Is learning pieces, practicing?

[darkpisces]

Would learning Chopin Etudes for example, be practicing? If so, would it be good practice? Because they tackle techniques which would require an absortion and learning of those techniques in order to play them. So surely instead of Hanon finger exercises this would be much more effective but obviously very difficult.

Another question is, what exactly is practicing? I've practiced and I've gotten better but my insecurity has me doubting my practice and has me asking this question over and over. For example, if I were practicing a right hand 4-note descending arpeggio, slowly with (perfect) timing between each note, efficient (correct) finger movement. Practicing with an accented first note, then practicing with an accented second note, and so on. And then variations in rhythm, like short, short, long. Long, short, short, ect. And then bunching the notes up in a chord and practicing blocked.

That's practicing and I would be improving? And how long should I spend doing this? More practice advice is very welcome.

[xdjuicebox]

Do you want to get good at playing notes or playing music?

If you want to get good at playing notes, play Hanon. If you want to get good at playing music, play Chopin, albeit musically. Now, there are some people that can translate their Hanon skills into musical playing, but more often than not to do that you'd have to play Hanon musically, and if you were going to do that, why not just play actual music?

That being said, Hanon does have its merits under proper instruction.

While the method you describe does help (and to practice those I recommend Beethoven Sonatas since he loved his arpeggios for whatever reasons that are far beyond me), it's almost useless if you don't know WHY you're practicing like that.

Think about what you're trying to achieve. Perfectly even arpeggios. (The C#diminished 7th one comes to mind on Appassionata Mov. 3) Instead of focusing on just "doing it," think about what your body needs to achieve to hit perfectly even arpeggios. You have to get all the hammers to strike at the exact same velocity, evenly apart in terms of time. Which means that for each finger, you need to attack the key at the same velocity, and at the same time intervals. Are you getting "stuck" on any of the keys? Sliding past any of them too fast? Putting excessive force or excessive weight in any of the fingers? Are your fingers not supported by the rest of your body? Are your fingers carrying your weight? Fix those problems, and "even" arpeggios might be easier than you think. ^^

Also, another thing to note is that when you are traveling up on grand pianos, you'll have to make some adjustments to get an "even" sound because the lower registers are louder/last longer than the higher ones.

[louispodesta]

Do you want to get good at playing notes or playing music?

If you want to get good at playing notes, play Hanon. If you want to get good at playing music, play Chopin, albeit musically. Now, there are some people that can translate their Hanon skills into musical playing, but more often than not to do that you'd have to play Hanon musically, and if you were going to do that, why not just play actual music?

That being said, Hanon does have its merits under proper instruction.

While the method you describe does help (and to practice those I recommend Beethoven Sonatas since he loved his arpeggios for whatever reasons that are far beyond me), it's almost useless if you don't know WHY you're practicing like that.

Think about what you're trying to achieve. Perfectly even arpeggios. (The C#diminished 7th one comes to mind on Appassionata Mov. 3) Instead of focusing on just "doing it," think about what your body needs to achieve to hit perfectly even arpeggios. You have to get all the hammers to strike at the exact same velocity, evenly apart in terms of time. Which means that for each finger, you need to attack the key at the same velocity, and at the same time intervals. Are you getting "stuck" on any of the keys? Sliding past any of them too fast? Putting excessive force or excessive weight in any of the fingers? Are your fingers not supported by the rest of your body? Are your fingers carrying your weight? Fix those problems, and "even" arpeggios might be easier than you think. ^^

Also, another thing to note is that when you are traveling up on grand pianos, you'll have to make some adjustments to get an "even" sound because the lower registers are louder/last longer than the higher ones.

In general, excellent advice, but, (with the exception of the last paragraph), it does not take into consideration the condition of the actual piano that the OP practices on.  This is not just a big deal, in terms of technique and the practicing associated with it, IT IS THE DEAL!!

Therefore, it would be great if the OP could give us the specifics of his piano and how it has been tuned, voiced, and regulated (including its brand name and age).

[darkpisces]

I play a Yamaha Arius YDP-V240 which has graded keys, obviously hammered keys ect. I even use hard sensitivity during practice a lot. The piano is not really the problem as it is very good and my age I am uncomfortable mentioning too. I can play Chopin's Etude Op.25, No. 12 well and I am working on another Chopin Etude and I can play a few other advanced pieces too. I also don't really see how Hanon compared to Chopin Etudes make you good at playing notes or good at playing music. It's all music and playing Chopin Etudes is being good at playing notes, obviously. It's some of the most demanding repertoire out there and probably the most difficult musically. Since scales and fingerings and techniques are built into these Etudes, wouldn't I be aquiring the same skills but through beautiful pieces that require virtuosity to pull off well, which in turn would be practicing and getting better and better? Being able to play the Chopin Etudes well requires virtuosity in pretty much all techniques of piano playing. 

And with practice, I just don't see how even with correct fingering, movement, practicing accented, slowly, in different rhythms ect. That I would be sitting there playing this one phrase literally 1000 times within an hour session. Surely this isn't correct, that's my point and that's what I'm trying to figure out. When you are doing everything correctly, practicing something like a 4-note descending right hand arpeggio for example which going through the arpeggio once at slow tempo ends within 10 seconds of time, you would have to do this over and over again 100-1000 times? and then again next time? Seems pretty preposterous

[lustercrush]

practise
/'praktɪs/
verb
1. perform (an activity) or exercise (a skill) repeatedly or regularly in order to acquire, improve or maintain proficiency in it.

Don't practice until you get it right. Practice until you can't get it wrong.

[tenk]

Originally from this https://jamesclear.com/deliberate-practice but I extracted one of the more apropos sections:

In 2012, Kobe Bryant was selected as a member of Team USA. During this time, one of the athletic trainer’s for Team USA, a man named Robert, was working with Kobe to prepare for the Olympics. In the story below, which was previously published on Reddit, Robert describes his first experience with Kobe and reveals one of the reasons the superstar has become so successful.

    From Robert, trainer for Team USA:

    I was invited to Las Vegas to help Team USA with their conditioning before they headed off to London. I’ve had the opportunity to work with Carmelo Anthony and Dwyane Wade in the past, but this would be my first interaction with Kobe.

    The night before the first scrimmage, I had just watched “Casablanca” for the first time and it was about 3:30 AM.

    A few minutes later, I was in bed, slowly fading away, when I heard my cell ring. It was Kobe. I nervously picked up.

    “Hey, uhh, Rob, I hope I’m not disturbing anything right?”

    “Uhh, no. What’s up Kob?”

    “Just wondering if you could help me out with some conditioning work, that’s all.”

    I checked my clock. 4:15 AM.

    “Yeah sure, I’ll see you in the facility in a bit.”

    It took me about twenty minutes to get my gear and get out of the hotel. When I arrived and opened the room to the main practice floor, I saw Kobe. Alone. He was drenched in sweat as if he had just taken a swim. It wasn’t even 5:00 AM.

    We did some conditioning work for the next hour and fifteen minutes. Then, we entered the weight room, where he would do a multitude of strength training exercises for the next 45 minutes. After that, we parted ways. He went back to the practice floor to shoot. I went back to the hotel and crashed. Wow.

    I was expected to be at the floor again at about 11:00 AM.

    I woke up feeling sleepy, drowsy, and pretty much every side effect of sleep deprivation. (Thanks, Kobe.) I had a bagel and headed to the practice facility.

    This next part I remember very vividly. All of the Team USA players were there. LeBron was talking to Carmelo and Coach Krzyzewski was trying to explain something to Kevin Durant. On the right side of the practice facility Kobe was by himself shooting jumpers.

    I went over to him, patted him on the back and said, “Good work this morning.”

    “Huh?”

    “Like, the conditioning. Good work.”

    “Oh. Yeah, thanks Rob. I really appreciate it.”

    “So when did you finish?”

    “Finish what?”

    “Getting your shots up. What time did you leave the facility?”

    “Oh, just now. I wanted 800 makes. So yeah, just now.”

For those of you keeping track at home, Kobe Bryant started his conditioning work around 4:30am, continued to run and sprint until 6am, lifted weights from 6am to 7am, and finally proceeded to make 800 jump shots between 7am and 11am.

So darkpisces, that you may need to repeat something slowly and deliberately hundreds if not thousands of times does not seem so far fetched. Just think of how many days a player like Kobe would go out and say, "I'm not finished practice until I have made 500 free throws".

But that's really the purpose of the linked article -- mindful practice with specific goals in mind is a far better use of your time. Those goals can be anything:
- I will play these two measures at half tempo perfectly 20 times
- I will memorize the first 8 bars of this piece
- I will play the D major scale using X rhythm and Y tempo 10 times

Goals should be difficult, but within reach. If you easily complete everything in 20 minutes, expand your selection. If it takes you more than an hour, consider scaling back a bit. 30-45 minute chunks of focused, goal-oriented practice. Give it a try.

[louispodesta]

Would learning Chopin Etudes for example, be practicing? If so, would it be good practice? Because they tackle techniques which would require an absortion and learning of those techniques in order to play them. So surely instead of Hanon finger exercises this would be much more effective but obviously very difficult.

Another question is, what exactly is practicing? I've practiced and I've gotten better but my insecurity has me doubting my practice and has me asking this question over and over. For example, if I were practicing a right hand 4-note descending arpeggio, slowly with (perfect) timing between each note, efficient (correct) finger movement. Practicing with an accented first note, then practicing with an accented second note, and so on. And then variations in rhythm, like short, short, long. Long, short, short, ect. And then bunching the notes up in a chord and practicing blocked.

That's practicing and I would be improving? And how long should I spend doing this? More practice advice is very welcome.

Parenthetically, I should have more sense to make the following comment, but in that I am an Aspy, that would be specious. 

Accordingly, first, per the OP's interrogatory, Dr. Thomas Mark has a doctorate from Columbia University where he taught for many years.  As such, he is considered an expert on the writings of Spinoza.

His most recent work, very unlike his superb handbook "What Every Pianist Needs To Know About The Body," (which is a very easy read) is the book "Motion, Emotion, and Love."

This a highly philosophical analysis and commentary on what it means to seriously dedicate oneself to the study of the piano and all of its machinations and personal ramifications (including an extensive discussion on "practicing"). https://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Carson-Mark/e/B001KD47OG

If the OP, and others so desire (wherein this subject is beaten to death), then this an excellent source which may provide answers to any and most all of your questions.