A human can be as exact as a metronome?. help!

[rovis77]

Im playing the ocean etude by Chopin since a month ago and I tend to record some parts and compare them to a metronome to check how exact my timing is. For example: some times I record the first 8 measures of the piece and it goes even with the metronome for a few measures but then I unintentionally move the tempo for +- 1 bpm, so I go from matching the metronome at 85 bpm to 86 bpm and obviously when i get to 86bpm my recording no longer matches the metronome. Is this little difference in tempo of 1-2 bpm something to worry about?, how can I correct it?. A human can be as exact as a metronome?. This issue is worrying me

[lostinidlewonder]

Who told you humans should play metronome perfect?

[rovis77]

obviously all the piece doesn't go at the same tempo like a robot but obviously some sections should go solid in tempo.

[adodd81802]

Im playing the ocean etude by Chopin since a month ago and I tend to record some parts and compare them to a metronome to check how exact my timing is. For example: some times I record the first 8 measures of the piece and it goes even with the metronome for a few measures but then I unintentionally move the tempo for +- 1 bpm, so I go from matching the metronome at 85 bpm to 86 bpm and obviously when i get to 86bpm my recording no longer matches the metronome. Is this little difference in tempo of 1-2 bpm something to worry about?, how can I correct it?. A human can be as exact as a metronome?. This issue is worrying me

Jesus how do you sleep at night with such problems.

I hope you read this post back and realize just how silly it sounds.

Answer - NO. it makes no such difference and I don't quite understand why you're doing it that way around anyway. The metronome isn't there to make sure you're
A- hitting the exact tempo
B- playing the same tempo...

It's there to ensure you can play at a minimum tempo, so you can identify parts you may be struggling with. (in my opinion)

"Ocean" Etude, like many Chopin Etude's are quite dramatic, and so I wouldn't be surprised if it was appropriate to increase tempo slightly anyway.

[dcstudio]

there is a very simple solution... practice with the metronome ticking...  A LOT

if you are unable to play with the metronome while it is ticking... that is something to worry about.   Are you  recording at all with the metronome or do you always just play 8 bars and then compare it?   


The point of the metronome is to teach you to have good time.   It won't work though unless you spend a good bit of time with that infernal beep ringing in your ears as you play.   Yes you can be as exact as the metronome... you really don't want to perform a piece with the exact beat of the click track but you should be able to PLAY it that way.

After a good bit of regular metronome practice your "inner clock" will come on and really solidify your ability to keep a steady tempo.

[rovis77]

I can play perfectly along with the metronome but my question is that if it is normal that my timing varies +-2 bpm without the metronome?

[anamnesis]

I can play perfectly along with the metronome but my question is that if it is normal that my timing varies +-2 bpm without the metronome?

The real questions should be: Are such small differences perceptible to even the most skilled of listeners?  Why do listeners require a relative steady tempo to enhance their perception of music?  Are there times when ultra-strict tempos actually distort the perception of the music for the listener? 

[rovis77]

more answers are welcomed

[pianocat3]

I'm thinking you can record yourself and listen and also clap the beat and see if you can tell.

[lustercrush]

My guess is that most performances of this piece would have changes in tempo of more than +-2 bpm. Unless you frequently make sudden changes of +-2 bpm or more it will go unnoticed.

[pianocat3]

That may even be the cause of the tempo change. I know I naturally play some parts at a different tempo, i.e. dramatic parts, I tend to speed up. I do use a metronome to some extent.

[lostinidlewonder]

If you are super worried about this you can post a snippet of your playing and see if others feel your microscopic tempo changes effects their listening experience or not. I'd bet that no one would find it a large enough factor to interrupt them. Have you ever applied your metronome to professional recordings you respect? Let us know of any that fit your perfect metronome ideology.

[dcstudio]

I can play perfectly along with the metronome but my question is that if it is normal that my timing varies +-2 bpm without the metronome?

actually you should be able to not vary the tempo at all.   my professor would say there is only one tempo and that is the one you count off at the start.  Usually it is because of distractions or you are trying to sound like a specific version you are used to hearing that this happens.  Try just looking at the flashing light on the metronome if you have an electric one--turn the sound off--that will help you silently keep time in your head.  Really, any ritard, fermata, accelerando, etc is going to prevent the metronome from clicking on the beat from start to finish.. but it is very necessary to have an absolutely solid sense of time and tempo nonetheless.

away from the piano try singing with the metronome clicking then turn it off but continue singing on beat--after a few seconds turn the sound on and see if you are still singing in time.

[indianajo]

one or two bpm variation is a something that science can detect, but is not IMHO important to art.
Everybody has a steady rhythm circuit in their brain.  That is how we walk on two feet without falling down.  We learn to do that age two, so it is not inherently difficult to walk in steady rhythm.  Connecting that rhythm circuit to the hands is the trick.  So much blather in books about the heartbeat.  My heartbeat varies all over with emotion and stess, but  the rhythm of my feet when I am on a  walk does not.   Learn to hook up the rhythm circuits in  your brain to your hands.  
I have a metronome, but the wind up Seth Thomas decoration stops after two or three minutes.  That is fine, I never had a teacher that complained about my sense of rhythm.  I found the connection in the brain early.  I just use the metronome to find out that Beethoven and later composers thought their pieces should sound like.  
Just be aware that the student temptation to slow down on the hard parts, and speed up on the easy parts, is laughable and inartistic.  The trick is to find out what the speed of the hard part is today, then play everything else about that speed.  Slowing down and speeding up for emotional reasons are still allowed, if you keep the speed below this "I can go this fast" limit on the piece. 

[darkpisces]

I play this piece and I can manage the metronome about 140bpm with a steady tempo, give or take 1, 2 or a few bpm on a few shape changes or something. With something much easier I could be on tempo pretty much exact. But why would I waste time on things like this when I should be focusing on practicing? Metronomes will keep you at bay so that you don't drift, it's not for being on the exact bpm throughout the whole piece.

Not only is this boring and robotic, not only should there be natural tempo changes when you play, but you'd be wasting your time, as even if you were exactly on bpm, in terms of milli-milli seconds, you'll never be! It's used for a good bases of timing and practicing keeping in time