rach preludes and etudes easily cover the range of challenges you'll discover in the concerti.

Personally, I've played 2 and 3, and only 2 with orchestra.  They are not easy pieces!  Rach 3 deserves its reputation.  That said, nothing is unplayable.  It's all very pianistic (It's Rachmaninov  8) after all), it's just very very demanding.  One should expect a solid year of learning all the notes/letting them sink in.  By the time you are ready to perform a Rach concerto, you'd better feel every single note in your bones, like you were born that way.

Now, the pecking order... I'd say Rach 3 is the most difficult in practically every regard, musically and technically.  It really is.  If I HAD to order them in terms of technical difficulty (a stupid concept to begin with) I would probably go:

1. Rach 3
2. Rach 4
3. Rach 2
4. Rach/Pag
5. Rach 1

I'm not totally sure about my placement of Rach 4... And don't let this make it seem like Rach 1 is easy!  Keep in mind they're basically all among the most difficult works written for piano, so... anyone approaching these pieces at all should already know fully what they're doing.

Op, did you ever end up studying one of the concerti?  I recommend to anyone and everyone, no matter the level, to familiarize yourself with these concerti through listening to the great recordings and absorbing/thinking about the music.  Taking it upon yourself to study the notes from the ground up is probably not the right approach for someone who isn't already very familiar with the music. 

I would even go as far as to say that anyone out there who plays a concerto like Rach 3 very well was already extremely familiar with the music before they touched a single note. By the time a pianist chooses to approach a piece like Rach 3, or the Liszt B minor, or the Hammerklavier, or the Goldberg... it's probably been rattling around in the head for years already.

Just some stuff to think about. In the end, I encourage doing whatever you are truly inspired to do, even if it breaks some of the "rules."  Go with your gut!  ;D

Masterraro, never have I ever heard as much sense and genuineness in a concerto ranking. I applaud you for being the first. That being said, I completely agree with you that the idea of this particular concerto ranking is kinda dumb because if you are at the caliber of playing Rach 1, you can probably pull off Pag or Rach 2. That being said I’d those three are purely subjective and individually specific.

Personally, I find Rach 4 not a good concerto and avoid it altogether. Unless you have some random desire for it, go for it. It’s just pretty dang hard and doesn’t seem worth it to me.

Then Rach 3, definitely the hardest. Would say it’s on par with Brahms 2, Prokofiev 2, Bartok 2 and like some of the hardest popular concerti

Another thing that may help is to find other concerti that match the levels of these pieces. What I mean is that there are plenty other great concerti out there that fit around the same level and I highly suggest checking them out.

If I remember correctly, there is an old thread titled “ANOTHER concerto ranking” and has a really good collection of pieces you can look at.

Hope this helps!   ;)

Bachmaninoff
Bach - WTC no.16 Bk 1
Beethoven - Piano Sonata op. 7
Chopin - op. 10 no. 7 & op. 25 no. 6
Liszt - Mephisto Waltz no. 1
Prokofiev - Piano Sonata no. 2
Rachmaninov - Piano Concerto no. 2
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