Exquisite digital pianos {ex.)Clp-585} or decent acoustic piano {ex.)kawai k500}

[dddddmajor]

  Hello, before I begin, I'm a Korean who's moved to Auckland six months ago and I'm attending Gd.11 in Takapuna. So I apologize for my bad English. Let's cut to the chase, I've been playing piano for 6 years. My parents bought me P-115 a year ago, because I couldn't keep on living without a good piano and I'm kinda willing to have piano as my subspecialty(Construction engineering as major). However, I'm in a big trouble playing with the digital piano. To put it bluntly, I just hate it, I hate the overly bright sound, I hate the action, I hate the feels of the keys. I always think that digital pianos are never for playing classical pieces, y'know.

  A month ago, I succeeded to play Rachmaninoff rhapsody on a theme of Paganini var.18 and I figured out that I literally can't put any dynamics in it. I mean, graded hammer actions are too un-reactive to play in pianissimo nor piano. Although it was impossible to play anything properly with a DP, I played Torrent(op.10-4) and Black keys(op.10-5) last week, with a lot of mistouches, since touchweight of the keys are literally nonexistent(Just touch it, and it'll make sound). And from this Monday, I commenced the 7-hour practice routine to play Chopin's winter wind, and I thought, "Alright ya crappy piano, THAT'S IT". P-115 was meant to be stage piano and I'm playing something really, really challenging(But quite frankly, I succeeded to play until the second page of winter wind in tempo, but I failed to put diminuendo, which means that I know what keys to hit, but it's no good).Today, I nagged my parents and showed how potential(Can't say I'm good because I can't express anything with p-115)I am by showing off, I played the torrent in tempo 182 and a original version of bumblebee's flight. Also, I explained how I think p-115 is so crappy and I get so frustrated when it makes sound of the keys that I barely touched(It's not forgiving at all). So they understood and agreed to buy a piano that I can play properly. Ah, this is a just story about me and the digital piano, nothing to do with a topic, sorry. So, returning to my sheep, I decided to buy a Kawai Rx-3, which is 15000nzd(9700USD), because when I was in Korea, the piano academy I was learning used to have the exact same model, except the fact that it was newer and well-conditioned.

  But y' know, things doesn't go as I want them to go, my father got unemployed half a year ago(Yes, he failed to get a job in New Zealand, since his English is even worse than mine) and my family have been eating the savings up, which means, to say the least, there's a very faint possibility we would buy or afford a piano that costs 9700$.So, I couldn't help but to search for alternatives, although I think rx-3 is the best. I came up with two models at last, a high-end digital piano, clp-585 with ebony finish, which costs 4295usd(We're going to ship one from Korea, so shipping would take around 400$) and a brand new Kawai vertical k500, with a price tag of 13995NZD(Ofc It's a starting price, I would bargain and discount a little).

 Budget wise, I think clp-585 is the best because it has a really good sound engine and a Bosendorfer imperial's sound is just too good to refuse. But, on the other hand, K-500 is really good too, because of the Millenium III action and I love the mellow tone of Kawai(Although Bosendorfer's sound is even better). So, I don't think I can't just decide this by myself, my parents don't know anything(Sorry for them, too bad they didn't try to learn:-\) about pianos, they would just buy the Cheapest if I don't explain how much better the more expensive one is for all day long, no matter how it would make me head the wrong way.

So, ideally, I wish to have a piano with heavy touchweight(I'm kinda worried because piano shops in Auckland don't have clp-585 in stock, so I can't play it before I buy) and loud sound, because songs like winter wind needs a whole bunch of dynamics to be played properly with expression. Please, tell me which one is better, I think music is really, really serious matter, because I played piano for six years and it would be great to have music as subspecialty. In addition, my parents wouldn't buy me no more piano until I gain my own money to buy my own Steinway piano in far, far future. so please, I would have to use the piano which I decide now for more than 10 years, as long as I don't become millionaire all of a sudden:).

  Well, I hope my father's interview goes well and his English becomes better, then we might buy the Rx-3. But too bad he never studies, Rx-3 is not an option(out of budget). So, tell me honestly, Clp-585, a great digital piano or Kawai k500, a good upright?

[dddddmajor]

I forgot to tell you my budget;;! my budget is 13000NZD

[cydonia]

You will always be limited with digital pianos in terms of dynamics and response between touch and the real sound you should hear as on an acoustic. It's time for you to buy the best acoustic piano you can afford. I have both digital pianos and a baby grand. I'm almost always practicing on the acoustic. Also, check everything that's available around you before buying the Kawai. For a bit more money, you could have a decent baby grand (if you have the space). The touch and control will be even better than on an upright. If available locally, try the Perzina, Hailun, Ritmuller, Brodmann, Heintzman (and others) baby grands.

[michael_c]

For that budget you could get an excellent secondhand grand. That would be the option that gives you the most value for money. Secondhand grands are often undervalued, since so many buyers are wary of them and think they absolutely need a brand new one.

If you yourself are set on buying a new piano, I'd say the K500 is a very good choice. It will give you much more musical satisfaction than the Clavinova.

[quantum]

You may be able to get a lot more piano for the money if you are willing to step outside the well known brands.  From what you have written, I'm not sure you would be happy with even the top digital pianos - you are yearning for an acoustic.  

Agree with michael_c's suggestion.  A second hand grand will give you the action and response you are looking for and allow you to stay in budget.  Bring in a good piano tech to voice and regulate, and you've got yourself a good low cost piano that will serve for many years.

Don't get too hung up on brand new models from well known makers.  I've played a number of brand new RX series pianos that were delivered to universities which were non-preped.  Awful presentation of potential instruments.  They played and sounded like bargain basement material.  Many people ignored them and selected the 30 year old beat up pianos instead.  Proper preparation of the instrument is essential, and can make or break the experience of playing one - name isn't everything.  

For your situation, a second hand piano with thorough work by a skilled tech can make the most of your budget.  If you know what you want in a piano, selecting among second hand instruments should not be too difficult. 

[dddddmajor]

I really appreciate for advice, Cydonia, Michael_c and quantum!
I do agree that second-hand grands are way better than the others! So I've gone through trade me and musicwarehouse seeking for good baby grands, but there were none! Baby grands and grands were simply beat-ups(And new grands cost like 30000NZD), they were the ones you might find in the flea market. I was kinda expecting a grand over 5' with polished ebony, but seems like they didn't know how to make black pianos before WW II.

Although the majority of the pianos were literally junks, I picked three pianos that are kinda new compared to the pianos that are older than my parents
First, there's this Weinbach(Never heard of it  ) piano, which was bought by the seller in 1972
https://www.trademe.co.nz/music-instruments/instruments/keyboards-piano/grand-pianos/auction-1026881639.htm

then, there's this Yamaha G2, serial no.E1893301 with a wood finish(Why don't they ever buy a black piano?)
https://www.trademe.co.nz/music-instruments/instruments/keyboards-piano/grand-pianos/auction-1022952823.htm

lastly, there's this Yamaha C3 in polished ebony, when I first saw it, I was like "Ok I should buy this one", but I'm not entirely sure about this one, since the seller says it's 1800mm long, which is wrong because C3's supposed to be 6' 1"(186cm) conservatory grand. It might be a trap! 6cm in piano is really crucial
https://www.trademe.co.nz/music-instruments/instruments/keyboards-piano/grand-pianos/auction-1026891458.htm

Which one should I choose out of these three pianos? I think buying a C3 with 15000NZD is a good deal, but I should ask the seller if it really is C3, since he says it's 180cm long. Also, the Kawai Rx-3
( https://www.trademe.co.nz/music-instruments/instruments/keyboards-piano/grand-pianos/auction-1023806721.htm ) costs the same, but it is newer.

[ianzilla]

do you have any videos or audio of you playing torrent at tempo 182 or flight of the bumblebee? I'm curious to hear your playing!

[dddddmajor]

do you have any videos or audio of you playing torrent at tempo 182 or flight of the bumblebee? I'm curious to hear your playing!

I'm sorry, but I sold my P-115 piano to buy a new piano and my hands are having a break after  "intense 7 hour practice routine". but I can assure you that I can play them because I'm an Asian, hehe. However, I never thought of recording my playings because I was always playing with my headphones on, I'll try to record(I don't even have a camcorder, though, so I'd have to use my phone cam) As Soon As I choose what piano to buy and build my own soundproofed room.

[quantum]

Which ever piano you end up selecting, you need to see and play in person before ever making the final choice.  Looking at web ads is fine for searching what is out there, but at the end of the day you need to play it.  Spec sheets don't tell you if you will like the touch, tone, or voicing of the instrument.  

Once you have a rough idea that you are interested in a particular instrument, the next step is to hire a piano tech to check out the instrument.  Make sure it is a piano tech that you trust, and not one provided by the seller.  The tech will give you a report on the technical condition of the piano, any potential problems, and an estimate of its value.  You can use this report to further negotiate the price.  


When working with a budget you need to prioritize your needs, and recognize where compromises can be made.  You might not find that perfect piano, but you can get very close.  For example, is the colour of the piano that important to you?  How much do you value touch and tone versus case aesthetics.  

All the ones you have linked look like decent instruments.  If the 15k is in your budget the C3 or RX3 are the longest instruments.  The are well respected models.  You may be able to negotiate the price down, so don't take the ad literally.  If you want to save more money, nothing wrong with checking out the other two.  You need to see them in person.

Yamaha did incremental updates on the C series without changing model numbers, so don't assume this particular C3 will be exactly like any others you encounter.  The clue is in the serial number.  Be aware of this when comparing to official specs as some things may be different.

I wouldn't be too worried about errors in measurement stated in the ad.  The owner may have done their own measurement at different points than were used in the official spec sheet.  You will need to see the instrument in person anyways, and can do your own measurement.