Why is Chamber Music so unsexy?!

[opus10no2]

Apologies for the title but really it seems among most young pianists we see discussions about solo works, big concerti, but far less about chamber music.

I started a thread in the performance section questioning just how much of our motivation to practice is based on our love of music for ourselves and how much is based upon impressing others....I do wonder if this is part of the reason chamber music is neglected - the pianist doesn't have the limelight! The wealth of music out there is extraordinary.

I also understand practical considerations such as the difficulty of finding performance partners etc. but I'd like to think the reputation pianists have for being egocentric lone-wolves is largely unfounded. 


PS - people feel free to post some chamber music that you think may excite and intrigue those relatively new to it. 

[ahinton]

Apologies for the title but really it seems among most young pianists we see discussions about solo works, big concerti, but far less about chamber music.

I started a thread in the performance section questioning just how much of our motivation to practice is based on our love of music for ourselves and how much is based upon impressing others....I do wonder if this is part of the reason chamber music is neglected - the pianist doesn't have the limelight! The wealth of music out there is extraordinary.

I also understand practical considerations such as the difficulty of finding performance partners etc. but I'd like to think the reputation pianists have for being egocentric lone-wolves is largely unfounded. 


PS - people feel free to post some chamber music that you think may excite and intrigue those relatively new to it. 

That reputation is indeed unfounded in the case of most pianists - and these days one's more likely to find Argerich, for example, performing chamber music than anything else!

That said, there's no shortage of chamber music for piano and strings that has really quite demanding piano parts - think of the Brahms C minor piano quartet, Mendelssohn D minor piano trio, Medtner's second and third violin sonatas, Beethoven's Kreutzer sonata, Ravel's piano trio, Schmitt's piano quintet; the list isn't endless (no list, by definition, can be such) but it's far from short!

You're right, though, that there seems to be scant discussion of it here, especially given the vast repertoire of chamber music involving piano!

Best,

Alistair

[opus10no2]

Yes I do notice that pianists tend to do more chamber music as they age, perhaps a change of mindset or also perhaps a feeling of freedom to do so without pressure.

You're right about the piano parts of works - Note that something as simple as the wording in the title of pieces may deter some....

Rachmaninoff's 'Cello Sonata' doesn't sound as inviting on a superficial level as 'Sonata for Piano and Cello' would.

His and Chopin's Cello Sonatas are particularly piano-centric, very demanding works too.

How many pianists are willing to put in the work equal to that of one of their other Piano Sonatas to not even be listed in the title of the piece in some programmes...

Like you say, the repertoire is vast and quality of chamber music - in terms of percentage - is higher than that of solo piano music. I say this as an opinion of course but I feel composers reserve their creative resources and best material for works of a larger scale.

One thing to note is exactly what I've just mentioned - chamber music tends to be longer than solo pieces. Piano pieces can often be miniatures which may be one reason why people here like discussing pieces that don't take an age to master so much, and don't sound so 'incomplete' in a solitary practice scenario.

[michael_c]

I started a thread in the performance section questioning just how much of our motivation to practice is based on our love of music for ourselves and how much is based upon impressing others....I do wonder if this is part of the reason chamber music is neglected - the pianist doesn't have the limelight!

The funny thing is that in much of the chamber music repertoire the pianist does have the limelight: often piano quartets or quintets are criticised for being too much like miniature piano concertos (see for instance the works by Fauré and Schumann in these combinations). And certainly the Rachmaninoff "cello sonata" could be renamed "concerto for piano with cello accompaniment".

Many great pianists have devoted a lot of their time to chamber music. I can well understand them: in my varied life as a musician, chamber music has given me some of the greatest joys.

It it sexy? Maybe it depends on who you are playing with 

Anyway, here's some sexy chamber music:

[ahinton]

The funny thing is that in much of the chamber music repertoire the pianist does have the limelight: often piano quartets or quintets are criticised for being too much like miniature piano concertos (see for instance the works by Fauré and Schumann in these combinations). And certainly the Rachmaninoff "cello sonata" could be renamed "concerto for piano with cello accompaniment".

Whilst that is indeed partly true (as in fact I have already suggested), I think that your last sentence is unfair to the Rachmaninoff cello sonata (or the Chopin, for that matter) in that it's up to the cellist to ensure that this is not the impression conveyed.

Another particularly acute case of this (besides those that I mentioned earlier) is the Sonata for violin and piano by Joseph Marx, a most delightful 50+ minute extravaganza whose very demands on the pianist might be one reason why it's so rarely performed yet, likewise, it is still very much a duo sonata, as are the Rachmaninoff and Chopin cello sonatas, as long as they're played as such!

Much the same may be said of the songs for voice and piano my Rachmaninoff, Medtner and Marx, some of which might even be regarded as miniature double concertos for the two performers.

Best,

Alistair

[themeandvariation]

there is a great joy/'sexiness'  to play with others in chamber music…The intense synchronicity of a few becoming of one mind… (as distinct, experientially,  from orchestral or solo playing.
That plus the greatness of the composition, of course. 
Here is a Fantasic example, the Mendelssohn trio, 'Live', w/ Rubinstein, Heifetz, and Piatigorsky:

[piulento]

Most pianists would rather play solo repertoire / a concerto because it naturally places the pianist in the spotlight. Pieces that give the piano more attention will naturally appeal more to pianists.
But trust me, If I could find some partners and had the proper skills to give this piece a decent performance, I'd totally go for it:

[gvans]

IMO, playing chamber music is incredible. Not sure I'd use the word "sexy," although plenty of musicians get into that sort of trouble after rehearsal...I personally try to stick to business.

Re finding players: check the ACMP, Association of Chamber Music Players, to get lined up with strings, etc. in your geographic area. It always helps for a pianist to work on repertoire ahead of time, sight-reading the romantic and impressionist works can be tough. I've been studying the Faure and Schumann quintets right now, wonderful works. The string players can sight-read them, but the piano parts require some work. When you do get all the people lined up, though, when you've done your homework and away you go, chamber music is wonderful.

Getting balance right at performances can be tricky; sometime it's best to use the short stick or no stick; also, the size of the audience makes a difference, and the balance between piano and strings can vary with distance from the stage.

Also, don't forget piano four-hands as a form of chamber music. There is much great literature to explore there, too.

Cheers! 
Glenn

[medtnaculus]

I can not recommend Huré's Quintet enough.

Give it a listen.

30 minutes of incredible music. Probably my favourite piece of chamber music.

[chopinlover01]

Chamber music is great stuff, a real joy to play.
Why is it so unsexy? Probably the lack of big tittied women everywhere, of course

[mjames]

I don't have much knowledge about chamber music so I don't talk about it. I'm still busy learning a bunch of solo stuff and besides, I don't really have the resources to perform it.

[opus10no2]

I don't have much knowledge about chamber music so I don't talk about it. I'm still busy learning a bunch of solo stuff and besides, I don't really have the resources to perform it.

Don't let that stop you listening though.  

The Tchaikovsky trio

This is an obvious and popular choice, but it would be my pick for greatest piece of chamber music ever written, beautiful themes and the way the opening theme comes back in a thunderously passionate way in the finale is one of the most heart-stopping moments in all music.

Listen to the start of the piece - the first couple minutes to absorb the theme.

And if you don't have time to listen to the full piece, at least after hearing the first couple minutes skip to 39 minutes and listen to the end....you will hear what I mean.

What a joy it must be to perform it.


Edit, I just discovered this score-video of the Jascha Heifetz, Arthur Rubinstein & Gregor Piatigorsky recording. Wow!

[ahinton]

The Tchaikovsky trio

I knew that I'd miss out something fundamental and here's as good an example as any BUT do listen to the uncut version and bear in mind that the final allegro is not a "third movement" but the final, very much extended, variation from the second movement. A spectacular work!

Best,

Alistair

[c_minor]

If I had the skill and a partner, I would love to play some chamber music since I enjoy listening to it (piano and violin music in particular).

[pianiststrongbad]

My chamber music story is below.

When I first got into classical piano, I honestly didn't even know chamber music was a thing. I knew of solo music to a limited extent through piano lessons, and concerti and orchestral works from going to the symphony. I guess I was just never exposed to chamber music. It wasn't til I had to take a semester of chamber music in college that I became interested in chamber music. My first semester of chamber music, I got assigned the Schumann Quintet and I was immediately interested in the literature.

After graduating, I kept piano simply as a hobby and work in an entirely different field. For several years I tried to keep learning solo music. After a while I wanted something more - I wanted to work with other musicians. Concertos were not an option since I simply don't have access to performing as a soloist with an orchestra on a regular basis (I also don't have regular access to two grands, so the 2nd part on piano wasn't very appealing either). That led me to the next closest thing I could think of - chamber music.

I found a cellist and violinist in my area, and we've been working our way through the piano trio literature for about two years. Okay, so we haven't progressed that fast because it takes me a while to learn the monster piano parts, but so far we've done Beethoven 1, Mendelssohn 1, Brahms 1, Rachmaninoff 1, Tchaikovsky (1st mov only), and a few smaller pieces as well. We perform at a couple of house concerts a year and it is a lot of fun.

I think of a lot of the piano chamber music as piano concertos with a really small orchestra . I've had a lot of fun with chamber music these past few years, and highly recommend it.

[chrisbutch]

pianistsstrongbad - If you're restricted, as you describe, to the piano trio repertoire, then I'd warmly recommend those by Haydn. Not well known, but a revelation - particularly the piano writing, which is often more demanding than the solo sonatas.

[pianiststrongbad]

pianistsstrongbad - If you're restricted, as you describe, to the piano trio repertoire, then I'd warmly recommend those by Haydn. Not well known, but a revelation - particularly the piano writing, which is often more demanding than the solo sonatas.

I've played a few of the Haydn Trios. In my opinion, the cello parts are rather uninteresting since they are frequently just a copy of the left hand piano part.