How do you define the 'Human Spirit'?

[theholygideons]

Is it something that you possess as part of your self-concept, or does it refer to some sort of transcendence beyond the basic self? Can someone give me an exact definition, thanks. Why is Beethoven's ninth the epitome of the human spirit?

[rubinsteinmad]

Your spirit is the human spirit.
My spirit is dog spit.

[theholygideons]

or is the human spirit merely a symptom of a higher purpose in life?

[themeandvariation]

"Ode to Joy"

"Joy, beautiful spark of the gods,
Daughter of Elysium,
We enter fire imbibed,
Heavenly, thy sanctuary.
 
Thy magic reunites those
Whom stern custom has parted;
All men will become brothers
Under thy gentle wing.
 
May he who has had the fortune
To gain a true friend
And he who has won a noble wife
Join in our jubilation!
 
Yes, even if he calls but one soul
His own in all the world.
But he who has failed in this
Must steal away alone and in tears.
 
All the world's creatures
Draw joy from nature's breast;
Both the good and the evil
Follow her rose-strewn path.
 
She gave us kisses and wine
And a friend loyal unto death;
She gave lust for life to the lowliest,
And the Cherub stands before God.
 
Joyously, as his suns speed
Through Heaven's glorious order,
Hasten, Brothers, on your way,
Exulting as a knight in victory.
 
CHORUS
 
Joy, beautiful spark of the gods,
Daughter of Elysium,
We enter fire imbibed,
Heavenly, thy sanctuary.
 
Be embraced, Millions!
This kiss for all the world!
Brothers!, above the starry canopy
A loving father must dwell.
 
Can you sense the Creator, world?
Seek him above the starry canopy.
Above the stars He must dwell.
 
Be embraced, Millions!
This kiss for all the world!
Brothers!, above the starry canopy
A loving father must dwell.
 
Can you sense the Creator, world?
Seek him above the starry canopy.
Above the stars He must dwell.
 
Joy, beautiful spark of the gods,
Daughter of Elysium,
We enter fire imbibed,
Heavenly, thy sanctuary.
 
Be embraced, Millions!
This kiss for all the world!
Brothers!, above the starry canopy
A loving father must dwell.
 
Can you sense the Creator, world?
Seek him above the starry canopy.
Above the stars He must dwell.
 
Be embraced, Millions!
This kiss for all the world!
Brothers!, above the starry canopy
A loving father must dwell.
 
Can you sense the Creator, world?
Seek him above the starry canopy.
Above the stars He must dwell.
 
Joy, daughter of Elysium
Thy magic reunites those
Whom stern custom has parted;
All men will become brothers
Under thy gentle wing.
 
Be embraced, Millions!
This kiss for all the world!
Brothers!, above the starry canopy
A loving father must dwell.
 
Joy, beautiful spark of Gods!,
Daughter of Elysium,
Joy, beautiful spark of Gods!"
 

[shostglass]

Keep it in church man.

"Ode to Joy"

"Joy, beautiful spark of the gods,
Daughter of Elysium,
We enter fire imbibed,
Heavenly, thy sanctuary.
 
Thy magic reunites those
Whom stern custom has parted;
All men will become brothers
Under thy gentle wing.
 
May he who has had the fortune
To gain a true friend
And he who has won a noble wife
Join in our jubilation!
 
Yes, even if he calls but one soul
His own in all the world.
But he who has failed in this
Must steal away alone and in tears.
 
All the world's creatures
Draw joy from nature's breast;
Both the good and the evil
Follow her rose-strewn path.
 
She gave us kisses and wine
And a friend loyal unto death;
She gave lust for life to the lowliest,
And the Cherub stands before God.
 
Joyously, as his suns speed
Through Heaven's glorious order,
Hasten, Brothers, on your way,
Exulting as a knight in victory.
 
CHORUS
 
Joy, beautiful spark of the gods,
Daughter of Elysium,
We enter fire imbibed,
Heavenly, thy sanctuary.
 
Be embraced, Millions!
This kiss for all the world!
Brothers!, above the starry canopy
A loving father must dwell.
 
Can you sense the Creator, world?
Seek him above the starry canopy.
Above the stars He must dwell.
 
Be embraced, Millions!
This kiss for all the world!
Brothers!, above the starry canopy
A loving father must dwell.
 
Can you sense the Creator, world?
Seek him above the starry canopy.
Above the stars He must dwell.
 
Joy, beautiful spark of the gods,
Daughter of Elysium,
We enter fire imbibed,
Heavenly, thy sanctuary.
 
Be embraced, Millions!
This kiss for all the world!
Brothers!, above the starry canopy
A loving father must dwell.
 
Can you sense the Creator, world?
Seek him above the starry canopy.
Above the stars He must dwell.
 
Be embraced, Millions!
This kiss for all the world!
Brothers!, above the starry canopy
A loving father must dwell.
 
Can you sense the Creator, world?
Seek him above the starry canopy.
Above the stars He must dwell.
 
Joy, daughter of Elysium
Thy magic reunites those
Whom stern custom has parted;
All men will become brothers
Under thy gentle wing.
 
Be embraced, Millions!
This kiss for all the world!
Brothers!, above the starry canopy
A loving father must dwell.
 
Joy, beautiful spark of Gods!,
Daughter of Elysium,
Joy, beautiful spark of Gods!"
 

[themeandvariation]

(ps.
please feel free to replace/update 'He' with 'Her' or 'The Creator', and 'brothers' with 'sisters' if that is your inclination).

[themeandvariation]

Shost - It was asked - the meaning of spirit - as it relates to the ninth… I thought the words (IN the 9th) would be appropriate to post… Don't you?

[themeandvariation]

ps… Shost.. You not into 'brotherhood' ? , friend 

[theholygideons]

Shost - It was asked - the meaning of spirit - as it relates to the ninth… I thought the words (IN the 9th) would be appropriate to post… Don't you?

I still don't get it. Is human spirit meant to signify some great utopia?

[themeandvariation]

THG… i believe that the words are saying, in one respect, that central to this 'utopia' idea - is (the glorious spiritual revelation ) that we actually see ourselves As brothers and sisters, and act in the light of that 'spirit'…
For me, music can speak louder than words on this… Is it to be heard in the 9th?  That, I suppose, is a subjective question..

[shostglass]

I was just joking  , although I don't care for zealots , Once I saw a movie with my friends and before we entered we decided to check some store around the neighboring mall and a women came up to us with papers preaching about God. But one of my friends was Muslim and when when confronted with this the women went on a rant about how he was going to hell.

[chopinlover01]

I would define 'human spirit' as something universal which we all share; that which separates us from animals in terms of cognitive function (though not in terms of ancestry); which I would define as us having empathy for each other, having social constructs such as we do.
Go read the Epic of Gilgamesh; fantastic read and great insight as to what makes us "humans".

[theholygideons]

I would define 'human spirit' as something universal which we all share; that which separates us from animals in terms of cognitive function (though not in terms of ancestry); which I would define as us having empathy for each other, having social constructs such as we do.
Go read the Epic of Gilgamesh; fantastic read and great insight as to what makes us "humans".

I feel that that definition would only encompass the 'human' part of the phrase. For some reason 'human spirit' has this almost overreaching connotation to it.

[rubinsteinmad]

the women went on a rant about how he was going to hell.

Oh, that's terrible! Those women do not know God; they don't know 'heaven' and 'hell'.
I think some people who claim to be "Christians" are simply hypocrites; they aren't true Christians.

[chopinlover01]

Oh, that's terrible! Those women do not know God; they don't know 'heaven' and 'hell'.
I think some people who claim to be "Christians" are simply hypocrites; they aren't true Christians.

By what standard do you say that? By biblical standards, just about anything is subject to eternal punishment.
One of the interesting things of Christianity is that, from the same book, emerged MLK and the KKK.

[rubinsteinmad]

By what standard do you say that? By biblical standards, just about anything is subject to eternal punishment.
One of the interesting things of Christianity is that, from the same book, emerged MLK and the KKK.

A bunch of hating hyprocrites

[swagmaster420x]

50 shades of Grey is actually a Christian text
(See name of main character's love interest)

[chopinlover01]

A bunch of hating hyprocrites

What is a "hyprocrite"?

[rubinsteinmad]

What is a "hyprocrite"?

People who call themselves "Christians" but in reality contradict the most fundamental principles.

[chopinlover01]

People who call themselves "Christians" but in reality contradict the most fundamental principles.

Which are? Again, the KKK can cite Bible verses just as easily as you, as well as the fact that Christ never really got rid of the Jewish law, and in fact revered it.

[rubinsteinmad]

the KKK can cite Bible verses just as easily as you

Of course, but they are hypocrites.

"I distrust those who know so well what God wants them to do, because so often it coincides with their own desires."
   -Susan Bronwell Anthony

[cuberdrift]

Man...I'd debate over this on the Internet before...read articles about it...

It helps to read on theories about stuff like these, but you know, in the end, I think it's all about what life experiences tell us. Therefore it becomes a personal thing. It seems difficult to base what the "spirit" is solely on what so many other sources claim it is.

[chopinlover01]

Of course, but they are hypocrites.

"I distrust those who know so well what God wants them to do, because so often it coincides with their own desires."
   -Susan Bronwell Anthony

Again, hypocrites by what standard? You have yet to provide a standard for what a "good" Christian is and what a "bad" Christian is (and those terms are subjective in and of themselves, anyhow).

[rubinsteinmad]

Again, hypocrites by what standard? You have yet to provide a standard for what a "good" Christian is and what a "bad" Christian is (and those terms are subjective in and of themselves, anyhow).

U should be able to tell who's a good Christian and who's a bad one. It's subjective, but it's obvious.